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Thread: Heaven's Fall into Black Chaos

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    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Siriel's Avatar
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    Heaven's Fall into Black Chaos

    Welcome back.

    First thing first, this story is a sequel to From the Azure to Zero and The Training of Rin. Reading them isn't required, but it might help.

    I'll try to keep the same pace that I had in From Azure, but I make no promise.

    If you have a comment to make, don't be afraid to bump this thread. Unless it's been a year or something and I've declared the fic dead, I'll appreciate the feedback.

    The spoilers below will contain list of the chapters and the Servants' stats up-to-date as of the latest chapter. Be aware that the Servants profile can obviously include spoiler if you aren't caught up.

    Chapter
    Day 1: Declaration of War

    Chapter 1: The long-awaited time. (Rin, Kotomine.)
    Chapter 2: Wisdom of the Magi. (Johnathan, Waver, Caster.)
    Chapter 3: Human folly. (White, Assassin, Saber.)
    Chapter 4: A father's expectations. (Rin, Tokiomi.)
    Chapter 5: Summoning/Remnants. (Rin, Lancer; Kotomine, Noel.)
    Chapter 6: Beginning of the tragedy. (Zouken, Eins, Shinji.)
    Chapter 7 : First Encounter (Saber?, Rider.)
    Chapter 8 : A father's mistake. (Illya, Kotomine.)
    Chapter 9 : Shadows/The Strongest. (Red, Assassin ; Archer, Rider.)
    Chapter 10: Caster's test/Caster's promise. (Rin, Lancer, Caster ; Caster, Johnathan.)

    Day 2: King's Authority

    Chapter 11: Ancient memory. (Nazar, Black.)
    Chapter 12: Waver's resolve. (Waver, Kotomine.)
    Chapter 13: Justice. (Yuuto, Nazar, Eins, Rider.)
    Chapter 14: Waiting/Winter's castle. (Shinji, Sakura ; Archer, Illya.)
    Chapter 15: Contradicting orders/Warning. (Two, Black ; Rin, Lancer, Noel.)
    Chapter 16: Sleeping awareness/Teachings. (Two, Noel ; Red, Assassin.)
    Chapter 17: Empty city. (Rin, Lancer.)
    Chapter 18: King of Humanity. (Caster, Archer, Illya.)
    Chapter 19: Fallible faith. (Noel, Kotomine.)
    Chapter 20: The man who lifted the heavens. (Archer, Caster, Illya.)
    Chapter 21: False God Proclamation. (Rin, Lancer, Saber, Red.)

    Day 3: Black Awakening

    Chapter 22: Narrow Escape/Premonition. (Caster, Johnathan; Noel, Kotomine.)
    Chapter 23: Seed of Rebellion/Possibilities (Nazar, Rider; White, Saber.)
    Chapter 24: Anxiety/What cannot be seen (Shinji, Shadow; Two, Noel.)
    Chapter 25: Nightmare of 500 years/Blood Red Ruler (Kotomine, Zouken; Rin, Lancer, Rider.)
    Chapter 26: Heaven's Roar (Lancer, Rider.)
    Chapter 27: Contemplation/Unforeseen Alliance (The man in black; Kotomine, Zouken, Eins.)
    Chapter 28: Divine Decree (Rider, Lancer, Rin.)
    Chapter 29: Twin Stars, Daybreak. (Rider, Lancer, Caster)
    Chapter 30: Second Vessel Activation (The man in black, Nazar)
    Chapter 31: Anomaly (The man in black, Noel)
    Chapter 32: Eins (Eins, Zouken, Kotomine)
    Chapter 33: Unchained/Last Strike (Shinji, Sakura, Berserker; Eins, Kotomine)
    Chapter 34: Rising Legend (Johnathan, Caster)
    Chapter 35: Thou Shalt Not (Berserker, Caster)
    Chapter 36: End of the Divine Age (Berserker, Caster)
    Chapter 37: Crumbling Legend (Berserker, Caster)
    Chapter 38: Chaos Outset (Berserker; Rin, Lancer)

    Day 4: Standing at the Summit

    Chapter 39: Overture
    Chapter 40: Unseen Malice (Lancer, Rin, Noel)

    Extra: Beautiful Christmas. (Noel, Kotomine.)
    Extra: Return to the beginning





    Servants

    Class
    Strength/Endurance/Agility
    Mana/Luck/Noble Phantasm

    Saber
    B+/B+/B
    C /D /A+

    Lancer


    True Name: Enkidu
    Master: Tohsaka Rin

    Strength: B
    Endurance: A
    Agility: A
    Mana: B
    Luck: E
    Noble Phantasm: B

    Class Skills:

    Magic Resistance: B
    The ability to resist spells with a chant below three verses, diminishing the effect of even Greater Rituals and High Thaumaturgy.

    Personal Skills:

    Battle Continuation: A+
    As a result of Enkidu's unique body, even injuries that appear fatal will not stop him from fighting. Only the loss of sufficient body mass will halt his movement.
    During the battle in which he found a friend, more than two-third of his original body was lost.

    Shapeshifting: A+
    The ability to alter one's appearance. For Enkidu, an artificial life created by the gods, any form is possible even if it should not support life. The only restriction is the amount of materials at his disposal.

    No Items Ever!
    Divine Weapon
    : EX
    Power woven by the ancient gods of Mesopotamia into the one meant to oppose the king who possesses infinite treasures. In response to the appearance of an hostile Noble Phantasm, Enkidu's resiliency will rise by an amount determined by its rank.
    Although it offers diminishing returns the more Noble Phantasms are deployed, this skill makes him uniquely suited to dealing with those who rely excessively on powerful and costly weapons. Conversely, it offers no advantage against those who challenge gods through mere human skill.

    Due to the presence of this enchantment in his very core, Enkidu was unable to resist the fate of death decreed by the gods.
    Archer
    Servant: Archer

    True Name: Heracles
    Master: Illyasviel Von Einzbern
    Alignment: Chaotic Good

    Strength: A
    Endurance: A
    Agility: B
    Mana: A
    Luck: A
    Noble Phantasm: B

    Class Skills:

    Magic Resistance: B

    Independent Action: C
    The ability to act without support from a Master for up to a day before disappearing. Due to the extraordinary amount of magical energy required to maintain his existence, Heracles' rank is below what one might expect.

    Personal Skills:

    Battle Continuation: A
    Even when sustaining fatal wounds, it is possible for the Servant to continue fighting unhindered. Though a mortal body will inevitably succumb to fatal wounds, the life of a hero is not easily extinguished.

    Eye of the Mind (False): B
    Refined through countless battles and trials, Heracles is capable of making the difference between a strike that must be avoided and one that should be ignored, an almost instinctive ability to make the right decision in battle.

    Bravery: A+
    With his brave and daring spirit, Heracles is able to neutralize mental interference such as suppression, confusion and charm. The intensity of the spirit of humanity's greatest hero is such that he will deal increased damage in close combat.
    It can be said that this skill embodies the notion of a hero who will never retreat, no matter what.

    Divinity: A
    As the son of Zeus, the highest god of Greek mythology, the demigod Heracles possesses an extremely high degree of Divinity. Although it could be said that this destined him for greatness from birth, his achievements were so great that he was elevated to a full divinity upon death.

    Noble Phantasm:

    Shooting One-Hundred Heads
    Nine Lives


    Rank: B+
    Type: Anti-Army Noble Phantasm
    Maximum Targets: 100

    The most trusted possession of Heracles, the bow that felled the immortal hydra's heads with a single attack to prevent its resurrection. Later in his life, it became the namesake for the ultimate technique that he developed, but since he was summoned in the Archer class the original treasure acts as his primary Noble Phantasm.

    Contrasting the complex nature of the Noble Phantasms of many Servants, it is a simple attack that takes advantage of Heracles' peerless strength to fire arrows at high speed to acquire unrivaled destructive power. As a result, its cost is incredibly low for an Anti-Army attack.

    Simple is best, after all.


    Rider


    Class: Rider
    True Name: Ashurnasirpal II
    Master: Constantin Nazar Yggdmillenia
    Alignment: Neutral Evil

    A great Assyrian king blessed by the god Ashur, he possessed unsurpassed brutality and cruelty against those who challenged his rule.

    Strength: C
    Endurance: B
    Agility: C
    Mana: B
    Luck: C
    Noble Phantasm: A+

    Class Skills:

    Riding: A+
    Magic Resistance: D (C+)

    Personal Skills:

    Beloved of the Gods: D
    Protection granted to one who acts in the names of the gods, Magic Resistance is ranked up. Particularly effective against curses.

    Subjugator of the Proud : A
    A conqueror's ability to stamp out rebellion and maintain stability in his realm through brutality. Not only will a rebellion be dealt with effectively, control of the region in the future is almost assured through the fear of punishment.

    Unrestrained Brutality: A+
    Acts of violence elevated into a weapon, when Ashurnasirpal displays himself in full his acts cause a maddening intimidation that reaches the level of mental-interference magecraft. However as it is merely the impact of his actions on the human psyche, magical means of prevention are ineffective; the only way to stand against him is to overcome his presence with one's own will. At worst, it is possible that this will render his victims catatonic.
    Naturally the larger the scale on which he acts and the more time he has to set the scene, the more effective this skill becomes.

    Noble Phantasm:

    All Heaven
    Anshar

    Rank: A+
    Type: Anti-Army Noble Phantasm
    The blessing and authority bestowed upon Ashurnasirpal by Ashur, the god after which he is named. Through the divine mandate of kingship that he possesses all the natural powers coming from the sky align with him in battle and are under his command, coming to his aid even in the case of unforeseen attacks and rendering him immune to any harm caused by nature.
    In essence, this Noble Phantasm is the divine punishment inflicted upon those who oppose the chosen one, replicating all natural disasters without limit until the enemy has been reduced to nothing.


    Caster


    Servant: Caster
    Master: Johnathan Wynne
    True Name: Solomon

    Strength: E
    Endurance: E
    Agility: D
    Mana: A
    Luck: A
    Noble Phantasm: B+

    Class Skills:

    Territory Construction: A+

    The capacity to create a territory for one's magic. At this level, it is less the construction of a workshop and more the proclamation of one's authority over the chosen domain.

    Item Construction: C

    The ability to create magical objects. At this level, creation of basic magical objects is possible.

    Personal Skills:

    Gift of Wisdom: B

    Representing the ability to choose the right course of action. When one possesses it to this extent, it is even possible to lead a country along the rightful path.
    As one said to have received wisdom from God Himself, Solomon's judgment is inherently acceptable for humans who will find themselves prone to accept his decisions and to follow his lead.

    Charisma: A-

    With the ability to unite even far away countries, Solomon's ability to lead can be said to be almost peerless. Unfortunately, cohesion is lost when different religions enter the fray.

    Eye for Art: C

    An admirer of humanity's creativeness, Solomon has studied countless forms of arts when he could separate himself from his kingly duties. His great knowledge gives him a chance to identify a Noble Phantasm that has ties to artistic pursuits on sight.

    Noble Phantasm:

    Solomon's Temple
    King's Authority

    Rank: A+
    Type: Anti-Country Noble Phantasm


    Solomon's authority as a king who gives shape to humanity's dream. Within the influence of his territory the will of the people shall take the shape of dust, mankind's biblical origin, and be molded by the king's judgment. As this Noble Phantasm is the materialization of the king's command, it is possible to retract one's contribution through the simple act of rejecting Solomon's authority.

    Thanks to his ability to maximize the use of his subject's potentials, Solomon was able to accomplish countless wonders within his reign, such that he was later said to draw on the help of supernatural beings.

    Naturally, this Noble Phantasm becomes more effective as Solomon's subjects increase in numbers.

    This is only theory, but if the totality of the modern world gathered under the king's rule even overriding the planet's nature might not be outside his reach.

    Divine Star
    Seal of Solomon

    Rank: B+
    Type: Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm
    The signet ring bestowed upon Solomon by God, granting him dominion over spirits and the elements of the world. Alternatively described as a pentagram or an hexagram, the truth is that it is both. The five-pointed seal holds dominion over elements, and will unleash their power in sequence upon those designated by the king. The six-pointed seal, the Star of David, acts as a shield that automatically negates offenses that fall under the realm of nature.
    When deployed fully, the two seals unite into a star that traps the opponent in an isolated world, unleashing upon him the full fury of the elements until nothing remains. Due to the Seal's attribute of "ruling over spirits" it is particularly effective against existences like that of Servants, and even a Command Seal could not escape the world formed by the twin seals. Truly, a trump card that unfailingly guarantees victory.
    ...Or so it could have been. As a result of Solomon's fall from grace, this Noble Phantasm's power is weakened against those who enjoy divine protection.


    Berserker
    B/B/C
    B/E/B

    Assassin

    Strength: C
    Endurance: C
    Agility: B
    Mana: E
    Luck: B
    Noble Phantasm: C+

    Class Skills:

    Presence Concealment: B
    The ability to hide one's presence from others, affecting even extraordinary senses. However, the rank drops in the moment before attacking.

    Personal Skills:

    Self-Modification: B
    Modification of the body by adding parts from others. However, the higher the rank, the further one is from a proper hero.

    Hypnosis: A
    It is said that the members of the Assassins were so loyal that they would gladly walk to their deaths because they had received a vision of their promised paradise.

    The source of that rumor may be this Servant's ability to entrance others with a level of skill such that the victim will gladly walk even to its death. However, the rank drops greatly if the target is on guard against it.




    Without further ado, let us tell a tale that should never have come to pass...


    ---------------------------------------------


    When people travelled by plane, those in the economic class often spent at least a few moments to consider the possibilities brought about by the First Class section. What kind of decadent comfort did those who spend so much money on a plane ticket enjoy?

    Jealousy was a wonderful way to pass the time, after all.

    In the case of this particular plane heading toward Fuyuki, Japan, the other passengers would have been surprised to learn that the suite had been reserved by eight people - less than half the maximum amount, and that none of them spent the flight enjoying the luxury that they had paid so high a price for.
    Part of that was because they hadn't paid anything for it. In fact, six of the people who had been listed as passengers weren't people at all.

    As for the man who sat at the table located at the center of the suite, he paid no attention to the inanimate dolls; the entirety of his attention went toward reading the report that was placed before him.

    "It is as I feared sir, they attacked our facility in France."

    The slight Russian accent that marked his otherwise perfect Japanese betrayed his family's roots.

    His interlocutor is the only other individual in the room, who has remained almost completely motionless for the past hour.

    "Do not be concerned." Hastily fending off the glare of the grey eyes, he raised the report as though it was a shield. "They were able to salvage the seventh model and it will arrive one or two days after we do, well within schedule."

    No sooner had he finished his sentence that the other turned away from him without interest, and he sighed in relief.
    Most who witnessed the scene would find his reaction quite odd, as the other man showed no sign of aggression or anger.

    But he is Constantin Nazar Yggdmillenia, magus and a candidate Master for the Fifth Holy Grail War. His knowledge and wisdom far surpass that of the common man and it is for that reason that he is keenly aware of the true nature of his companion and partner.
    Even if it was unlikely that he would be killed because of the failure of others, simply enduring the full attention of such a man was a trial in itself.

    Tomorrow the two of them would arrive at the city of Fuyuki and in the shadows of that quiet town, seven heroes and magi would clash in a battle to the death to claim the omnipotent wish granting device called the Holy Grail.

    It would be the first time that Yggdmillenia officially entered this contest and as such he could normally have expected the full support of the main family.
    However, the unofficial involvement of their group in a previous war had ended in disaster and he had been forced to arrange matters himself as a result. In fact, most of Yggdmillenia's members were unaware of his efforts.

    If he failed, he would fade into history as a mere footnote.

    But if he succeeded, rewards beyond his wildest dreams awaited him.

    But it was much too early to begin thinking about what might come at the end when it hadn't even begun. Blinking himself back to the present, he relaxed in his seat to continue to review the important project that had been completed mere weeks ago.

    He considered it a good thing that the Holy Grail War had returned while he was still in his prime, but a mere decade had almost been too short an interval; if it had occured but a year ago, he would have had to give up on the opportunity.

    Thinking of the one that travelled with him, he couldn't help but wonder if that might have been the better outcome.


    ---------------------------------------------



    "So you have finally reached a decision?"

    It was the calm voice of a wise mentor that echoed throughout the holy place, offering peace to those who would hear it.

    The voice fit the speaker, as the priest clad in black stood proudly before the altar, looking down to the girl that he had been teaching for the better part of a decade now.

    They made for a strange pair, the priest's black hair and monochrome apparel making the red of her clothes stand out, particularly in such an austere place.

    "Drop the act, Kirei." The irritated voice of Tohsaka Rin cut through the atmosphere like a knife. "I've been training for this since I was born, there was never a chance of me giving up my place."

    If her classmates had heard her speak that way the image of a perfect student would have crumbled into nothing, especially since she spoke to such a respected member of the community.
    It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that she was the only person who had dared raise her voice to him in this place ever since he had taken over the task from his father. But she had known him for longer than she could remember, and any sense of awe or intimidation that could come from him had vanished around the time she had finally managed to kick the smile off his face.

    "Of course." With the same amiable nod that he used when one asked him to pray for a loved one, Kotomine Kirei brushed off the offense. "I was referring to your use of the relic I prepared. It wasn't easy to acquire it, you know? Why, I barely managed to fetch it before it was put on auction."

    "I might be more grateful if I knew what it was." It was there that lied the true source of her even more aggressive disposition than usual; the all-important relic that would decide her Servant and partner throughout the upcoming war had been kept secret merely for the amusement of a mischievous priest. "The only reason I agreed to this is because you promised me that I'd have the strongest Servant."

    The annoyance in Rin's voice did little to conceal the deep anxiety that lied in her heart. In truth, she didn't care if the relic belonged to a tyrant, a hero or even a monster. All that mattered was that it matched the promise that the priest had made.

    She needed the strongest, more than anything else.

    With a long suffering sigh, Kotomine reached into his pocket.

    "I had intended to ask you to perform the summoning blindly as repayment for all those years of ungratefulness, but in that state you wouldn't even speak the incantation correctly." Ignoring her outraged glare, he produced a small box from his pocket and handed it to her. "Then bear witness to the fruit of my efforts and repent, Rin."

    Suspiciously, she took hold of the box.

    He was being far too dramatic; Kotomine enjoyed theatrics, but only when there was a payoff at the end. Whatever was in the box, it was either a relic so great that it would more than match his promise or a tasteless joke.

    With bated breath, she slid open the container and felt anger ignite again in her heart.

    This was no great magical relic, no sigil of power that would summon an unfathomable knight of old. Nothing but a shapeless clump of colorless matter that had been used to draw a smile.

    "Hey, what the hell is-"

    At the last moment, she swallowed her words when she noticed the smug expectation in his smile.

    He wanted her to get angry, she mustn't fall for his petty game. But if he smiled like that, it was a trap rather than a bait.
    A trap...but what kind of trap? Surely he had hidden the relic inside the amorphous substance; taking the risk of damaging such an important object would be going too far even for him.

    The answer came to her in a flash, a memory from the countless lessons that she had taken. A certain legend that anyone who had the slightest interest in mythology would know of.

    "Wait, is this really-"

    Her voice fell into silence as his smile widened ever further with every word.

    "Bow your head for doubting me, ungrateful apprentice. As promised, I have delivered the strongest weapon."

    She most certainly did not bow her head, but she couldn't help but look down again at the unassuming form that she held in her hand.

    Nothing more than a lump of clay...
    Last edited by Siriel; February 18th, 2016 at 11:51 PM.
    Ragnarok, come day of wrath
    That fallen souls might bear our plea.
    To hasten the Divine's return.
    O piteous Wanderer.

  2. #2
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Meh's Avatar
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    Clay...

    So, Enkidu's in this one eh?

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    闇色の六王 ~ ♡ Renko's Avatar
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    Clay.....there are many choices of Heroes that have a significance from Clay.

    Enkidu maybe?

    "......"

    Quote Originally Posted by Thedoctor View Post
    Why can't we all be as sexually devious as Renko?

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    夜魔 Nightmare Olive's Avatar
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    Dear oh dear, here we go again.

    Despite not being awakened to a True Troll by Gilgamesh, Kirei still does a good job fucking with Rin.
    Spoiler:

    Quote Originally Posted by VelspertheCat View Post
    “Reincarnate into a cooler cat. Maybe I'll give a damn then.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Elf View Post
    "Live Slow, Die Whenever."
    Quote Originally Posted by kay4today View Post
    If I got a cent everytime I read "Mou~" in a Nanoha fic, I could buy a yacht and laugh at poor people.

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    Venus Swordman Ergast's Avatar
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    I'm going another way and say that she is going to summon Adan, the father of all humanity, or something. Although I'm not sure if that wouldn't conflict with the whole "Gil is the oldest and most powerful hero", now that I think about it...

    Meh, who cares, I'm still saying Adan.

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by shiningphoenix View Post
    Rin: "I wanted Saber..."
    Archer: "What? But Archers are all insanely OP, it's like a rule or something, why would you think Sabers were better?"
    Rin: "Sabers are more molestable..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilantia View Post
    AC!Rin. Fixing problems one moan at a time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sage of Eyes View Post
    Denizens of another dimension, meet Rin Tohsaka, Tsundere of Mass Destruction
    Quote Originally Posted by Christemo View Post
    I dont even know what Lunatique is. I assume it's terrible for the sake of argument.

  6. #6
    Onirique Daiki's Avatar
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    I'm going to say Pandora. Kotomine must be trolling Rin.

    I don't see the point to have Enkidu without Gil.
    Last edited by Daiki; April 18th, 2014 at 07:40 AM.

  7. #7
    Associated with a lump of clay, check. Referred to as the greatest weapon (of Uruk), check.

    I don't know. Sounds a lot like Enkidu to me.

  8. #8
    Onirique Daiki's Avatar
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    Could be a reference to the Pandora's box, supposed to contain all the world's evil, a theme not unrelated to the franchise and something which would interest Kotomine.

  9. #9
    Could be a lot of things, yeah. Enkidu might even be a little too predictable.

    I just wouldn't connect Pandora's box to some amorphous lump of clay right off the bat.

  10. #10
    夜魔 Nightmare Olive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurisuna View Post
    I just wouldn't connect Pandora's box to some amorphous lump of clay right off the bat.
    Nasu~
    Spoiler:

    Quote Originally Posted by VelspertheCat View Post
    “Reincarnate into a cooler cat. Maybe I'll give a damn then.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Elf View Post
    "Live Slow, Die Whenever."
    Quote Originally Posted by kay4today View Post
    If I got a cent everytime I read "Mou~" in a Nanoha fic, I could buy a yacht and laugh at poor people.

  11. #11
    Venus Swordman Ergast's Avatar
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    Personally, I think Enkidu is the one with the best chances of being related to that. But I wanted to bet on something different, and the (suposedly) first human being sounds like something broken in the Nasuverse.

    But yeah, pandora's box sounds as the strongest weapon, too.

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by shiningphoenix View Post
    Rin: "I wanted Saber..."
    Archer: "What? But Archers are all insanely OP, it's like a rule or something, why would you think Sabers were better?"
    Rin: "Sabers are more molestable..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilantia View Post
    AC!Rin. Fixing problems one moan at a time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sage of Eyes View Post
    Denizens of another dimension, meet Rin Tohsaka, Tsundere of Mass Destruction
    Quote Originally Posted by Christemo View Post
    I dont even know what Lunatique is. I assume it's terrible for the sake of argument.

  12. #12
    紅魔|吸血鬼 Frostyvale's Avatar
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    I do feel the need to ask. Where is that dumb old sheath that Tokiomi had pulled out of Cornwall?

    Perhaps it's a paperweight now?

  13. #13
    The Best Kind of P.C. Megas's Avatar
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    Eh, if it's either Enkidu or Pandora, we have the potential for a better servant than Arturia.

    Enkidu was able to match Gil after all.

    Besides, having the same old servants every time gets stale.

  14. #14
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Meh's Avatar
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    It could also be Adam. If the first snake skin ever shed still exists then clay from the Garden of Eden isn't so far fetched.

    But Enkidu is still more likely. What could Adam even have?
    Last edited by Meh; April 18th, 2014 at 11:29 AM.

  15. #15
    The Best Kind of P.C. Megas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meh View Post
    It could also be Adam. If the first snake skin ever shed still exists then clay from the Garden of Eden isn't so far fetched.
    Problem, Gil is the first and oldest hero. If Adam is the first human and he came before Gil, he isn't on the throne, no ifs, ands, or buts. Come to think of it, that's potentially a problem with Pandora too.

    So yeah, this is probably Enkidu

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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Meh's Avatar
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    First RECORDED hero. His legend is the oldest, thus he is the strongest hero. Christianity is also pretty old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meh View Post
    First RECORDED hero. His legend is the oldest, thus he is the strongest hero. Christianity is also pretty old.
    His legend is oldest, therefore he is the oldest hero, he says that he is the oldest. An unrecorded hero would not be in the throne of heroes. That's why all the Hassans are wraiths.

    Recorded and celebrated heroes are the only ones that matter to the throne. Adam was the only human when he was around, who would get him into the throne?
    Last edited by Megas; April 18th, 2014 at 11:58 AM.

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    But Adam is recorded. If a few tablets and scraps of papyrus counts as a recording, why wouldn't the Bible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meh View Post
    But Adam is recorded. If a few tablets and scraps of papyrus counts as a recording, why wouldn't the Bible?
    What?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meh View Post
    First RECORDED hero. His legend is the oldest, thus he is the strongest hero. Christianity is also pretty old.
    But Adam wasn't recorded as a HERO, he didn't slay a beast or do anything monumental. Aside from eating an apple and screwing Eve.

    Literally, according to Nasu, before Gilgamesh, there were no heroes.

    It may be weird, but those are literally the rules based on Fate.

    At least as far as I remember.

    I also think the implication is that those tablets and scraps of papyrus are the oldest recordings of a hero.

    The bible was written after those scraps of Papyrus.
    Last edited by Megas; April 18th, 2014 at 12:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMegas View Post
    The bible was written after those scraps of Papyrus.
    So was the Illiad.

    But, yeah Adam isn't really a hero. He wouldn't have done anything worth being placed in the ToH.

    David, Joshua, and Moses on the other hand... But, I can't associate any of them with clay so the point is moot.

    Edit: Also, posted my previous one before seeing your edit about needing to be celebrated to be a hero.
    Last edited by Meh; April 18th, 2014 at 01:47 PM.

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