Fate/strange fake (Free-Range Spoilers)

[Iceblade44]

That Apo Jack is an actual part of the legend rather than an artificial emodiment of said legend (specifically its unsolved mystery aspect) that only came into existence due to the flawed nature of the summoning ritual (seriously, using a modern toy as your catalyst? That's just asking for the ritual to get fucked over!) is actually an even stronger argument for her to have an equivalent of SF Jack's NPs. Compare how the Vlad Tepes who featured in Apocrypha has the whole "Count Dracula the vampire = Vlad Tepes of Wallachia" deal as an actual NP that turns him into Count Dracula, and how Extra's Vlad (who is somehow a totally different guy from Apo Vlad) also has a skill with a similar effect. And the Hassan-i Sabbah Assassins were all actual people both IRL and in-universe, and yet their identities are so unknown in-universe that it causes their Servant selves to lack almost anything related to said identities, retaining only what knowledge, skills and abilities they acquired/possessed that are relevant for a Servant to have.

One, Apo Jack wasn't summoned by toy daggers, that was SF Jack, she was summoned with the actual daggers she had used in life. Two, she didn't come into existence because of the summoning ritual, that again was SF Jack. She actually did exist, as a living embodiment of unborn children yes, but she actually did live. She killed people, she died, she existed. The thing about Vlad is both interations are the same guy, just like normal HS they have different aspects of them brought to the front. The aspect of a king for Apo, and the aspect if a warrior for Extra.

What curse?

What she did when she died I assume, her nightmare.

By "hell that Apo Jack makes" and "dream of Jack", are you referring to her past life as a street urchin on a futile quest to find a "mother" of her own, which is first glimpsed through Reika dreaming about it the first time she went to sleep following her becoming Jack's Master?

No I'm talking about the hell SF makes with his Noble Phantasm compared to the hell Apo Jack made when she was killed by Atalanta.

[jennajayfeather]

That Apo Jack is an actual part of the legend rather than an artificial emodiment of said legend (specifically its unsolved mystery aspect) that only came into existence due to the flawed nature of the summoning ritual (seriously, using a modern toy as your catalyst? olved mystery aspect) that only came into existence due to the flawed nature of the summoning ritual (seriously, using a modern toy as your catalyst? That's just asking for the ritual to get fucked over!) is actually an even stronger argument for her to have an equivalent of SF Jack's NPs.

Okay I get what you're saying here now. You're saying that because Jackie is closer to the genuine article, that it would make sense for her to have those abilities too.

I disagree.

If we look at when SF!Jack was summoned:

The knife Flatt held was not a true relic, but rather, an imitation.
But where that Heroic Spirit was concerned—
It could draw forth a much more powerful spirit, precisely because it, like the Heroic Spirit, was an imitation designed for public consumption.

I saw a joke once that called Jack a 'living mass of memes' and honestly that's what I think of him as. People's imagination/sensation/fear of JTR spread throughout the human population. SF!Jack wasn't anyone--he is, in a sense, born from the aftermath of the killer. Jackie being someone in life, that could have very well been the real Ripper, makes her a more "condensed" version of JTR.

Also there's the fact that her skills & NP were designed waaaaaaay before SF!Jack's were.

Anyway, I do like that they keep them separate entities though. Being a fan of both Jacks I like to see them unique from each other.

[MarqFJA87]

One, Apo Jack wasn't summoned by toy daggers, that was SF Jack, she was summoned with the actual daggers she had used in life. Two, she didn't come into existence because of the summoning ritual, that again was SF Jack. She actually did exist, as a living embodiment of unborn children yes, but she actually did live. She killed people, she died, she existed.

I know all that. And I don't know you managed to misunderstand what I wrote the way you're doing.

The thing about Vlad is both interations are the same guy, just like normal HS they have different aspects of them brought to the front. The aspect of a king for Apo, and the aspect if a warrior for Extra.

... And this is relevant, how? You're not addressing the fact that they both have an NP/skill that derives from a purely fictitious story that even in-universe is not really true (i.e. Nasuverse's Vlad Tepes has no actual connection at all with Bram Stoker's Dracula, it's purely the invention of post-Stoker writers and the Dracula fandom), yet it's widely believed to be true that it actually affected the definitely-real Heroic Spirit. And Apo Vlad hates that, incidentally.

What she did when she died I assume, her nightmare.

No I'm talking about the hell SF makes with his Noble Phantasm compared to the hell Apo Jack made when she was killed by Atalanta.

Oh, that's what you meant.

Okay I get what you're saying here now. You're saying that because Jackie is closer to the genuine article, that it would make sense for her to have those abilities too.

I disagree.

If we look at when SF!Jack was summoned:


I saw a joke once that called Jack a 'living mass of memes' and honestly that's what I think of him as. People's imagination/sensation/fear of JTR spread throughout the human population. SF!Jack wasn't anyone--he is, in a sense, born from the aftermath of the killer. Jackie being someone in life, that could have very well been the real Ripper, makes her a more "condensed" version of JTR.

I don't see how her being a "more 'condensed' version of JTR" as you call it precludes her being affected by the legend, fear and mystery surrounding the murders that she may or may not be connected to (Apo!Jack certainly seems certain that she's the genuine JTR when she's asked who she is by Hyouma right after being summoned). See the example of Vlad Tepes for what I mean, specifically the Legend of Dracula NP (for Apo!Vlad) and Innocent Monster skill (for Extra!Vlad).

Also there's the fact that her skills & NP were designed waaaaaaay before SF!Jack's were.

... I thought that SF!Jack's abilities were only truly fleshed out when Fate/strange fake was finally picked up again by Type-Moon after being seemingly stuck in a hiatus (at least, this is how I remember it), years after the Apo concepts were revealed in Fate/complete material IV.

Anyway, I do like that they keep them separate entities though. Being a fan of both Jacks I like to see them unique from each other.

You can add equivalents of those two NPs to Apo Jack while still keeping her unique; I never said it has to be a copy-paste. Hell, SF!Jack itself has a modified version of Apo!Jack's Murderer of the Misty Night skill, named "Wanderer of the Misty Night", which "grants an equal rank of Presence Concealment as long as it is night" instead of "permitting a pre-emptive strike against all opponents with unconditional success at night" (the latter is noted to syngerize excellently with the Presence Concealment class skill that Apo!Jack has, as it compensates for a crucial weakness in the latter).

[pinetree]

You're thinking way too hard abut this, Assassin Jack was written and she had the abilities fitting Jack the Ripper because that's what she's about, then they wrote Berserker Jack and he has a bunch of conceptual stuff about Jack's legend because that's what he's about. They were created by different writers with different concepts in mind.

[castor212]

Something2 class is a factor too in deciding what toys you get something2

Not for the first time Servants with same name ended up with different toys in different class.

[jennajayfeather]

You can add equivalents of those two NPs to Apo Jack while still keeping her unique; I never said it has to be a copy-paste. Hell, SF!Jack itself has a modified version of Apo!Jack's Murderer of the Misty Night skill, named "Wanderer of the Misty Night", which "grants an equal rank of Presence Concealment as long as it is night" instead of "permitting a pre-emptive strike against all opponents with unconditional success at night" (the latter is noted to syngerize excellently with the Presence Concealment class skill that Apo!Jack has, as it compensates for a crucial weakness in the latter).

Why though? I mean, they already have that shared skill & SF!Jack’s already turned into her a few times. I think there’s more than enough references to express the link towards each other. The contrast between their respective Hells was a nice callback too.

There’s like a million things that could, lore-wise, be the answer (like Castor said with classes)

It’s really not deep nor would I call it a missed opportunity on Jackie’s part. Like others were saying, they were designed by different people and they had different things in mind for the characters.

[Iceblade44]

I know all that. And I don't know you managed to misunderstand what I wrote the way you're doing.

The way you said it made me think otherwise, my apologies.

... And this is relevant, how? You're not addressing the fact that they both have an NP/skill that derives from a purely fictitious story that even in-universe is not really true (i.e. Nasuverse's Vlad Tepes has no actual connection at all with Bram Stoker's Dracula, it's purely the invention of post-Stoker writers and the Dracula fandom), yet it's widely believed to be true that it actually affected the definitely-real Heroic Spirit. And Apo Vlad hates that, incidentally.

I was just commenting on the apparently he's totally different guy in your post, with me explaining why that is.

I don't see how her being a "more 'condensed' version of JTR" as you call it precludes her being affected by the legend, fear and mystery surrounding the murders that she may or may not be connected to (Apo!Jack certainly seems certain that she's the genuine JTR when she's asked who she is by Hyouma right after being summoned). See the example of Vlad Tepes for what I mean, specifically the Legend of Dracula NP (for Apo!Vlad) and Innocent Monster skill (for Extra!Vlad).

She has already been influence by the legend of Jack the Ripper, see Information Erasure. The problem is tho the reason she doesn't have anything that SF Jack is simply nothing of it actual makes sense for her to have. She wouldn't Thousand Faces because shes not the embodiment of theories that SF Jack is for example. Most of SF Jacks abilities revolve around the mystery around Jack the Ripper, thats why he has them but they wouldn't fit Apo Jack because her existence operates differently then his.

You can add equivalents of those two NPs to Apo Jack while still keeping her unique; I never said it has to be a copy-paste. Hell, SF!Jack itself has a modified version of Apo!Jack's Murderer of the Misty Night skill, named "Wanderer of the Misty Night", which "grants an equal rank of Presence Concealment as long as it is night" instead of "permitting a pre-emptive strike against all opponents with unconditional success at night" (the latter is noted to syngerize excellently with the Presence Concealment class skill that Apo!Jack has, as it compensates for a crucial weakness in the latter).

Not really. You have to look at the idea behind those NPs, they are based on theories. One is "Was Jack the Ripper a demon?" and the other "Was Jack the Ripper a group of people?". They don't work because they are based on "What ifs" while Jack herself is an actual theory herself, that is "Was Jack the Ripper a wraith made by the grudges of unborn children". She already is a "What if" so it wouldn't make sense for her to be influenced or gaining abilities about other "What ifs"

As for Wanderer of the Misty Night, yes it makes sense for SF Jack to have that, given his nature having an ability towards the legendary stealth of Jack the Ripper that caught all his targets unaware. Apo Jack has that, not only an improved version as well, because as a possibility of Jack the Ripper thats something she actually did, while SF's is more general and gets it just because as the mystery of JtR it makes sense for him to but weaker because he actually didn't do the murders,, or thats my thoughts on it

- - - Updated - - -

Something2 class is a factor too in deciding what toys you get something2

Not for the first time Servants with same name ended up with different toys in different class.

Except they aren't the same person, and we know what Apo Jack gets as a Berserker if i remember. Mist always active with her constantly going around stabbing people or something along those lines.

[castor212]

Except they aren't the same person.

Making it less weird and more sense that they dont get same toys even if they have same name.

we know what Apo Jack gets as a Berserker if i remember. Mist always active with her constantly going around stabbing people or something along those lines.

Thats from complete material IV.
The legitimized, retconned version of Apo has no such entry.

[Iceblade44]

True, tho I forget. Didn't Jack's FGO Mat entry had something about her in the Berserker class?

[jennajayfeather]

True, tho I forget. Didn't Jack's FGO Mat entry had something about her in the Berserker class?

It talked about minus x minus so I really think it was a reference to SF!Jack

[MarqFJA87]

You're thinking way too hard abut this, Assassin Jack was written and she had the abilities fitting Jack the Ripper because that's what she's about, then they wrote Berserker Jack and he has a bunch of conceptual stuff about Jack's legend because that's what he's about. They were created by different writers with different concepts in mind.

There’s like a million things that could, lore-wise, be the answer (like Castor said with classes)

It’s really not deep nor would I call it a missed opportunity on Jackie’s part. Like others were saying, they were designed by different people and they had different things in mind for the characters.

See, that's part of the problem: A lack of consistency regarding established rules of the setting. It's fine when a rule is established and then the writer introduces a character that breaks said rule because they have an explicit in-universe reason that is logically sound (e.g. Gilgamesh breaks the maximum limit of three Noble Phantasms per Servant in the Fuyuki Holy Grail War's system through the loophole that is Gate of Babylon; technically speaking, he only has GoB, Enkidu and Enuma Elish listed as his NPs, with everything else being simply "contents of GoB").

And in anticipation of the most obvious question, the rule (or what I perceive to be such from what I've seen from the lore) that I've been talking about regarding this topic is that a Servant can benefit from stuff that's been tacked on to their legend in modern times if the belief in that stuff is "sufficiently" popular. Of course, how you define "sufficiently" is a different topic altogether, and one which in all likelihood may not have a single right answer anyway; it's not like we have access to every detail of how the metaphysics of the Nasuverse works, right?

She has already been influence by the legend of Jack the Ripper, see Information Erasure.

Information Erasure only derives from the fact that JTR always managed to elude being even sighted at the scene of his/her crimes, and replicates the effect when she disengages from a battle and flees by retroactively erasing any memory of her true name, appearance and abilities from the minds of any and all witnesses (even from camera recordings), leaving only what "evidence" may or may not have been left at the scene of battle (from which Jack's identity could possibly be deduced) and - based on how specific the description is about what gets erased - the witnesses' knowledge of whether or not the assailant was a Servant (and if so, what class they were).

Thousand Faces derives from the entirety of JTR's mysterious nature, and honestly is so optimized for stealthiness that it's far more appropiate for an Assassin rather than a Berserker, given that it actually disguises the Servant as something/someone that may not even look remotely like a Servant (could even be an inanimate object). In fact, now that I think about it, if I somehow had the power to call the shots on Apo Jack's and SF Jack's respective designs, I would've swapped around Information Erasure and Thousand Faces. Information Erasure is general enough in its utility that I would have no qualms about a Berserker JTR having it. At least Zero Berserker having a perfect disguise NP makes sense because it's technically something that his non-Berserker self made extensive use of, and the actual disguising only properly works when a Command Seal is used (it otherwise simply masks anything in his physical appearance and parameters that could be used to identify him).

The problem is tho the reason she doesn't have anything that SF Jack is simply nothing of it actual makes sense for her to have. She wouldn't Thousand Faces because shes not the embodiment of theories that SF Jack is for example. Most of SF Jacks abilities revolve around the mystery around Jack the Ripper, thats why he has them but they wouldn't fit Apo Jack because her existence operates differently then his.


Not really. You have to look at the idea behind those NPs, they are based on theories. One is "Was Jack the Ripper a demon?" and the other "Was Jack the Ripper a group of people?". They don't work because they are based on "What ifs" while Jack herself is an actual theory herself, that is "Was Jack the Ripper a wraith made by the grudges of unborn children". She already is a "What if" so it wouldn't make sense for her to be influenced or gaining abilities about other "What ifs"

As for Wanderer of the Misty Night, yes it makes sense for SF Jack to have that, given his nature having an ability towards the legendary stealth of Jack the Ripper that caught all his targets unaware. Apo Jack has that, not only an improved version as well, because as a possibility of Jack the Ripper thats something she actually did, while SF's is more general and gets it just because as the mystery of JtR it makes sense for him to but weaker because he actually didn't do the murders,, or thats my thoughts on it

And my thoughts on it is that if both incarnations of Vlad Tepes gets to benefit from the Vampire Dracula connection even though he had nothing to do with it at all (all blame rests on Bram Stoker choosing "Dracula" as a name for his character just because, and later generations assuming without proper evidence that it was an intentional allusion to the historical figure), then Apo Jack ought get more or less the same benefits from the theories and mysteries around JTR that SF Jack gets, if not even moreso than SF Jack due to having actually existed in Victorian London around the time of JTR's murders and being a strong candidate for having committed said murders (if not the only possible candidate, if one only works with the Apocrypha timeline), whereas SF Jack is (AFAIK) strongly implied to be an artificial entity created ex nihilo using recorded knowledge of JTR as a base by Flatt's summoning ritual due to him using a modern toy rather than a more "professional" replication of a JTR-connected artifact.

Also, SF Jack isn't "an embodiment of all the theories about Jack the Ripper". He's "an embodiment of the mystery behind the legend of Jack the Ripper that was summoned using as a catalyst a modern-day toy knife that is claimed by its manufacturer to have been made in imitation of the knife/knives that JTR used in his infamous murders". That's the reason he's lacking in physical form: His catalyst is a completely artificial and arguably poor imitation of the real thing, so the summoner received a completely artificial imitation of the Heroic Spirit that he wanted to summon and which is arguably inferior as a substitute for a "genuine article" version like Apo Jack, because even his stats are dependent on what he imitates and all of the skills he acquires through his transformations are always downgraded to a measly rank of E (Apo Jack is only so abysmal with her Luck stat and her not-combat-oriented Surgical Procedure skill). His only saving grace are his NPs being well-suited for a Berserker-class Servant... and even then, they're dependent on the population density within a range of 5 km (at his worst, he's no stronger than a wild beast, which should be a cakewalk for any Heroic Spirit, except a truly pitiful one that's undeserving of the title like FHA's Avenger).

... BTW, I could've sworn there's at least one other Heroic Spirit besides Vlad that is similar to him in benefiting from things that are popularly attributed to his legend but which are actually modern inventions (You know how everyone thinks werewolves and vampires have been mortal enemies since time immemorial? That's actually dates back no earlier than 1991, when the World of Darkness RPG was born) instead of, say, part of the legend's gradual "evolution" in ancient times (cf. King Arthur's legend).

Except they aren't the same person, and we know what Apo Jack gets as a Berserker if i remember. Mist always active with her constantly going around stabbing people or something along those lines.

Thats from complete material IV.
The legitimized, retconned version of Apo has no such entry.

My headcanon is that said bit from the complete material IV profile still holds true, but only if you properly summon JTR using a genuine catalyst like Sagara Hyouma did (in his case, an actual knife - presumably looking like what you'd expect of a 19th century knife that has been relatively well-preserved for over a century - that is claimed to have been used by JTR; the claim could've been bogus, but I'm guessing the power of symbolism compensates for that as long as it's a real knife) and either the Grail decides a Berserker fits you best or you use the chant for specifically summoning a Berserker; that being said, the Assassin class is the one that is "ideal" for Apo Jack, as it offers her the greatest utility out of all her abilities, while the Berserker class's Mad Enhancement trades off almost all of that utility in exchange for a single-rank boost in most of her mostly-rather-average parameters. But if you use a "poor" substitute catalyst like a toy knife, then you'll get a similarly "poor" substitute for JTR in the form of an artificial entity (which may or may not be SF Jack, depending on the catalyst itself), rather than the actual JTR or even a wraith that sufficiently fulfills the requirements (as in the case of FSN's False Assassin, an in-universe real person filling in for an in-universe completely-fictitious person).

[castor212]

is this how you guys feel when you people see me thinking about something too hard

[Iceblade44]

See, that's part of the problem: A lack of consistency regarding established rules of the setting. It's fine when a rule is established and then the writer introduces a character that breaks said rule because they have an explicit in-universe reason that is logically sound (e.g. Gilgamesh breaks the maximum limit of three Noble Phantasms per Servant in the Fuyuki Holy Grail War's system through the loophole that is Gate of Babylon; technically speaking, he only has GoB, Enkidu and Enuma Elish listed as his NPs, with everything else being simply "contents of GoB").

a maximum 3 NPs I don't think was ever a rule, just a generalization. I mean in the story itself there seemed to have been a perceived maximum of 2 NPs but that was broken quickly. Gil was still an exception to the rule because no matter what it's insane to have unlimited NPs

Information Erasure only derives from the fact that JTR always managed to elude being even sighted at the scene of his/her crimes, and replicates the effect when she disengages from a battle and flees by retroactively erasing any memory of her true name, appearance and abilities from the minds of any and all witnesses (even from camera recordings), leaving only what "evidence" may or may not have been left at the scene of battle (from which Jack's identity could possibly be deduced) and - based on how specific the description is about what gets erased - the witnesses' knowledge of whether or not the assailant was a Servant (and if so, what class they were).

And how does that not indicate the influence of JtR? Jack's whole thing is that no one knows who he is, because of lack and mistreatment of evidence his identity was unknown. That forceful removal of information, Apo Jack gets it because of the mystery surrounding jack the ripper

Thousand Faces derives from the entirety of JTR's mysterious nature, and honestly is so optimized for stealthiness that it's far more appropiate for an Assassin rather than a Berserker, given that it actually disguises the Servant as something/someone that may not even look remotely like a Servant (could even be an inanimate object). In fact, now that I think about it, if I somehow had the power to call the shots on Apo Jack's and SF Jack's respective designs, I would've swapped around Information Erasure and Thousand Faces. Information Erasure is general enough in its utility that I would have no qualms about a Berserker JTR having it. At least Zero Berserker having a perfect disguise NP makes sense because it's technically something that his non-Berserker self made extensive use of, and the actual disguising only properly works when a Command Seal is used (it otherwise simply masks anything in his physical appearance and parameters that could be used to identify him).

Thousand Faces doesn't work like that, it's not because Jack the Rippers identity is unknown that he can disguise himself as anyone, it's not a disguise skill. It allows SF Jack to change into whatever there has been seen as a theory to Jack the Rippers identity. He can transform into a watch because their have been theories that Jack the Ripper could have been done because of the influence of a cursed item, he can give himself some form of divinity because there are theories that Jack the Ripper was because of the wrath of God, that sort of thing. Anything that has been seen that could have possibly been what Jack the Ripper actually was he can transform into him. It wouldn't fit Apo Jack because she is already one of those possibilities, So why would she be able to turn into other again "what ifs"?

And my thoughts on it is that if both incarnations of Vlad Tepes gets to benefit from the Vampire Dracula connection even though he had nothing to do with it at all (all blame rests on Bram Stoker choosing "Dracula" as a name for his character just because, and later generations assuming without proper evidence that it was an intentional allusion to the historical figure), then Apo Jack ought get more or less the same benefits from the theories and mysteries around JTR that SF Jack gets, if not even moreso than SF Jack due to having actually existed in Victorian London around the time of JTR's murders and being a strong candidate for having committed said murders (if not the only possible candidate, if one only works with the Apocrypha timeline), whereas SF Jack is (AFAIK) strongly implied to be an artificial entity created ex nihilo using recorded knowledge of JTR as a base by Flatt's summoning ritual due to him using a modern toy rather than a more "professional" replication of a JTR-connected artifact.

The reason why Jack isn't influenced that much by the mystery of Jack the Ripper? What is the mystery of Jack the Ripper? It's simple, no one knows who he was. That's why there are hundreds of theories of "who was Jack the Ripper?". How would that influence Jack, who herself is already an answer to that question. Information Erasure concealing her abilities is already enough, because that represents how Jack the Ripper remained unknown, anything more than that dealing with the popular theories of who was JtR wouldn't work, because again her existence is the answer for that

Also, SF Jack isn't "an embodiment of all the theories about Jack the Ripper". He's "an embodiment of the mystery behind the legend of Jack the Ripper that was summoned using as a catalyst a modern-day toy knife that is claimed by its manufacturer to have been made in imitation of the knife/knives that JTR used in his infamous murders". That's the reason he's lacking in physical form: His catalyst is a completely artificial and arguably poor imitation of the real thing, so the summoner received a completely artificial imitation of the Heroic Spirit that he wanted to summon and which is arguably inferior as a substitute for a "genuine article" version like Apo Jack, because even his stats are dependent on what he imitates and all of the skills he acquires through his transformations are always downgraded to a measly rank of E (Apo Jack is only so abysmal with her Luck stat and her not-combat-oriented Surgical Procedure skill). His only saving grace are his NPs being well-suited for a Berserker-class Servant... and even then, they're dependent on the population density within a range of 5 km (at his worst, he's no stronger than a wild beast, which should be a cakewalk for any Heroic Spirit, except a truly pitiful one that's undeserving of the title like FHA's Avenger).

The theories and mysteries are the same thing. SF Jack is the mysteries by embodying the theories. He is only able to transform into what has been a theory about Jack the Ripper. Anything thats to implausible he can't do it. Theories are merely answers towards the big question, the mystery of Jack the Ripper, Who was he? All SF abilities derive from abilities answering that. Apo's Jack's abilities do not, her abilities are simply stuff that "Jack the Ripper would have". The theorized surgery skills, her nature as a serial killer, a recreation of her murders as NP. Those are based on what Jack the Ripper actually did, SF Jack just focuses on what Jack the Ripper could possibly do, what he could possibly was. That's why he has his abilites.

This is what it seems to me, i'm probably in correct on a couple of things but this is the answers i found myself while reading apo and SF, it is what appears to be the case

- - - Updated - - -

is this how you guys feel when you people see me thinking about something too hard

Probably yeah.

We hurt ourselves like that

[castor212]

also Sha Naqba Imuru exist

simultaneously most powerful and most useless NP of Gil's yeahhhh

[Mcjon01]

is this how you guys feel when you people see me thinking about something too hard

Yeah, true nirvana comes from uncritically accepting all stated information at face value. Conflicting data is okay, everything is true. Don't try!

[jennajayfeather]

is this how you guys feel when you people see me thinking about something too hard

No it's not at all castor.

I'm like actually getting frustrated.

I somehow had the power to call the shots on Apo Jack's and SF Jack's respective designs, I would've swapped around Information Erasure and Thousand Faces.

Information Erasure is general enough in its utility that I would have no qualms about a Berserker JTR having it.

Maybe read the story, chill a bit, and realize that Strange Fake is about the weird and strange.

modern toy rather than a more "professional" replication of a JTR-connected artifact.

But if you use a "poor" substitute catalyst like a toy knife

Leave him alone he's already canonically embarrassed over this.

Also, SF Jack isn't "an embodiment of all the theories about Jack the Ripper". He's "an embodiment of the mystery behind the legend of Jack the Ripper that was summoned using as a catalyst a modern-day toy knife that is claimed by its manufacturer to have been made in imitation of the knife/knives that JTR used in his infamous murders".

That last one is a mouth full. Can we just call him "English Hell Slasher" instead?

[pinetree]

See, that's part of the problem: A lack of consistency regarding established rules of the setting. It's fine when a rule is established and then the writer introduces a character that breaks said rule because they have an explicit in-universe reason that is logically sound (e.g. Gilgamesh breaks the maximum limit of three Noble Phantasms per Servant in the Fuyuki Holy Grail War's system through the loophole that is Gate of Babylon; technically speaking, he only has GoB, Enkidu and Enuma Elish listed as his NPs, with everything else being simply "contents of GoB").

And in anticipation of the most obvious question, the rule (or what I perceive to be such from what I've seen from the lore) that I've been talking about regarding this topic is that a Servant can benefit from stuff that's been tacked on to their legend in modern times if the belief in that stuff is "sufficiently" popular. Of course, how you define "sufficiently" is a different topic altogether, and one which in all likelihood may not have a single right answer anyway; it's not like we have access to every detail of how the metaphysics of the Nasuverse works, right?

The "rule" is intentionally vague so that any writer can choose to utilize it in any way they want to, so that they can do their own interpretation of the character with few limitations. People already gave you reasonable lore justifications and they clearly aren't enough for you, so you'll just need to accept the meta reason of two writers deciding to write the same historical person into a servant with two different focus and ideas.

is this how you guys feel when you people see me thinking about something too hard

Nah, yours are usually fun to read and think about.

[higekiri]

Don't quote me much on this, but Anime Japan is holding some kinda poll to get manga and/or light novels animated if they aren't yet, and, surprisingly or perhaps not so, Strange Fake is in the list and can be voted for. Just click on 投票する, select Fate/Strange Fake in eighth (or not, if you found something you like much more in the massive list), and finally 送信する to process your vote.

Now we hope that, if SF really does get an anime this soon, it won't be anything like Apocrypha lol.

[pinetree]

Don't quote me much on this, but Anime Japan is holding some kinda poll to get manga and/or light novels animated if they aren't yet, and, surprisingly or perhaps not so, Strange Fake is in the list and can be voted for. Just click on 投票する, select Fate/Strange Fake in eighth (or not, if you found something you like much more in the massive list), and finally 送信する to process your vote.

Now we hope that, if SF really does get an anime this soon, it won't be anything like Apocrypha lol.

Huh, I wonder why turas realta is on the list but mortalis:stella isn't.

[Lord C]

Don't quote me much on this, but Anime Japan is holding some kinda poll to get manga and/or light novels animated if they aren't yet, and, surprisingly or perhaps not so, Strange Fake is in the list and can be voted for. Just click on 投票する, select Fate/Strange Fake in eighth (or not, if you found something you like much more in the massive list), and finally 送信する to process your vote.

Now we hope that, if SF really does get an anime this soon, it won't be anything like Apocrypha lol.

We can't get an anime soon because as much as we are four volumes into the story, aside battles here and there, we are still like 3 days into the story. They would need to put some sort of anime original ending and even then it would be best if we got another volume of content since Narita had to end volume 4 abruptly due to the sheer number of pages he wrote. As if that wasn't enough, they'd need a good director that can keep the informational exposure given by the narration, otherwise many things will be out of place. hell, look at Apocrypha: it wasn't that good, but they kept cutting off explanations and the characters thoughts that it end up even worse.