Fate/Apocrypha Vol. 2 + 3 (no spoilers)

[GundamFSN]

Focus on your work!

[Gallereon]

I have to admit it, at first I wasn´t really that excited for a F/Apocrypha manga, but this has peak my interest.
Hopefully they can do a Tsukihime manga level adaptation.

[Sarn]

Focus on your work!

As if I could do that now...
I-It's still the lunch break so that's fine.

[Blanca]

Been lurking for a few months and as the series is just over half translated i suppose this isn't a bad place to step in and give my overall thoughts.

Fate/Apocrypha is the first LN i've read out of Japan (or atleast the translations thus far), don't despair or shed any wary thoughts for me if your a F/Apo hater, i knew what i was getting into even if i am a complete and utter outsider to the "Fate" universe. I genuinely wanted to read something with a unusual cast, but something that most people who "got it" seemed to agree was worth their time as well as being niche enough i could like it for what it is rather then hoping it was something it isn't. Its been ages since i've read a novel of any sort so part of my goal was to test my reading comprehension and i needed something from a weird universe (ala Fate) which required i payed attention and did some of my own research on the series to understand it properly.

The series initially stands out for having such a large cast of characters who all play a role, often very odd or unusual characters at that. This should be a disaster as any reasonable author would want to keep things nice and tidy, further making this tricky is how unusual some of the characters are yet what endeared me is specifically the character development itself. With many of the characters Higashide sort of tricks the reader into writing some of them off as either worthless, of little value, or too unsavory/unlikable and then pulls you back in by giving them human aspects one wouldn't usually find in a series like this almost as if he is saying "don't judge characters by the first impression they give you", very recently Gordes became one of these characters, and very very early on Astolfo could be seen this way as well until he initially saved Seig and slowly said character started developing, completely changing after that (i'll admit im baised here as i thought he was kinda cute beforehand but often don't expect much out of traps as "characters" sadly, so thanks Astolfo for proving me wrong !!) To me this is one of the best things about Apocrypha, if you start paying attention then you realize the odd way it is written has a purpose which is often lacking in many novels like this, i suppose akin to "don't judge somebody by first impressions."

So far as the novel and how its gone so far, In some cases i wish things could of turned out a bit differently, for example it would of been great if frankenstein could of lasted a bit longer as i was just starting to really like her. In a turn from how most of the cast develops i wouldn't have minded if Celenike wasn't such a 1 dimensional and hateworthy character, similar but not to the same degree with Jack the Ripper, atleast with Jack the hate you disdain one may feel for the character is written in such a way it drives the character to have more meaning in regards to the story. (sidenote: i did skip "Unbirth" due to its very very lackluster reviews, and don't regret it)

Really there are alot of little things, ideally more light-hearted sounding stuff i'd love to comment on, but on the whole just thought i'd say Thank You to Canon and the crew for translating this. Its a weird story, but so far a fairly wonderful one and the journey has been worth it. I'm just sad there are so many F/Apo naysayers out there as in reality anything that could be called "bad" about it isn't so much objectively bad as it is subjectively against the norm of most story writing in this genre. As somebody who dips their toes into Japanese literature,manga and anime rather then lives and breathes it i hope that can be seen as a high compliment.

Keep up the good work

[You]

good post +1

[Sarn]

+2 (see this is why we need a "fav post" button)
I agree with most of what you said; whether good or bad. Although I still have hope for Fran, we're at only half of the series so far.

[Stasis]

it isn't so much objectively bad as it is subjectively against the norm of most story writing in this genre.

Jack the ripper is objectively against the norm of decency. I mean you yourself don't regret not having read Unbirth.

Good post nonetheless. Although I don't totally agree.

[Blanca]

Jack the ripper is objectively against the norm of decency. I mean you yourself don't regret not having read Unbirth.

Good post nonetheless. Although I don't totally agree.

i dono

I guess i'm saying i've liked it alot more then some would of had me believe i could of liked it, maybe a case where the critics are much loader then the fans on certain corners of the internet. I read the whole thing somewhat slowly voicing the characters and imagining the cinematics when possible rather then rushing it and that worked well for me. Also, Although i'm sure this isn't universally true i've noticed most fate outsiders or much more casual readers/fans seemed to like it and have more fun with reading it then some of the definitive fate fans. The fact Seig becomes such a important character in F/Apo yet he seems to have very little if anything to do with the established framework other fate series follow is probably a big part here. I personally really like him where older fate fans are probably like "what the hell is this?!?!, gib me back the real Seigfried you pathetic lil homunculus! this isn't even a proper heroic spirit!!!"

Forgetting all that i do agree with others who hold out hope that a manga adaption could make it more universally appealing (or in the naysayers point of view, readable), and that although i'd really love to see a anime of Apocrypha i would only want to see it if it was very well directed as it would be all too easy to do it the wrong way and focus way too much time (which there is precious little of given the huge cast) on points of lesser importance rather then the stuff that has made the story tick.


Anyways heres to hoping it continues with more dream sequences as i was really liked where that was going so far

[You]

where are you finding these critics?

[mewarmo990]

where are you finding these critics?

Must be these people.

[Blanca]

where are you finding these critics?

Above image might actually be relevant but I'm Ameri-scrub so no way of knowing its reviews in Japan, so from my angle combination of posts here, reddit, 4chan (well, 4chan archiving websites), myanimelist and a few independent write-ups i found such as on tumblr just by searching for "apocrypha review" basically.

now i feel like a dork :<

edit: if above image is related then you can atleast say Apo is very polarizing XD, anyways i'll bug off for a bit, feel like i've been posting disproportionately to others

[mewarmo990]

that's just the Amazon page for volume 1, anyway. Review scores for the later volumes seem to be slightly better.

[Altaris]

I don't think Apocrypha is that polarizing. Most people I know think it's just kinda mediocre throughout.

Like, good concept, meh execution

[castor212]

Imo the writing is mediocre but the core story is good.

Tho vol2 felt really good

[Blanca]

Imo the writing is mediocre but the core story is good.

Tho vol2 felt really good

I think its this, for example before when i said "i like the character development" that could be misread a bit, what i meant was i like how the characters are developed, pretty much literally, but with quite a few of them there is too little time or focus on them to do what would normally be considered proper character development as in seeing inside their day to day life etc. Or as a different example take Frankenstein, i really started liking her once things kicked off but at times there was 50-80+ pages between the parts that featured her and all of the said parts with her where fairly short, it required a decent memory and alot of flexibility in regards to immersing oneself in the story then what a better author would of put the reader through.

Im still enjoying the hell out of it but i sort of adjusted to it, a more critical and or less interested reader will just tire of the writing style before ever taking interest in the story or the characters.

that's just the Amazon page for volume 1, anyway. Review scores for the later volumes seem to be slightly better.

ya i found it after posting and noticed that too

Its kinda scattered though as some people treated the review for the first novel as a review for the greater body of work if you translate the page and read through some of them.

[Stasis]

Must be these people.

Damn you rarely see so disparate a poll. Most of the time it's either full bad or full good.

Also, Although i'm sure this isn't universally true i've noticed most fate outsiders or much more casual readers/fans seemed to like it and have more fun with reading it then some of the definitive fate fans.

Yeah I know, right? Same happened with Zero. Not with SF though, but that's Narita being Narita.

[Aozaki-desu]

Most parts of Apo are really good at least in concept and in my opinion execution was decent. Its the parts that arent "really good" that stand out once you stop reading and start thinking about big picture. Though most of those i suppose could be overlooked but some of them...Like the moment i started reading the part about certain homunculi i just had this distinct "oh no please dont" feeling.

[GundamFSN]

I want to read more Sieg x Astolfo moment tbh.

Not that I'm finding anymore as far as I have read (volume 2).

Pretty sure there's a lunch scene with Mordred later. I guess I can look forward to that.

[Blanca]

I want to read more Sieg x Astolfo moment tbh.

Whats legit about Astolfo is that he seems to be slightly insane in a entertaining way, but its a different type of insanity that i haven't seen before and it makes him interesting while working with the character. Basically its like instead of shutting down and becoming PTSD or something he instead traded his ability to reason with foreseight as well as doubt himself for enjoying life to the maximum, knocking all doubts to the side without a care, taking all questions and criticisms and just following his instincts or what he sees as true. Its fictionalized but its a really nice alternative to the regular war torn veteran who is completely broken at heart.

Seig? I like him too, but at this point i've rationalized why he really makes no sense to anybody who was properly involved in the Fate series before Apocyrpha (aka 90% of people that would look into it, sadly). As is i consider Apocrypha the title that is meant to bring more new fans to the series (it worked for me) at the cost of being slightly annoying to older fans....Seig probably being a large part of this divide as his origins as a homunculus have nothing to do with mythology or the idea of Heroic Spirits that usually define the Fate franchise.

[Spartacus]

To be honest the idea of a henshin Siegfried is cool, but Sieg is kinda- I dunno, uninteresting? Sieg being non-HS also gave him the opportunity to gain more creative shonen upgrade, unlike most of the HS which powerset are bound to their legends. So I can see that the writer think it's a good idea, but somewhat subpar in the execution.