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Thread: Fate/Grand Order General Discussion (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

  1. #195681
    Guaranteed stun on Scatach NP and high damage justifies A rank for me.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.Lock View Post
    Altera is, like, pretty much comparable to ST NP Servants.
    In terms of NP damage, no. Saber is still stronger. The crit star absorb she has on Natural Body is nice, but I really wish it had been tied to Military Tactics or Star Crest instead because I don't like having her only defensive skill being tied to an offensive ability.

    And Kiara isn't good enough to be higher than Melt.
    I don't have a Kiara of my own, but watching videos and keeping in mind what NP level the Kiara is, I can't see why people rate her so low. Very good NP, passive Defense Up to nearly every Servant. Only real complaint is the cooldown on her skills, but using her with Tamamo helps with that.

    With Melt, I don't like her skills as much. Melt Virus is just bad, and doesn't have nearly the level of payoff as Ishtar. Really should also be a NP Power Up next turn that scales with level, but it's not. Crime Ballet and Sadism aren't bad, but it would be nice if the evade charges only expired on hit rather than after 3 turns. As for her NP, it's nice that it's a buff removal, but the overcharge effect is like a crappier version of Carmilla's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

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    吸血鬼 Vampire jennajayfeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.Lock View Post
    Oh, I see.

    I feel that Summer event provided good enough nodes for farming spine fluids, but eh.
    I used some on other characters that need like, 60 per skill which is already bad but 72 is just awful.

    That number's cursed and it was probably intentional.
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  4. #195684
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six asterism42's Avatar
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    I think the main issue with Kiara is that she'd probably do more damage with her NP if she just coughed in the general direction of the enemy team or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.

  5. #195685
    The dream is dead R.Lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    In terms of NP damage, no. Saber is still stronger. The crit star absorb she has on Natural Body is nice, but I really wish it had been tied to Military Tactics or Star Crest instead because I don't like having her only defensive skill being tied to an offensive ability.
    In terms of overall damage potential, Altera is the second best Buster-oriented Saber, hands down. And even in terms of NP damage, the damage difference between her and Saber isn't that big.

    I don't have a Kiara of my own, but watching videos and keeping in mind what NP level the Kiara is, I can't see why people rate her so low. Very good NP, passive Defense Up to nearly every Servant. Only real complaint is the cooldown on her skills, but using her with Tamamo helps with that.
    Slow CD's, mediocre NP damage, and 16% passive def don't really make an A-tier material. Also, her only big buff is not very usable in long fights.

    With Melt, I don't like her skills as much. Melt Virus is just bad, and doesn't have nearly the level of payoff as Ishtar. Really should also be a NP Power Up next turn that scales with level, but it's not. Crime Ballet and Sadism aren't bad, but it would be nice if the evade charges only expired on hit rather than after 3 turns. As for her NP, it's nice that it's a buff removal, but the overcharge effect is like a crappier version of Carmilla's.
    Melt Virus is great, and giving it as much payoff as Ishtar's buff would just make Ishtar's stocks drop. It's pretty much the only two-step skill that has payoffs at both steps, to boot.
    It is verrry rare that Evade charges don't expire in 3 turns or until the buff is off CD. In all my experience with Marie that happened like... 10 times? And she has been in my frontline until she got her bond 10. So yeah, nah.
    As for NP, yeah, she's undertuned and her Quick bonus is small, but just by virtue of being a Quick Servant, she deals enough damage for it not to matter much.


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    KAMUKURA KAMUKURA YAS QUEEN! Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.Lock View Post
    Slow CD's, mediocre NP damage, and 16% passive def don't really make an A-tier material. Also, her only big buff is not very usable in long fights.
    Objection, she's actually strongest Arts AOE NP in the game (against cavalry ofc but you never bring class disadvantage in the game so there is no reason for me pointing it out really)

  7. #195687
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    Did nobody see that solo Kiara Medb challenge quest kill? She looks pretty freaking strong to me.


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    真の英雄は眼で殺す! Altaris's Avatar
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    Seeing Aozaki's Tier List kinda make me want to do one of my own


  9. #195689
    The dream is dead R.Lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aozaki-desu View Post
    Objection, she's actually strongest Arts AOE NP in the game (against cavalry ofc but you never bring class disadvantage in the game so there is no reason for me pointing it out really)
    Objection, that's only because there aren't any Berserkers with Arts AoE NP that deals damage.


  10. #195690
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aozaki-desu View Post
    cant see any rational justification for this
    My bias for single target NP over AoE NP.

    Dont feel like she's as good as the other 3 due to reasons i described earlier
    She is certainly less versatile and more team-demanding
    I don't see how she's any more team demanding than those three. Her only hiccup is the time that's needed to get her NP spam going, but it's not as though that takes very long thanks to her good NP generation.

    Dont feel like this is justified. Scathach still does shitfuckton of damage and stuns on np
    Saber Lancer is decent for farming and her invul pierce is neat. She's basically superior Saber version
    I move Scathach down because she epitomizes what everyone bitches about Kintoki; good burst damage, but not much else.

    As for Saber Lancer, farming is all she's really good for.

    shes good for single target
    The few times I've used her, she felt like Scathach when it came to NP charging. I guess you can use her for crits, but then you may as well use any other Rider for that purpose.

    i definitely think she's better than that
    She's not bad, but she's not enough of a game changer to make using Quick Servants as ridiculous as Tamamo and Merlin are for Arts and Buster Servants, respectively. Maybe if her second and third skills applied their effects to more than one target. Also, would have been nice if her NP provided a 1-turn additional Defense Up bonus.

    kintoki is not that good as baseline np1, Cu Alter is proven time and time again to be the best at what he does and there is no reason for nightingale to be C
    I value Animal Dialogue and Kintoki's much larger freedom to use any CE than Cu Alter's 2-hit Protection from Arrows every 5 turns, especially when harder content nowadays isn't afraid to throw in enemies with Sure Hit/Invincible Pierce or buff removal/denial.

    As for Nightingale being C, if she were any other class, I'd be fine with keeping her at B.

    Jeanne is neither irreplacable nor can do primary support functions (even if just for survivability), not EX material
    Melt is really good single-target + Alter Ego perk of getting one rank up due to countering 3 classes at once
    Kiara might be A material but i'm not convinced so far. B is her solid bottom line.
    I can't agree with you on Jeanne when it comes to survival post-NP Interlude. No self-stun + debuff cleanse is extremely useful for harder content.

    Melt fills a useful niche that's not easily covered, but I wouldn't rate her past B solely for that niche. Her skills aren't anything amazing, and her NP is similar to Carmilla's in terms of being subpar. The buff removal is nice, but the fact that it does it after dealing damage doesn't help her. If it were like Amakusa's NP, then I'd be fine with keeping her in A.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  11. #195691
    KAMUKURA KAMUKURA YAS QUEEN! Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.Lock View Post
    Objection, that's only because there aren't any Berserkers with Arts AoE NP that deals damage.
    Hardly Kiara's fault
    Also she would still be better against cavalry because no weakness

  12. #195692
    The Best Kind of P.C. Megas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aozaki-desu View Post
    i delivered
    i got tired halfway through of writing descriptions and some of them are p uninspired but whatever i'll do it when i feel like it
    Honestly, relatively surprised Altera and Karna ranked so high.

    Altera especially.

    I mean, I've grailed her and all, and I use her a lot, but I didn't think she was that good. I usually swap to musashi when I really wanna kill something.
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  13. #195693
    真の英雄は眼で殺す! Altaris's Avatar
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    Karna post-interlude is amazing, definitely a candidate for best 5 stars Lancer atm


  14. #195694
    Skills: Tsukkomi EX Nobody's Avatar
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    Looking at the tier list just makes me wish that Holmes could be the star of the 2017 Christmas gacha.

  15. #195695
    The dream is dead R.Lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    Did nobody see that solo Kiara Medb challenge quest kill? She looks pretty freaking strong to me.
    I saw Marie solo'ing Tiamat, Hijikata challenge quest, Indian borthers challenge quest, Nerofest 2017 final challenge quest, and take at least 11 Herc lives when she had all taunters die in the Herc challenge.

    If you call Marie an amazing damage dealer after these feats, I'm gonna laugh myself to death.


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    The Best Kind of P.C. Megas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.Lock View Post
    I saw Marie solo'ing Tiamat, Hijikata challenge quest, Indian borthers challenge quest, Nerofest 2017 final challenge quest, and take at least 11 Herc lives when she had all taunters die in the Herc challenge.

    If you call Marie an amazing damage dealer after these feats, I'm gonna laugh myself to death.
    Mine is super amazing at killing doors because she's NP5.

    ....she's worse than the other riders at killing doors without using her NP tho
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  17. #195697
    It's Magikewl~ Magikewl's Avatar
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    Karna is actually p ridiculous now. Only thing missing is star absorb but that's not really a problem for me tbh

  18. #195698
    The dream is dead R.Lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aozaki-desu View Post
    Hardly Kiara's fault
    Also she would still be better against cavalry because no weakness
    I mean, we're not saying that Arthur's the best male SSR AoE Saber just because there's no other male SSR Sabers, are we?
    Like, okay, there's no alternative answer to multi-class cavalry quests. I still consider her damage output merely mediocre dwindled even further because of the lack of buffs/debuffs with more or less steady uptime.


  19. #195699
    吸血鬼 Vampire jennajayfeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Looking at the tier list just makes me wish that Holmes could be the star of the 2017 Christmas gacha.
    I mean I use Holmes a ton but I don't think he's anywhere near as useful as Waver or Merlin. He's definitely good and by far one of my favorite Servants to use but the gap between him and Waver/Merlin is quite far I believe.

    I feel Waver & Merlin should be placed at like an EX++ or something just because they are almost a necessity.
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  20. #195700
    KAMUKURA KAMUKURA YAS QUEEN! Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    My bias for single target NP over AoE NP.
    No reason for that because Altera can match Okita's single target damage. Which is why she is A rank along with quite a few other Buster servants with AOE np who can also match single target damage with brave chains.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    I don't see how she's any more team demanding than those three. Her only hiccup is the time that's needed to get her NP spam going, but it's not as though that takes very long thanks to her good NP generation.
    Dropping buster bomb is always easier than setting up NP spam team. Thats just harsh reality.
    Especially considering you can make do with support for that while for Saber Archer you have to have at least one ex support of your own, and you need right CE or damage / np gen gonna be poop.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    I move Scathach down because she epitomizes what everyone bitches about Kintoki; good burst damage, but not much else.
    Except she has survivability, low cooldown on her burst and guaranteed stun? i'm not even sure which Kintoki you are talking about but thinking about it that applies for both


    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    She's not bad, but she's not enough of a game changer to make using Quick Servants as ridiculous as Tamamo and Merlin are for Arts and Buster Servants, respectively. Maybe if her second and third skills applied their effects to more than one target. Also, would have been nice if her NP provided a 1-turn additional Defense Up bonus.
    I believe she is not meant to be a support but rather a hybrid dd/support. I think she would be rather useful in proper setup and seeing how she's a new servant i exercise my right to keep her where i think she's supposed to be until i fail to put my ideas to practice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    I can't agree with you on Jeanne when it comes to survival post-NP Interlude. No self-stun + debuff cleanse is extremely useful for harder content.
    Yes but she wont be able to keep your team alive by herself. You would run either Tamamo or Merlin or Waver for additional survivability and np charge and they can make do without Jeanne she cant make do without them. You cant just put Jeanne in and expect the team to survive without losses is exactly why she is not EX. I thought about it for a while.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Her skills aren't anything amazing, and her NP is similar to Carmilla's in terms of being subpar.
    Unlike Carmilla, Melt delivers on damage output.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by R.Lock View Post
    I mean, we're not saying that Arthur's the best male SSR AoE Saber just because there's no other male SSR Sabers, are we?
    Like, okay, there's no alternative answer to multi-class cavalry quests. I still consider her damage output merely mediocre dwindled even further because of the lack of buffs/debuffs with more or less steady uptime.
    I am not arguing she's awesome AOE dealer, she average. But if you decided to build AOE arts team and went to look for damage dealer, Kiara would be your first consideration for not only damage, but the versatility of covering Casters, Assassins, Berserkers and especially Riders who would probably love to tear your one caster (or maybe 2 casters) on the team a new one. I wouldnt argue cooldowns because these are an issue to be addressed when you build a team, sure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jennajayfeather View Post
    I mean I use Holmes a ton but I don't think he's anywhere near as useful as Waver or Merlin. He's definitely good and by far one of my favorite Servants to use but the gap between him and Waver/Merlin is quite far I believe.
    Holmes is both unique and extremely powerful at what he does, he's more like Tamamo in comparision to Waver and Merlin - not for general use, but for specific use. Doesnt take away from his unique, unmatched by anything else in the game NP.

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