2Deep4Me or "How I learned to stop thinking and enjoy the headcanon"

[I3uster]

Making her a "bitch" kind of breaks what Nasu wanted to do from my point of view.

Honestly pulling stuff like this requires more nuance than Nasu works with most of the time. I can agree that she was badly executed but even if she was done better she'd probably still not be recieved well, because the way this is set up does not make her traditionally sympathetic. Which is why Nasu tried to tap deep into the abuse victim moe everyone loves.

[CG-3m1y4]

Like, Jesus if he was motivated by boning the big titty sinners I guess.

This idea actually makes me want to see how far Shirou/Emiya and Kiara would go as a lovebirds.

Is this even possible?

[ItsaRandomUsername]

Whosoever has not desired the boobs should cast the first sto--wait, all you lolicons, get out.

Retort #1:
Tits're tits, braugh.

Retort#2:
Akiha fans frown upon this sentiment.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Akiha fans frown upon this sentiment.

Akiha is flat, younger, and her whole schtick is calling you niisan. That checks off like all the requisite lolicon charm points besides being like ten.

[CG-3m1y4]

And that's what makes CP Akiha best, because she regressed to being 4 years old due to Kohaku drugging her tea.

[Christemo]

Making her a "bitch" kind of breaks what Nasu wanted to do from my point of view.

Then Nasu needs to want to do better hue

No but really his most sympathetic character is a murderer who literally can only feel good from suffering and killing, so I have faith he'd have been able to do it.

[Rafflesiac]

And that's what makes CP Akiha best, because she regressed to being 4 years old due to Kohaku drugging her tea.

God was that chapter uncomfortable.

[Rai Burnout]

Whosoever has not desired the boobs should cast the first sto--wait, all you lolicons, get out.

For Man so loved breasts... that whosoever enjoyed them shall not suffer but have everlasting peace.
John BigEpeen:

[UnlimitedBladeWorks]

That was the best episode no questions asked.

[Nihilm]

I personally think it's possible to empathize with Shirou's desperate quest to save someone he loves, even if you don't love that person.

I basically had the same reaction to HF, I didn't particularly like Sakura, but I could appreciate that it was kind of beautiful to see how far Shirou was willing to go for her.

Retort#2:
Akiha fans frown upon this sentiment.

My literal reaction.

Akiha is flat, younger, and her whole schtick is calling you niisan. That checks off like all the requisite lolicon charm points besides being like ten.

This is actually a cool thread. Keep up making cool threads.

Maybe I'll reply to that Sakura post but long story short is that upon rereading select scenes of HF in arguments over and over I feel that Nasu wanted to deliberatey puff up the guiltless saint kind of image to contrast it with her actions in the story to make Sakura a baseline of a sympathetic character that then lashes out. Ages ago I compared her to a school shooter, I think that comparison is still apt. The story just puts a bit more effort in reinforcing that she was more or less forced on this path.

In the dialog surrounding shit like this you always find people that either try to frame an incident like that like the victim was a psychopath who was enabled through external factors and willing isolation or the other side that sees a victim that has been driven to this kind of thing. Due to the division here I think Nasu tried to blow up the suffering factor to make it clear what his preferred interpretation in that particular case is, and thus ironically broke immersion and make people adhere to the former interpretation due to sheer annoyance.

I don't know how I can say this without sounding like an edgy 14-year old but I've always been really interested in cases like that because I think the general reaction of a society to a spree shooting can tell you a lot about the priorities of political and social movements. Which by extension and by that particular point of view makes me like Sakura even if her execution trips a bit. But I at least understand why Nasu wanted to do it this way. I just feel that the interpretation that she's some kind of faultless saint that is adhered to by a few Sakura-fans here (no Altima it's not just you) makes her less interesting and less flawed, a bit like the "Rin is the perfect waifu" interpretation guts Rin's character.

angra mainyu is teenage brain chemistry

This is actually a really cool way to look at it, I think in a way it is the way I looked at it after first reading it, but I wouldn't have quite put it in words like that.

Well, that's looking at it from the outside in, which is sorta what I'm pointing out. Shirou saving people is altruistic on the outside, but he does it for his own satisfaction, which isn't. The same can be said for saving the girl he's most attached to being less altruistic, but really it's just more human. Whether they have a reason to be saved/are innocent versus no reason/are guilty is irrelevant since that never really mattered to him in the first place.

I can agree with this, but then again it makes you think if truly selfless behaviour really exists at all. Whether your doing it for the rush of saving someone or the feeling you get when you do something good, there is probably a way to interpret any action as a selfish one.

[black1blade]

angra mainyu is teenage brain chemistry

I would like to think I'm not as insane as angra maiyu. I wouldn't go on a murder spree lets put it that way.

- - - Updated - - -

I like sakura in an ironic way. I can understand how Shirou would've gone to such length to protect even though she's killed 100s of people. At the end of the day protecting the people you love is human nature.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

I can agree with this, but then again it makes you think if truly selfless behaviour really exists at all. Whether your doing it for the rush of saving someone or the feeling you get when you do something good, there is probably a way to interpret any action as a selfish one.

Well, of course, but it's still explicitly laid out for you in the VN that Shirou isn't doing it out of an actual sense of justice or an actual desire to be altruistic, he's doing it because therein lies his only happiness. It'd be easier to argue back and forth with whether he's objectively so or not if it weren't explicitly "I am only smiley on the inside when other people are."

[black1blade]

If you think about it there isn't much he can be smiley about. His family is dead as is his beloved adoptive father. There no point is doing things for himself because he has nothing that he wants because it's all been taken away with that and he's used to having nothing so instead he helps other that he believes are worth more than himself. That's how I view it anyway. I can relate to the fact that I feel quite worthless from time to time.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Or, you could, you know, generate new things in your life, which is what normal people do.

By which I mean make babies.

[black1blade]

I did say from time to time. I like to think I'm quite creative it's just that I don't have the drive to do so.

[Nihilm]

Well, of course, but it's still explicitly laid out for you in the VN that Shirou isn't doing it out of an actual sense of justice or an actual desire to be altruistic, he's doing it because therein lies his only happiness. It'd be easier to argue back and forth with whether he's objectively so or not if it weren't explicitly "I am only smiley on the inside when other people are."

True, true. But to me the entire concept of what constitutes an altruistic action is invalidated when it's so easy to just say that wasn't selfless because it made you feel good/you did it to look good/ulterior motive # 1, 2 or 3. So I just tend to count actions that primarily help others without a detriment to them regardless of what benefits you gain from them as altruistic.

So helping someone depressed by talking to them is altruistic regardless if your doing it for the good feeling you get out of it or not because there is no detriment to the person your helping, but painting an art commision for somebody that paid for it isn't because the detriment is expressed in the money they are paying you.

Alternatively you can say that it's human to be selfish and everyone is always selfish.

[black1blade]

People may argue if your being truly selfless if your doing it to make yourself feel good.

[I3uster]

what if feeling good about doing good is what makes a person a good person in the first place

woah man

[black1blade]

Deep stuff. It meant about the argument that all humans are selfish.

[Christemo]

People may argue if your being truly selfless if your doing it to make yourself feel good.

True altruism is a concept. Humans do, on some level, do everything they do for their own benefit, even if that's just self-satisfaction.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with that. It's good to not have illusions about reality.