Heaven's Feel Movies

[SeiKeo]

Comedy has a grain of truth,

[Gyrad1]

You can say the same thing about any heroine in all media with tragic backstories. The "girl with a tragic backstory" trope in general is such lazy writing because they use the cheap tool of them getting abused or getting raped as a quick way of garnering sympathy for the character.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Just rewatch Saber Alter and Herc fight, yep that final punch didn't hit Saber Alter, she blocked it

[GarlandGreene]

You can say the same thing about any heroine in all media with tragic backstories. The "girl with a tragic backstory" trope in general is such lazy writing because they use the cheap tool of them getting abused or getting raped as a quick way of garnering sympathy for the character.

You know what's even more annoying? Having a paper thin antagonist show their tragic backstory that's entirely crammed right before they are about to die (or sometimes even after they are dead). Looking at you, Kimetsu no Yaiba. Hell, even their UBW anime was guilty of that.

[forumghost]

I can't help but find something hilarious about Sakura's place in all these, in the entire trilogy, it's like the Carnival Phantasm sketch where she keeps going "Oh, woe is me, I'm such an unfortunate heroine!" *dramatically puts back of hand on forehead*

They're just trying to be true to the source material.

[asterism42]

TBH I always skip past the 'tragic backstory' scenes in Kimetsu no Yaiba. I can't stand them.

[mami-kouga]

I mean, demons are former humans who don't have control over themselves anymore, I don't know what anyone else would expect at that point especially since the back stories tend to be more after battle introspection than anything else. But eh, I guess that's up to ymmv

[weeblord]

You know what's even more annoying? Having a paper thin antagonist show their tragic backstory that's entirely crammed right before they are about to die (or sometimes even after they are dead). Looking at you, Kimetsu no Yaiba. Hell, even their UBW anime was guilty of that.

UBW second cour had such wack pacing because of this. Medeas flashback had no right being that long, anf Illyas completely ruined the pace and oomph of her death scene. And the only anime original flashback i actually hoped for (Lancer & Bazett) did not happen reeeeeeeeee.

[Altima of the Gates]

I can't help but find something hilarious about Sakura's place in all these, in the entire trilogy, it's like the Carnival Phantasm sketch where she keeps going "Oh, woe is me, I'm such an unfortunate heroine!" *dramatically puts back of hand on forehead*

*shrug* Meh, it's a visual, it's fine if you don't like the character, but you're reaching a bit. It's no less than the dirth of official images of Saber had with tears in Camlann during Zero, even in the 2nd opening, highlighting her tragedy pretty constantly. Sakura has spent 11 years being experimented on, and then we have had two weeks of hell for her, she cries, it's a thing.

You can say the same thing about any heroine in all media with tragic backstories. The "girl with a tragic backstory" trope in general is such lazy writing because they use the cheap tool of them getting abused or getting raped as a quick way of garnering sympathy for the character.

It's a tool for drama yes, but honestly, I can't say people would appreciate the context either before in the middle, right before, or after either. It's a trope mainly because its effective, but again, it's a subjective thing, so you might not have it work for you.

You know what's even more annoying? Having a paper thin antagonist show their tragic backstory that's entirely crammed right before they are about to die (or sometimes even after they are dead). Looking at you, Kimetsu no Yaiba. Hell, even their UBW anime was guilty of that.

Medea's end was pretty good. Far better than the original where she was treated as a midboss that lived too long. Lancer got the fanfare when he was also a fucker who shanks a kid and then chastised him for not being graceful enough to die, but he gets some definite sympathy notes later after being offscreen for most of the route.
Hell, while I did want more Bazette backstory since they teased it, it would have only given more sympathy beats to a character who, objectively was pretty morally eyebrow raising. I mean hell, the final fistfight in HF did the "villain gets a final monologue" bit with his "but I just wanted human happiness" and yet no eyebrows are raised on that, even when this dude has had a hand in everyone's cookie jar.

[eddyak]

*shrug* Meh, it's a visual, it's fine if you don't like the character, but you're reaching a bit. It's no less than the dirth of official images of Saber had with tears in Camlann during Zero, even in the 2nd opening, highlighting her tragedy pretty constantly. Sakura has spent 11 years being experimented on, and then we have had two weeks of hell for her, she cries, it's a thing.

It's not really reaching, because it's like, you look this way, and there's a visual with Sakura crying, and you look that way, and there's Sakura holding a flower that probably means something mopey in the language of flowers, and one of the PVs for II there's a ten+ second period of almost every character going "Sakura" "Sakura" "Sakura", and for like 90% the movies, while everyone else is out there doing things, Sakura's standing around with the back of her hand to her forehead gasping dramatically and being all helpless.

It definitely feels like it's gotten to the point of parody, where it she's from some mediocre dubbed drama that your grandma would watch, where they milk as much sympathy for the character as physically possible until they aren't really a character any more.

[TheSeaDragon]

*shrug* Meh, it's a visual, it's fine if you don't like the character, but you're reaching a bit. It's no less than the dirth of official images of Saber had with tears in Camlann during Zero, even in the 2nd opening, highlighting her tragedy pretty constantly. Sakura has spent 11 years being experimented on, and then we have had two weeks of hell for her, she cries, it's a thing.



It's a tool for drama yes, but honestly, I can't say people would appreciate the context either before in the middle, right before, or after either. It's a trope mainly because its effective, but again, it's a subjective thing, so you might not have it work for you.



Medea's end was pretty good. Far better than the original where she was treated as a midboss that lived too long. Lancer got the fanfare when he was also a fucker who shanks a kid and then chastised him for not being graceful enough to die, but he gets some definite sympathy notes later after being offscreen for most of the route.
Hell, while I did want more Bazette backstory since they teased it, it would have only given more sympathy beats to a character who, objectively was pretty morally eyebrow raising. I mean hell, the final fistfight in HF did the "villain gets a final monologue" bit with his "but I just wanted human happiness" and yet no eyebrows are raised on that, even when this dude has had a hand in everyone's cookie jar.

People is really eager to call something bad storytelling just because it does not work for them personally

I agree with you but i also think the movies are whitewashing her compared to the VN , when her flaws make her a good character, at least for me, but i will wait for Dark Sakura in Spring song before make judgement .

- - - Updated - - -

You know what's even more annoying? Having a paper thin antagonist show their tragic backstory that's entirely crammed right before they are about to die (or sometimes even after they are dead). Looking at you, Kimetsu no Yaiba. Hell, even their UBW anime was guilty of that.

I kinda feel that way about Zouken. He is portrayed as a really one note monster with a last minute sob story. Is not a bad idea per se, nobody is born a monster, but it needed more build up imo

[TheSeaDragon]

Comedy has a grain of truth,

Carnival phantasm is the same series where Rin is a greedy dumbass and Cu is Kenny


You cant go, lol, even CP makes fun of her, when CP makes fun of everyone

And t that CP bit is not that true to her character, lol. Use her creepy side in a comedic way would have been funnier

[GarlandGreene]

Medea's end was pretty good. Far better than the original where she was treated as a midboss that lived too long.

I don't think this gentleman would agree with you:

Spoiler:

[DTTS]

I don't think this gentleman would agree with you:

Spoiler:

god, it's been way too long since I've seen this

[Rafflesiac]

kuizuki

[weeblord]

Right: what everyone else sees
left: what nasudrone sees

[Altima of the Gates]

It's not really reaching, because it's like, you look this way, and there's a visual with Sakura crying, and you look that way, and there's Sakura holding a flower that probably means something mopey in the language of flowers, and one of the PVs for II there's a ten+ second period of almost every character going "Sakura" "Sakura" "Sakura", and for like 90% the movies, while everyone else is out there doing things, Sakura's standing around with the back of her hand to her forehead gasping dramatically and being all helpless.

It definitely feels like it's gotten to the point of parody, where it she's from some mediocre dubbed drama that your grandma would watch, where they milk as much sympathy for the character as physically possible until they aren't really a character any more.

Its material from a depressing route Eddy, so official art and the scenes therein are likely going to be more subdued and melancholy.
Further, she has had good promotional material (thanks Sudou) that is more peppy. However, the character shouldn't have to have forced skits of comedy to be viable, there are bits of natural levity, but again, it's a desperate situation, not a romcom.

I mean, she is a depressed person that has an actually shitty life, so being withdrawn or depressed is not really something to knock the material on.
Also, she does actually suggest helping out, she just gets shot down for that. What does make me sad is Sudou cut out the entirety of Distant Twilight, which was a really good if sobering talk she has with Shirou about her life, her feelings about Rin, and magecraft. Hoped there would be BD extra scenes for it, but welp, didn't get it.

Carnival phantasm is the same series where Rin is a greedy dumbass and Cu is Kenny


You cant go, lol, even CP makes fun of her, when CP makes fun of everyone

And t that CP bit is not that true to her character, lol. Use her creepy side in a comedic way would have been funnier

The date ep was a bit better for comedy's sake imo. But yeah, this is true. Back then, they said there was no way to make Sakura funny without resorting to things like her weight or something and I disagreed because that was just stupid.
I am fine if you make fun of a character I like, but the way episode 6 went was beyond the pale. Like, Hollow had some humor where Sakura was hoisted by her own petard for being haughty, and it works. Carnival Phantasm episode 6 was basically a hater making every dig in the book they could (the popularity poll bit, when Sakura had, at the time of the airing eclipsed Rider was just bad), so naturally, haters would find it funny.
Hell, during the time it aired, people said a lot of Rin comedy didn't land well with the Luddite jokes, so it ain't just Sakura. I hope Nasu's interactions with Sudou now with the movies have caused him to maybe rethink the way he presents her character.

[TheSeaDragon]

Its material from a depressing route Eddy, so official art and the scenes therein are likely going to be more subdued and melancholy.
Further, she has had good promotional material (thanks Sudou) that is more peppy. However, the character shouldn't have to have forced skits of comedy to be viable, there are bits of natural levity, but again, it's a desperate situation, not a romcom.

I mean, she is a depressed person that has an actually shitty life, so being withdrawn or depressed is not really something to knock the material on.
Also, she does actually suggest helping out, she just gets shot down for that. What does make me sad is Sudou cut out the entirety of Distant Twilight, which was a really good if sobering talk she has with Shirou about her life, her feelings about Rin, and magecraft. Hoped there would be BD extra scenes for it, but welp, didn't get it.



The date ep was a bit better for comedy's sake imo. But yeah, this is true. Back then, they said there was no way to make Sakura funny without resorting to things like her weight or something and I disagreed because that was just stupid.
I am fine if you make fun of a character I like, but the way episode 6 went was beyond the pale. Like, Hollow had some humor where Sakura was hoisted by her own petard for being haughty, and it works. Carnival Phantasm episode 6 was basically a hater making every dig in the book they could (the popularity poll bit, when Sakura had, at the time of the airing eclipsed Rider was just bad), so naturally, haters would find it funny.
Hell, during the time it aired, people said a lot of Rin comedy didn't land well with the Luddite jokes, so it ain't just Sakura. I hope Nasu's interactions with Sudou now with the movies have caused him to maybe rethink the way he presents her character.

I dont like to say it because people will say i take a CP episode too seriously, but yeah.


I feel like she is more respected now compared to when CP first aired.

[eddyak]

Its material from a depressing route Eddy, so official art and the scenes therein are likely going to be more subdued and melancholy.
Further, she has had good promotional material (thanks Sudou) that is more peppy. However, the character shouldn't have to have forced skits of comedy to be viable, there are bits of natural levity, but again, it's a desperate situation, not a romcom.

I mean, she is a depressed person that has an actually shitty life, so being withdrawn or depressed is not really something to knock the material on.
Also, she does actually suggest helping out, she just gets shot down for that. What does make me sad is Sudou cut out the entirety of Distant Twilight, which was a really good if sobering talk she has with Shirou about her life, her feelings about Rin, and magecraft. Hoped there would be BD extra scenes for it, but welp, didn't get it.

You've helped me make my point- she doesn't even get a chance to be a standout character in a series that's most about its standout characters, the writing and directing just take that away from her, and the promo material only exacerbates it.

It was never a dig at Sakura, it was a dig at the portrayal.

[TheSeaDragon]

you mean specifically the movies ?