A broad order is something like "Obey me", or "Don't die" when they're not in immediate danger. A specifically worded order like "Fight but do not defeat the six other Servants" would still have a pretty powerful effect.
A broad order is something like "Obey me", or "Don't die" when they're not in immediate danger. A specifically worded order like "Fight but do not defeat the six other Servants" would still have a pretty powerful effect.
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But how could he possibly have known it would miss. It's a matter of luck, and just having rank B luck doesn't guarentee it will miss (otherwise it would be a totally shit NP).Originally Posted by eddyak
I didn't say it had no effect, I said that it couldn't stop him from using it entirely. Even someone like Rin probably couldn't make such a general order absolute, let alone Kotomine. His command spell limited Lancer's fighting ability and forced him to tend towards avoiding fighting to the death, but it didn't prevent it outright.You must really think Kotomine's an idiot, if you think he'd intentionally use a command seal that has no effect.
Also, recall that Kotomine has a ridiculous number of command spells (from Zero), and has no qualms whatsoever with using them (he uses them to cure Sakura in HF, almost certainly). So, it's not like using a command spell on Lancer just to slow him down a bit and to troll him is something that Kotomine would have a problem with.
Ah, OK. I wasn't sure that that was something that any servant couldn't have done.
I dunno if that applies to his heart being destroyed, mind....So, if he got KOed by Gae Bolg Rin could repair his heart.
Yeah, I think so.If he got KOed. Wasn't it said somewhere (Like CM3) that Archer would have gotten out of range for Gae Bolg or something bullshittish.
Indeed. Lancer's order was particularly bad because it had him do multiple things. Go scout the opposition and fight them. But don't go all out and don't kill them. Until his connection to Kotomine is broken, going against that order would have left him with a permanent reduction in ability. But not too terrible, because Kirei just isn't the mage that Rin is so we know one rank down in every parameter is beyond the penalty an order of his is capable of.
And I know Rin is a superior magus on the level of a genius, but I always thought Kotomine was supposed to be quite formidable. Note that I have not read Fate/Zero, so have none of that knowledge.
Is it just that Kotomine excels in healing, and is otherwise an average magus?
It wasn't up to Kotomine or Lancer, it was up to whatever system governs the Grail War and the Servants and the command spells.
If it can't prevent them from "entirely" killing the opponent, what was the point of using a command seal in the first place?I didn't say it had no effect, I said that it couldn't stop him from using it entirely. Even someone like Rin probably couldn't make such a general order absolute, let alone Kotomine. His command spell limited Lancer's fighting ability and forced him to tend towards avoiding fighting to the death, but it didn't prevent it outright.
And it's not like using more than one command spell to make the order concrete wasn't an option. Actually, the combat specialist Executor of the church wouldn't make such an amateurish mistake just to troll Lancer. Remember, this is the guy whose knowledge of the grail system is second only to Zouken.Also, recall that Kotomine has a ridiculous number of command spells (from Zero), and has no qualms whatsoever with using them (he uses them to cure Sakura in HF, almost certainly). So, it's not like using a command spell on Lancer just to slow him down a bit and to troll him is something that Kotomine would have a problem with.
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Below average actually. Healing is his only talent. A lot of Kotimine's being formidable is his training as an Executor of the church, killing magi without using magic in other words. We see him take out a magus and a gunwoman with just martial arts in Zero. And that was after being surprised and bound to a tree. He shattered the tree and then messed up Iri.
Yes, but it was pure luck. The Grail cannot know beforehand if Saber was going to survive or not.
Because it slows him down and, also, it makes his master's intentions quite clear, which makes it harder for Lancer to disobey.If it can't prevent them from "entirely" killing the opponent, what was the point of using a command seal in the first place?
True....And it's not like using more than one command spell to make the order concrete wasn't an option.
Yeah, but Kotomine doesn't actually care about Lancer. He's just trolling him. And, besides, so what if he does defeat an enemy servant? That just means one less servant for Gil to take down at the end.Actually, the combat specialist Executor of the church wouldn't make such an amateurish mistake just to troll Lancer. Remember, this is the guy whose knowledge of the grail system is second only to Zouken.
It's not Executioner?
And Jesus, Kotomine is a badass troll. Maybe I should actually read Zero.
Kotomine is a formidable fighter, not a formidable magus.
You should. It contains his best, most evil trolling on anybody.
The Grail's the one with the Servant stats, of course it knows whether Saber can survive.
Which is pointless if the Servant can go against the command anyway. *shrug*Because it slows him down and, also, it makes his master's intentions quite clear, which makes it harder for Lancer to disobey.
He cares about learning about the enemy Servants, though. Gil wouldn't go off on such a trivial task, and if Lancer dies, so be it. He didn't even care who wins the Grail in the first place- Gil can take care of himself.Yeah, but Kotomine doesn't actually care about Lancer. He's just trolling him. And, besides, so what if he does defeat an enemy servant? That just means one less servant for Gil to take down at the end.
FGO Supports
No, because it's not simply a case of "rank B luck means you avoid Gae Bolg, rank C means you die". If it were, then it would say so in the status page. It's down to pure chance whether you avoid it or not, and whilst the likelihood of you doing so varies according to your luck, there is no certainty that you will do so.
Not if it makes it harder.Which is pointless if the Servant can go against the command anyway. *shrug*
Yes, but Lancer killing one of them doesn't prevent him learning about the rest. He only attacked Saber because he had no alternative.He cares about learning about the enemy Servants, though.
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