2Deep4Me or "How I learned to stop thinking and enjoy the headcanon"

[I3uster]

is this the closest were gonna get because you still cant tell me what you base this "eyes make you like muder" thing on

id rather not have this end in frustration

this was really fun

i didnt have a GD argument in a while and a tsuki one to boot is like christmas

[Tobias]

I already told you, its an assumption.

We know shiki's love of killing is not a facet of his nanaya side. he only has one other trait that is related to death. Its reasonable to assume that trait is related if not directly responsible. I mean its worth noting in prologue shiki straight up bragged about how cool killing with death perception was before aoko slapped some sense in him.

but ok, ill turn it back to you. if its not because he is a nanaya, and its not because of his eyes, why is shiki a killer?

[I3uster]

I already straight up told you, its an assumption.

Alright then, that's all I really wanted.

As for other options I gave you a few dartboard guesses, I merely suggest eliminating the one that does the exact opposite (MEoDP)

[Tobias]

remind me again those dartboard guesses?

cause the way I see it I can come up with only three

Nanaya (provably wrong)

the eyes (some hints, certainly not provable)

pure chance (possible but very unlikely)

did I miss anything that deserves a harder look?

[I3uster]

Maybe. Maybe not.

im a mysterious existence

my secrets can only be unlocked by reading what i wrote

[Mcjon01]

Maybe murder just feels good by itself, and you either have to be broken or specifically train yourself to not enjoy it. Because the number of people who get addicted to it in the Nasuverse is well above what you'd expect from chance.

[I3uster]

That's just H-game writing not discriminating between different forms of penetration.

[Tobias]

Maybe murder just feels good by itself, and you either have to be broken or specifically train yourself to not enjoy it. Because the number of people who get addicted to it in the Nasuverse is well above what you'd expect from chance.

sorry mcjon, nobody is listening to your theories anymore since we found out you give such horrible advice

yesterday you said you shouldn't do incest, but to a lot of people that would eliminate both akiha and taiga.

So according to you, the best thing to do is not sleep with two of the best girls in the nasuverse or else your kids might get super powers.

[Seika]

Maybe murder just feels good by itself, and you either have to be broken or specifically train yourself to not enjoy it. Because the number of people who get addicted to it in the Nasuverse is well above what you'd expect from chance.

So saith the devil; and his number is 666.

I freely admit to being bad at Tsuki in general, but I kind of want to see Bridge's longpost (when he's not falling asleep) on why we have to dismiss SHIKI so quickly, because that was where I tended to see the non-assassin murder impulses coming from.

[Tobias]

You are mixing up to different concepts. One is nanaya the person/child, the other is an amalgation of the training, beliefs,and drives that shiki has ingrained into his subconscious.

nanaya the boy is long gone, but shiki still knows that there is no need to mouth off to someone you are going to kill anyway, and instead should use the energy the would use to speak to kill even faster, or that its third rate to take pleasure in killing.

EDIT: also, SHIKI's changes in the routes follow a well defined and logical progression, what are you talking about?

[Seika]

SHIKI is a bit like the Gilgamesh of Tsukihime, role-wise, he's the dude who's always the villain but whose motivation and acting in the story changes wildly to fit the story's necessities.
In one route, he's Roa and wants that Arc pussy
In another, he's SHIKI and an uber-siscon.
In another, he's the ultimate loon, incapacitated physically, and he rapes readheads.

In other words, he's always a dark reflection of the protagonist: he takes what Shiki is already experiencing, magnifies and perverts it.

To be sure that I understand: your position is that SHIKI's impact on Shiki is so inconsistent, for various reasons, throughout the VN that he cannot be the driving force behind a pretty omnipresent character trait?

I see the reasoning, but I guess I'd then say that there's SHIKI himself in his various attitudes and there's SHIKI's blood, his Inversion Impulse, his murderous drive, which I think one could plausibly see as an influence even where his outer personality isn't quite the same. I offer also that he's perhaps a more consistent influence than you imply:

Though the Roa that appears in Tsukihime has a rather brutal personality, that's because he's using Tohno SHIKI as his base. The original Roa was a calm intellectual.

(I swear there's another quote about SHIKI and Roa's influences on each other - and something to do with Arc bringing out Roa more clearly? - but I can't find it right now).

[Tobias]

It's there seika. Specifically, cap's personality is strong enough do to his own innate potential and kohaku's machinations that he and Roa are essentially struggling for control. When shiki begins interacting with arc regularly, that gives roa the willpower needed to gain mastery of caps, when shiki spends more time with akiha and kohaku, caps is actually able to overwhelm roa.

there are a few lines in the VN where one or the other will mention having gained full or nearly full control over the other.

[Seika]

No, I mean like another Nasu comment on the whole thing - the variation between Near and Far sides was the focus, I think.

Dammit, I really want to be able to search strings of three letters. 'Roa' is a totally useless term with this forum's software.

[I3uster]

But this whole discussion started for the sexualization of murder in Shiki's thought and actions, which remains difficult to explain through SHIKI's Impulse: that stuff is "only" supposed to make you a cannibal, not to give you stiffies while eating people.

why is elesia not wearing pants

[aldeayeah]

It always puzzled me how Satsuki, of all people, could see the killer in Shiki.

She certainly has a talent.

[Peanut-007]

Weren't Satsuki's issues more depression and being a fuckmothering vampire though?

[Mcjon01]

Where did you get the depression bit from, honestly?

Meta Satsuki.

[Leftovers]

outdone by memes, i feel like killing myself

[I3uster]

its very telling how saber and sakura fall apart once they leave their routes (wow im happy you found your conclusion in ubw saber why did you need that whole shirou assisted introspection again, wow nice how you are absolutely irrelevant in every other route sakura) and rin gains an additional dimension to her character in a route where she and the protagonist do not enter a romantic relationship

if i was on tumblr id come up with a rin tohsaka test for eroge right now but im gonna spare you that out of the goodness of my heart

[Kotonoha]

if i was on tumblr id come up with a rin tohsaka test for eroge right now but im gonna spare you that out of the goodness of my heart

remember when people were so upset about criticism that pacific rim didn't pass the bechdel test that they made a "mako mori test" that was just "if there's a girl in it you win"