Heaven's Feel Movies

[castor212]

miura is bad because his cinematography and pacing is awkward, not necessarily rushed, but awkward in various places, mainly scene transition

is my IMO

[pinetree]

miura is bad because his cinematography and pacing is awkward, not necessarily rushed, but awkward in various places, mainly scene transition

is my IMO

Agreed, it bothers me specially during Archer vs Shirou and then during Gil vs Shirou.

[John D. Pliskin]

I guess the conversation between kotelo and Hakuno is mostly resolved, but still, the basic exchanges that started it all--

With every day I learn more awesome things about Sudou, and at the same time I realise how much of a mistake Miura was.

Because of him having to make some changes because of Nasu? Even Miura wanted to follow close as possible to the original story

And then people complains because of him not doing a full every change that Nasu wanted to make or put in his drafts


So it was still a lose-lose situation for him following the fanbase's logic

The difference is that Sudou manned up and rejected everything.

IIRC Miura had the storyboard for ep20 ready but he didn't like it because "it was too much like the original" and asked Nasu to change it, thing Nasu did. I don't remember if it was in the BDBOX interview or elsewhere.

I was Nasu who wanted to change it

--is, ugh, something I don't look forward to popping up in future discussions. It just doesn't sit well with me, to continue seeing the memetic propagation of "lol Miura SUCKS as a director" in lieu of the apparent critical acclaim that Sudou's adaptation of Heaven's Feel is getting. (Though naturally, this meme has still been very much a thing both during and after the airing of UBW in some circles.)

Aside from how Miura approached one route (UBW) as a TV anime and how Sudou approached the other route (HF) as a film trilogy-- as the nature of the story being told/visual medium in of themselves help dictate the general composition of a piece-- I don't see how the two directors' approach are ultimately so different. I mean, I don't think I've seen people break down the directorial styles of either one of them enough to contrast them; it's not like they're established auteur directors or ones with long track records a la Kunihiko Ikuhara or Shinichiro Watanabe. So if ufotable's UBW is going to be a 'critical disappointment' and HF is going to be a 'critical success', maybe that'll be mostly thanks to the strengths of both the medium and the story of the route adapted?

(By the way, thanks for the excerpts from the S2 booklet, Hakuno. Do you have scans of the whole thing somewhere for easy reference? A bit lazy to scan mine in at the moment.)

Sure, but from what I've read from people who actually went to watch the movie, Sudou's approach paid off. For UBW Nasu wanted changes and Miura accepted, for HF Nasu wanted changes and Sudou refused. Simple as that.

But surely there were times where Miura had his own input as to 'what to keep' from the original route? At the very least, there were 'questionable areas' (in the eyes of certain critics, and even Nasu himself) that Miura was more than fine in embracing and adapting, seemingly much like Sudou was in regards to HF.

For instance: Reading through the Season 2 BD booklet (scans would be easy for this), it sounds like Nasu still had regrets about being unable to "tune the balance for the anime" as far as the elaborate character dialogue was concerned, while Miura expressed how aware and appreciative he was of such lines. ("I taped the source text from the game on my desk, and I would find hints from that as I worked. Even among the lines that you [Nasu] yourself might not have found to be that crucial, I found so many gems.")

TL;DR There's lots of questionable Miura bullying when I don't think Sudou's ultimately so different from him so please reconsider I guess...?

miura is bad because his cinematography and pacing is awkward, not necessarily rushed, but awkward in various places, mainly scene transition

is my IMO

Agreed, it bothers me specially during Archer vs Shirou and then during Gil vs Shirou.

Thing is, Miura is listed as both a Unit Director and the Storyboard Artist for the action scenes in HF (as shown in the ANN Encyclopedia, among other places), and HF's action setpieces are supposed to be among the biggest animation highlights so ??? this seems like a super subjective, YMMV kind of thing at worst.

I remember hearing such criticism about the cinematography as UBW aired, but I think Beast's Lair was the only place I saw where some users much ado made about it.

[castor212]

its not the set piece, its the transition between it

- - - Updated - - -

you can have very good scenes but wiggly composition

its more prominent in the daily scenes in what i experienced

[Hakuno]

(By the way, thanks for the excerpts from the S2 booklet, Hakuno. Do you have scans of the whole thing somewhere for easy reference? A bit lazy to scan mine in at the moment.)

Sent via PM

[kotelo]

Some stuff was weird, like Archer and Shirou butt to butt and suddenly Archer says OH FROM THAT REACTION YOU SEEM TO KNOW when all Shirou did was wiggle a bit. Well, all of this was already discussed in the UBW thread, whatever.

[Mcjon01]

Some stuff was weird, like Archer and Shirou butt to butt and suddenly Archer says OH FROM THAT REACTION YOU SEEM TO KNOW when all Shirou did was wiggle a bit. Well, all of this was already discussed in the UBW thread, whatever.

There’s no kimochi too fukuzatsu for two men to communicate with butt to butt wiggles.

[Rafflesiac]

Some stuff was weird, like Archer and Shirou butt to butt and suddenly Archer says OH FROM THAT REACTION YOU SEEM TO KNOW when all Shirou did was wiggle a bit. Well, all of this was already discussed in the UBW thread, whatever.

Whoa whoa whoa the back to back posing was gloriously on the nose framing, I can't fault Miura for that.

Having Shirou stand still instead of walking past Archer I'll gladly give him shit for, but the repeated side-by-side poses are great.

[kotelo]

There’s no kimochi too fukuzatsu for two men to communicate with butt to butt wiggles.

Whoa whoa whoa the back to back posing was gloriously on the nose framing, I can't fault Miura for that.

Having Shirou stand still instead of walking past Archer I'll gladly give him shit for, but the repeated side-by-side poses are great.

Maybe Archer was able to accept Shirou only thanks to their butt interaction. Sword clashes weren't enough, the true answer was... butt wiggles.

[FourthWall]

The quickest way to a man's heart is through his butt.

[Rafflesiac]

Whoa whoa whoa, is that a motherfucking Ulster Cycle reference?

[John D. Pliskin]

Oh yeah, another consideration to add onto the 'pls no bully Miura' pile is the presence of episode directors and animation directors over the two cour anime series that is UBW; I'd be surprised to see as much of a unified voice over a production that spread out than, say, a singular movie (or three). All these directors presumably bring their own quirks and nuances into the scenes they take care of, and I don't see Miura being so heavily invested in (or controlling of) all such minute details of a TV production, like some more heavily involved auteur directors.

Honestly, I'd probably have to see some sakuga reels or some such that show Miura-specific animation work versus Sudou-specific animation work to find a distinctive voice to their styles, if there is any.

---

Anyway, trying to pivot back to more HF-specific discussion...

I'm surprised I haven't seen all that much reaction to the significant absence of monologues, which wasn't talked about here before the ANN review came along IIRC. I reckoned I'd see a few up in arms over that by now.

Does... does that mean BL has collectively finally learned to embrace the visual medium of anime and let the animation do the primary job of characterization?

[Yggdrasil]

A thing that annoyed me during UBW was the way dialogues were shot. I often found people poses and camera angles just too static for my tastes.

[John D. Pliskin]

Sadly, that's been a tradition of ufotable Type-Moon cinematography since Fate/Zero, if not earlier.

[hayate]

There’s no kimochi too fukuzatsu for two men to communicate with butt to butt wiggles.

And here I thought butt wiggles were Rin's thing.

So, did Rin's butt wiggle in HF in 60 fps?

[Roxas]

scans of the booklet when? I want to see Nasu's script scenario

anyway found something about Kirei



and this

[Bobin]

They really like that other design for the dress better afterall, RIP gothic lolita.

[Death7Knight]

I'm not a saberfag or anything, but I gotta admit, Ufo!Seiba Alter looks great.

[Laserman]

I'm not a saberfag or anything, but I gotta admit, Ufo!Seiba Alter looks great.

Freaking scared me. I didn't expect to see that.

[Kratosirving]

DAmn, Alter does look great even with just that one still. Wonder if her personality will have any changes to match the casual dress too?