Gun Thread

[NewAgeOfPower]

The .223 Remington/5.56 NATO, 7.62 WP, .30-06 Springfield and .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO are all rifle rounds. However, all of them have been fired out of 'pistol' conversions,

Most famously, 5.56 NATO out of AR-15 style pistols, 7.62 WP out of AK-Pistols, 7.62 NATO out of R700 pistol conversions (they exists... my eyes...) and last but not least, the .30-06 Springfield from a Thompson Contender by Emiya Kiritsugu.

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Apparently there's a guy in the US that occasionally shoots down model airplanes with an AA gun.

I think that's the biggest functional privately owned weapon I've heard of...

Someone on TheHighRoad from Switzerland owned a bunch of REAL assault rifles, and even a flamethrower.

He told us some people in Switzerland even owned private Tank Destroyers! Of course, I doubt they go practice shooting at live tanks, mind you...

[Vigilantia]

So originally, I figured if I ever went to 'MERICA! an actually lived there due to perhaps getting a job there, I might get a sidearm for personal defense. I'm kind of set on a higher powered cartridge for better stopping power. I'm set on the Sig Sauer P226 with .40 S&W. Yes it has a smaller magazine with the .40 round but the way I see it, if I need the additional bullets provided by 9mm bullets in a home invasion, I need to aim better or I'm fighting more than one invader.

Of course, with that thought comes bullet penetration. Any worries from our fellow BL Americans that firing that AR-15 might also kill the guy in the next house drinking late night coffee? (yes, I actually care about that stuff)

[Bittersweet]

Heck yeah .40! :3

[SeiKeo]

Of course, with that thought comes bullet penetration. Any worries from our fellow BL Americans that firing that AR-15 might also kill the guy in the next house drinking late night coffee? (yes, I actually care about that stuff)

Any real gun will overpenetrate any building that isn't old and made out of solid oak or pine or the like. Unless you go with shotgun, you just have to hope.

[NewAgeOfPower]

So originally, I figured if I ever went to 'MERICA! an actually lived there due to perhaps getting a job there, I might get a sidearm for personal defense. I'm kind of set on a higher powered cartridge for better stopping power. I'm set on the Sig Sauer P226 with .40 S&W. Yes it has a smaller magazine with the .40 round but the way I see it, if I need the additional bullets provided by 9mm bullets in a home invasion, I need to aim better or I'm fighting more than one invader.

Of course, with that thought comes bullet penetration. Any worries from our fellow BL Americans that firing that AR-15 might also kill the guy in the next house drinking late night coffee? (yes, I actually care about that stuff)

If you live outside of a major Urban Center, the .223 is fine for home defense. Check Box of Truth (google) for actual penetration testing, where a bunch of good old hicks got together and shot wallboard, water bottles, etc for testing purposes.

If you live inside a major urban center (that doesn't miraculously ban firearms) consider Glaser safety ammunition. Breaks up very quickly.

Anecdotal reports say that the .40 S&W has a very sharp kick in comparison to 9MM and .45 ACP, and a reputation for blowing up guns. A look at the chamber pressures generated by these cartridges indicates that the .40 S&W generates pressure higher than 9mm P+.

[Strange_One]

Aye, I've heard about privately owned armoured vehicles and some of their rampages, but I'm not sure any of them have live weapons tho 0.o

Unless maybe Afghanistan or somewhere where proof of ownership isn't such a big thing...


For my I wanna be an American moment I'm actually not sure at the moment for a self defense item. Something compact for carry in .40 or 9mm.
If I were collecting/playing, there'd be a lot I would go for. 8)
As for penetration, isn't a lot of architecture over there wood or plaster? I think even for pistols you'd have to buy actual low penetration or deflection type bullets to minimise risk.

Does anyone bother making a low penetration .223 round?

[NewAgeOfPower]

Any real gun will overpenetrate any building that isn't old and made out of solid oak or pine or the like. Unless you go with shotgun, you just have to hope.

Even shotgun buckshot will penetrate ~6 layers of drywall (Box of Truth). You need something heavier than birdshot to kill/incapacitate human beings reliably, however.

Outside of an urban center, velocity after penetrating even 2 layers of drywall will have been diminshed sufficiently the round will have a dramatic falloff, drastically reducing the chance it will even get to another house.

[SeiKeo]

Aye, I've heard about privately owned armoured vehicles and some of their rampages, but I'm not sure any of them have live weapons tho 0.o

You can own and operate a tank perfectly legally: you'd have to register each individual shell as a destructive device but that's the chops.

Does anyone bother making a low penetration .223 round?

Does anyone make a bullet that isn't supposed to go through people?

[NewAgeOfPower]

Aye, I've heard about privately owned armoured vehicles and some of their rampages, but I'm not sure any of them have live weapons tho 0.o

Some dude in West Coast got fed up with bullshit bureaucracy he felt was eating his business and livelihood, welded up a bulldozer in home-made composite armor, which he fabricated by sandwiching 2 inch thick 1040 steel plates with a 4 inch gap, and filling the gap with concrete.

He inflicted 0 casualties but over $10 million in property damage. He committed suicide after getting stuck in a basement.

Does anyone bother making a low penetration .223 round?

Yes.

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You can own and operate a tank perfectly legally: you'd have to register each individual shell as a destructive device but that's the chops.

Try getting the government to sell you an tank in the first place *sniff*

Does anyone make a bullet that isn't supposed to go through people?

Range purposes, training purposes. Early EPA-compliant army 'leadless' ammo was notorious for its fragmentation, spalling, and shitty penetration.

Glaser ammunition supposedly breaks up quickly to prevent over-penetration and ricocheting rounds, but gel testing indicates a substandard level of penetration in flesh. The wound cavities produced, though, are truly, truly horrific.

[Bittersweet]

If you live inside a major urban center (that doesn't miraculously ban firearms) consider Glaser safety ammunition. Breaks up very quickly.

Yay for frangible ammo!

Anecdotal reports say that the .40 S&W has a very sharp kick in comparison to 9MM and .45 ACP, and a reputation for blowing up guns. A look at the chamber pressures generated by these cartridges indicates that the .40 S&W generates pressure higher than 9mm P+.

Nah, it's fine. Are you sure you aren't thinking of 10mm, which .40 was competing with? 10mm was known to be harsh to use but underpowered.

[SeiKeo]

Try getting the government to sell you an tank in the first place *sniff*

Why would you have to buy from the US government :V

Range purposes, training purposes. Early EPA-compliant army 'leadless' ammo was notorious for its fragmentation, spalling, and shitty penetration.

Glaser ammunition supposedly breaks up quickly to prevent over-penetration and ricocheting rounds, but gel testing indicates a substandard level of penetration in flesh. The wound cavities produced, though, are truly, truly horrific.

Fair dos on the glaser, although iirc that costs an arm and a leg?

[Bittersweet]

Does anyone make a bullet that isn't supposed to go through people?

Hydra shock and frangible bullets, you goof! ^_^

[SeiKeo]

Okay I admit defeat in an ill-considered rhetorical question >_>

[Bittersweet]

*Bites Leo*

[NewAgeOfPower]

Nah, it's fine. Are you sure you aren't thinking of 10mm, which .40 was competing with? 10mm was known to be harsh to use but underpowered.

10mm was reported to exceed FBI penetration and wound cavity standards in every aspect, but was too harsh to use.

Here are some anecdotal .40 S&W Kabooms (gun-nut speak for asploded guns)

http://forum.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=1828857
http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.p...58-sti-kaboom/
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloadi...m-warning.html

Here is a list of Maximum Chamber Pressures:

.40 S&W 35,000 psi (240 MPa)

9mm Para 34,100 psi (235 MPa)

.45 ACP 21,000 psi (140 MPa)

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Why would you have to buy from the US government :V

Fair dos on the glaser, although iirc that costs an arm and a leg?

Where else are you going to buy an M1 Abrams? IIRC, they sold a few M60s to civillians before, but stopped that shit around the same time they closed the NFA registry.

Glaser ammo is not practice ammo, no... it approaches good match ammo in terms of price.

[SeiKeo]

Where else are you going to buy an M1 Abrams? IIRC, they sold a few M60s to civillians before, but stopped that shit around the same time they closed the NFA registry.

Is the only tank in the world you want to buy an Abrams?

[Strange_One]

I heard about some guy went loco. Very slowly drove around crushing people's houses. Followed very slowly by police because they coulnd't do shit.

Then he stalled. And the cops jumped the APC ^_^

Does anyone make a bullet that isn't supposed to go through people?

Simunition baby!

pewpewpew

Nah, it's fine. Are you sure you aren't thinking of 10mm, which .40 was competing with? 10mm was known to be harsh to use but underpowered.

Hm? I thought people who liked the 10mm liked it because of its power.

I think the .40 did have kB problems in earlier gun but I thought that was sorted years ago gunsmith side.

[Bittersweet]

I meant that 10mm was underpowered compared to the amount of recoil it had. But then, I've never used one. It's pretty uncommon because of this.

All I know is that my .40 has never exploded and it's fun to use. I love my 40! ^_^

[NewAgeOfPower]

Is the only tank in the world you want to buy an Abrams?

I prefer the LeopardBear Leopard Mk 2... ;p

I'd really REALLY like the Merkava IV, much more than Abrams. Chances of getting the Israeli government to sell you one... Also 0.

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I meant that 10mm was underpowered compared to it's harshness of use.

All I know is that my .40 has never exploded and it's fun to use. I love my 40! ^_^

You probably don't train for IPSC/Three-gun and shoot 20,000 rounds through it every year...

[Vigilantia]

I meant that 10mm was underpowered compared to the amount of recoil it had. But then, I've never used one. It's pretty uncommon because of this.

All I know is that my .40 has never exploded and it's fun to use. I love my 40! ^_^

Well, supposedly, the 9mm requires several bullets into a high/intoxicated person before they go down. That's the reason you might want higher caliber weapons.

Also, a bullet that doesn't go through people... I think hollowpoint rounds did that but weren't they made illegal?