Nasuverse Card Game!

[Mike1984]

Mike, I am sure you didn't check because you don't care, but there are other cards as weak if not weaker than Sakura. Should we remove/buff them as well?

Honestly I'd say, yes, they should be buffed, because a card that weak is not really of much use. Although, as Tang pointed out, Sakura is a special case, because she's going to have other cards aimed at buffing her and the like. I guess I should probably wait to see what they come up with before judging.

Let me see if I understand this, but thinking that there's nothing particularly wrong with the current Sakura card makes me a troll?

It's more your general attitude, really....

Currently:
Matou Sakura + Matou Shinji + Rider - Gorgon Breaker Medusa = free 5-6 star summonings, from what I can make of their abilities.

Well, I saw that, but at the moment it seemed like you'd be summoning lots of Sakuras, none of which could actually do anything.

In addition, as already mentioned, there are several cards already in development for her. From my perspective, that's simply her as an 'ordinary student'. Obviously it's not going to be very strong.

Well, I agree with that, but other "ordinary students" have special abilities.

Also, there seems to be a Dark Sakura card in the making. Since Kaoru seems to want people to create cards currently geared towards 'themes' (I'm working on Void Ryougi right now), and since a Sakura 'theme' is all but guaranteed, there's probably going to be several additional cards geared towards her. I wouldn't be surprised to be see at least two more forms not counting 'student' and 'dark' form. (For instance, Magus).

Yeah, I suppose. I did think that a HA Sakura card (or similar) would be a logical one, and probably some kind of combo with Shirou and maybe Rin would make sense.

You compared her to people like Ayako and said that she would be underplayed. But unlike Ayako, Sakura gets custom cards specifically dedicated to her and altering her abilities and what not. While Ayako and others are just, themselves.

True.

I did notice a few of those, but they didn't seem particularly useful in their current form. However, I guess that I'm trying to make a decision based on only half the deck, so....

tl;dr: I still don't see anything wrong with the card as it stands right now. Maybe in the future after all the Sakura 'themed' cards have been made and playtesting reveals her cards/combos to be lackluster, than she can get buffed. As it stands, it would be annoying to buff her now, wait until new cards come out which makes her op, and then nerf her again.

Yeah, I guess.

Anyway, when you actually get to the point that the Sakura theme is playable, I'll certainly be willing to help test it.

*In fact, just taking a quick glance through the developing cards, there are at least 5 which are specifically geared towards Matou Sakura.

Ah, OK.

Well, I can't see those cards, so....

**edit. Okay, that works correctly now. But quick question, should we remove the 'human' class from Zouken, or just leave it there?

Well, from a practical viewpoint, I'd say he's not really "human" any more, at least not any more than a Dead Apostle or a Servant are. From a gameplay viewpoint, it depends what the "human" class does, I guess, and whether you want him to be affected by it.

[Ergast]

After watching how many "Sakura themed" cards are creating, and Dark Sakura, I have to say that the "Matou Sakura" card (a level 3 card, by the way) has the stats it should have. Sakura is a weak card that comboing with other cards becomes a strong card.

Shirou is the same, by the way. If you have the crafted weapon cards or Saber card on the table, he becomes a monster, but if not, he is just your regular, low level, card.

So lol wut canon make ds better? In that case I demand that every main character (Shiki, Shiki and Shirou) card carry an effect of "you win."

Fix'd for you.

[Mike1984]

After watching how many "Sakura themed" cards are creating, and Dark Sakura, I have to say that the "Matou Sakura" card (a level 3 card, by the way) has the stats it should have. Sakura is a weak card that comboing with other cards becomes a strong card.

Well, like I said, I can't see all of those cards.

Shirou is the same, by the way. If you have the crafted weapon cards or Saber card on the table, he becomes a monster, but if not, he is just your regular, low level, card.

Well, looking at the existing cards, there seems to be a Shirou/Sakura connection too, actually.

[Ergast]

There would be more in the future.

At the moment Sakura doesn't have a theme, but she would have it. Shirou, on the other hand, with the right combo can become a monster with 8500 attack points, if I get it right how Crafted Weapons works (Shirou Emiya + Crafted weapon I+II+III+Unlimited Blades + Saber in the table = (1200+350+700+1000+1000)*2 = 8500 for one turn.

Even if that combo isn't possible, it would still be 6400 attack points. Plus Saber's 2700 attack points. If you have played depletion garden before playing all that cards, you have a completely indefense rival in front of you (sure, he can have a powerful monster, but I haven't seen anything able to withstand 6400-8500 points in the game. Plus Saber.

The only card that would protect you from that (very difficult to pull, I'll give you that) combo, is probably Dark Sakura, because that "you can't attack this card" clause.

[Mike1984]

Well, there are several Shirou/Sakura combo cards, so it seems to me that the two should be somewhat paired together, but without Saber Shirou seems somewhat useless, so....

[Ergast]

Crafted weapons makes him very poweful for a level 4 card. And then if you add Saber he becomes a monster. And Unlimited Blades.

he is a low-mid tier level 4 card with many magic and trap cards that reinforce him, and with Saber he becomes even stronger.

If you don't want to use Saber, crafted weapons and unlimited blades makes him useful at worst, and powerful at best (If I get right how crafted weapons works, he can surpase Princess of the white moon Arcueid attack with the three crafted weapons plus unlimited blades for one turn, by example)

[KaoruAoiShiho]

Annnddd War Hawk just overtakes me as #1.

[I3uster]

Ohh, Mike found the thread, this is where it gets interesting

Ok, I made a prana system that is unique and kinda fits in the Nasuverse mechanics:
Prana tokens.
They work like this: At the start of your turn you have the "prana step" this is the first step in the game. You gain x amount of prana in this step, depending on the amount of prana tokens you have (prana token is a design name for now) +1 (that is basically your "od"). After this, you can decide to generate 1 prana token via the following methods (you can only generate 1 prana token per turn, but you are free to choose how):
1) Sacrifice a monster (Story explanation: help with channeling/soul eating/using a little blood for a ritual, get creative here)
2) Skip your draw step (Discarding wouldn't be an option because that is too exploitable with revival cards, Story explanation: You try to focus)
3) Pay x amount of life (The right amount depends on balancing, Story explanation: You try to strain your circuits to channel more prana)

So, let's say I have 5 prana tokens. At the start of my turn, I gain 6 prana (1 od) and decide to skip my draw step. On the next turn I will gain 7 prana (1 od).
You do not HAVE to generate a token. This adds an element of resource management to the game. Do I decide to skip card advantage? Do I risk a little life for better monsters in the next few turns? Do I slow down my offense in exchange for stronger monsters later on?

I think this adds a cool tactical element without forcing you to play useless land cards like in Magic.
Prana does not empty at the end of your turn, so you can "save up" for stronger cards.
Of course there can be cards that influence your prana household, like the ryudo temple and maybe jewels
Tell me what you think! It is kind of a blueprint right now, but I think it fits kinda good with the theme of equivalent exchange.

So onto the next one:
We make Traps and Spell Cards Spells and Rituals.
A Spell can be casted with one word, that means it can be casted whenever you wish if you have the prana for it. A Ritual is hard work and takes longer, those can only be casted during your Main Phase.
That's pretty much just a cosmetic change, because "Trap Cards" do not make much sense in the Nasuverse.

Onto the next one, this time another unique system:
I propose that instead of making powerup cards like Riders Nail spell cards, make them their own type with their own rules:
Alterations. These can only be played at the same time with the monster you want to alter, and "stick" to the monster, powering them up.
This mechanic encourages another tactical decision: do I want to save some more prana and play an altered monster, or do I want it out fast.
Alterations go into the afterlife the moment the altered monster is killed.
These mechanics can be tweaked too, but what should stay is that you seperate Alterations from Spells, because things like the MEoDP or NPs are simply not spells, even when you are Shirou.

Also, do we have an official term for "monster" yet? I propose "ally"

And one last thing. Get rid of the last digit, it's always 0 anyway and makes the game look less like a Y-G-O ripoff


Tell me what you think folks!

[Nanaya]

You don't use prana for spells and rituals? Only alterations and ally cards? Or it varies? Prana for everything would really slow things down a ton. Alterations sound interesting. Would there be cards that add extra prana besides the 1/turn methods?

[I3uster]

Everything needs prana. The game would start slow the first 3 or so turns, because you basically have a pure mindgame phase there. "He is drawing and paying life instead, should I follow him? I am getting behind in card advantage" etc.
If you know the deck of your opponent this phase would be pretty interesting, besides it would be over fast anyway.

If it really starts out too slow we can tweak the od. Maybe raise it to 2, 3 would be a bad idea imo.

[Bloble]

I think the prana idea is pretty cool, and with some tweaking it could work pretty well. For example, since we don't want the first three or four turns to be slow, maybe we could start each player off with 5 - 10 prana, and let it increase from there. Also, would certain cards take up a certain amount of prana per turn when placed on the field, such as reality marbles or bounded fields? In addition, we could implement a system where depending on the strength of the card a certain toll must be paid in prana for some effects to activate, adding another level of resource management, and giving the strong cards like Arcueid who have ridiculous effects a high prana cost.

Or is this too similar to MtG? I've never really played it so I don't know if I'm unknowingly ripping it off.

[SeiKeo]

Nah, that's different enough from Magic.

[Tangerang]

The pay X life seems to have the potential to be broken, depending on how much life it is. Esp if you don't balance the life cost correctly. Also, I'm assuming the sacrifice creature thing would be only during your own turn, right? in other words, 'sorcery' speed (mtg)?

Well, I saw that, but at the moment it seemed like you'd be summoning lots of Sakuras, none of which could actually do anything.

The thing is, with just that, the Matou Sakura card is impossible to kill. Literally. Everytime it's sent to the afterlife, it gets brought back to your hand for free by Matou Shinji's ability. For reference, the only other card that can bring a card back from the afterlife off the top of my head cost 2000 life (someone check me on this?) In addition, if you look for references for other sets, I'd say that ability would probably be most similar to Squee (M.T.G.) or Sinister Serpent (YGO). If you take a look at both those cards, you'll notice their stats are pretty much near the bottom, because they're not meant to be beatsticks or strong. The ability to come back when dead so easily is already a strong ability in itself. Especially in YGO which requires a sacrifice mechanic to summon higher, strong cards, you're getting those summons for free essentially. Sac Matou Sakura to summon a 6 star creature, oh look, next turn she's already on the field again, ready for you to easily summon another 6 star creature. It's actually that one ability which makes her even stronger than the two references, because not only does she return from the afterlife, she also gets force invoked onto the field, which is essentially a free summon, meaning you still have another summon left that turn.

[Ruca_Milda]

Was it Really Worth It? Can summon two cards(Akiha and SHIKI) off the afterlife for nothing.

Princess of Snow also summons Ilya from anywhere.

Hand in Hand also allows you to summon either Saber, Rin or Shirou from the afterlife...

Though, honestly, I haven't seen anyone with Princess of Snow or Hand in Hand yet, only the one you mentioned(From the Flames) and Was it Really Worth It? .

[I3uster]

The pay X life seems to have the potential to be broken, depending on how much life it is. Esp if you don't balance the life cost correctly. Also, I'm assuming the sacrifice creature thing would be only during your own turn, right? in other words, 'sorcery' speed (mtg)?



The thing is, with just that, the Matou Sakura card is impossible to kill. Literally. Everytime it's sent to the afterlife, it gets brought back to your hand for free by Matou Shinji's ability. For reference, the only other card that can bring a card back from the afterlife off the top of my head cost 2000 life (someone check me on this?) In addition, if you look for references for other sets, I'd say that ability would probably be most similar to Squee (M.T.G.) or Sinister Serpent (YGO). If you take a look at both those cards, you'll notice their stats are pretty much near the bottom, because they're not meant to be beatsticks or strong. The ability to come back when dead so easily is already a strong ability in itself. Especially in YGO which requires a sacrifice mechanic to summon higher, strong cards, you're getting those summons for free essentially. Sac Matou Sakura to summon a 6 star creature, oh look, next turn she's already on the field again, ready for you to easily summon another 6 star creature. It's actually that one ability which makes her even stronger than the two references, because not only does she return from the afterlife, she also gets force invoked onto the field, which is essentially a free summon, meaning you still have another summon left that turn.

Arguing balance and making Sakura strong enough right now isn't a concern, we haven't even laid down the fundamentals of this game.
Right now we have some sort of extended Yu-Gi-Oh set, with a lot of creative ideas.

And I agree with Bloble, upkeep is a pretty good idea! It makes prana generation in the lategame a viable option.
My proposition for a "Servant template" would be the following:

A Servant has higher base stats than a card of equivalent cost, but the ability "Servant X" where X is a prana cost.
Each turn during your main phase you have to pay the prana cost OR sacrifice a creature (soul eating)

Additionally every Servant should have either and ability that costs prana (if the NP is active) or a passive ability (if the NP is passive).

From this mechanic you could make permanent spell cards like "The Holy Grail War" which reduce the upkeep of every Servant to 0, or by 2, or something like that.
It has a lot of potential to expand.

Also you could make the abilities of the Servants into alterations
For example the Servant Saber card has the ability: (5 prana: Destroy target ally).
The alteration "Excalibur" has the text (The altered ally gains the ability "5 prana: Destroy target ally")

Get what I mean?

[Nanaya]

Is Sakura not working as intended then Tang? Description says it is brought from your hand not the afterlife.

[Tangerang]

Is Sakura not working as intended then Tang? Description says it is brought from your hand not the afterlife.

The end of the turn thing, where it says return Sakura to your hand, even if she's not on the board.
It works even works when she's in the afterlife/graveyard.

@Ruca: I forgot about 'Was it Worth it', only remembered From the Flames. Regardless, those are one-times uses (I think?) while this on is continuous.

*now off to read the prana thing

**eh, first thing's first, now that I think about it, but how viable would it be to actually place these mechanics into place? I'm not a programming expert, so I don't know how easy or hard it would be.

[Bloble]

Actually, I think Excalibur would be more like: Pay 10 prana, destroy all of the opponent's monsters with attack lower than 2500.
We should try and make the costs for NPs similar to the originals, with 1 unit in the game being 100 units in actuality, so 10 units would translate to about 1000 prana, which is the rough activation cost of Excalibur.
So similarly, Gae Bolg would be something like: Pay 3 prana, automatically destroy 1 monster of your choosing. If the monster's defense points are higher than Lancer's attack points flip a coin, and if tails the targeted card will remain on the field but will be unable to attack for one turn.
Ea, which is just plain hax would be: Pay all remaining prana to destroy every card on the opponent's field. None of your cards may attack for the rest of your turn.
UBW could be rounded, so: Pay 3 prana to be totally awesome while breaking copyright laws.

[Ruca_Milda]

Just one thing: Before implementing Prana, can we please implement a monetary system for cards?

[I3uster]

Actually, I think Excalibur would be more like: Pay 10 prana, destroy all of the opponent's monsters with attack lower than 2500.
We should try and make the costs for NPs similar to the originals, with 1 unit in the game being 100 units in actuality, so 10 units would translate to about 1000 prana, which is the rough activation cost of Excalibur.
So similarly, Gae Bolg would be something like: Pay 3 prana, automatically destroy 1 monster of your choosing. If the monster's defense points are higher than Lancer's attack points flip a coin, and if tails the targeted card will remain on the field but will be unable to attack for one turn.
Ea, which is just plain hax would be: Pay all remaining prana to destroy every card on the opponent's field. None of your cards may attack for the rest of your turn.
UBW could be rounded, so: Pay 3 prana to be totally awesome while breaking copyright laws.

Yeah, I just used it as an example for implementing NPs as alterations.
But be careful with activated abilities: If they provide a too significant card advantage they can be broken quite easily, since you do not lose a card when you play them. Also: Servants are more cost effective than their normal ally counterparts, so giving them a good, card advantage providing effect while still being better...you see what I mean.

Just one thing: Before implementing Prana, can we please implement a monetary system for cards?

It's not even close to implementing anyway, I just wanted to kickstart the brainstorming a little.