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Thread: 2Deep4Me or "How I learned to stop thinking and enjoy the headcanon"

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    Inactive Bridgeburner's Avatar
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    2Deep4Me or "How I learned to stop thinking and enjoy the headcanon"

    I was thinking today a thing: that we have all manners of threads for the ancillaries to the story, a few for their protagonists and basically none for the stories themselves.
    That left me confused, especially when the TM fandom makes a thing of throwing around the big words of "theme", "message", "symbol" and so on like they were used used condoms.

    Hence this thread. But not, of course, to discuss the basic level of reading. I don't think we precisely need a circlejerk about how "F/SN routes examine the possibility of heroism in increasingly cynical ways".


    In other words, here's the principle: put here your ideas, your interpretations or even just the impressions that the reading left on you. Was Tohno's carpe diem for you an allusion to modern materialism and anxiety? Was Ryougi's identity complex a stand-in for Japanese postwar national re-identification?

    or did you only notice something vaguely phallocentric about shirou


    Anyway that's it, with one recommendation and one rule:
    1)Be as original as you can be, it will totally make your e-peen bigger.
    2)You'll still need to defend your thesis, otherwise the e-peen is going to stay just like your RL one.

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    ぐぬぬ Kirby's Avatar
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    inb4 fate route and sexism

    But IIRC, Dulla made post about murder in KnK being a stand-in for sexual activity, and how the story itself is about reinforcing traditional values or something like that. It was cool to read. brb

    - - - Updated - - -

    tadaa

    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    Obviously, the entire 'murder' thing with Ryougi is an extended metaphor for repressed sexuality as a result of growing up in a very prudish, traditional family. In MSP1, Shiki/SHIKI manifests a tatemae/honne dichotomy so extreme as to come across as different personalities entirely. Caught in the conflict between the expectations placed on her behaviour and her growing-to-be-overwhelming attraction to Kokutou, she eventually has a psychotic break and tries to rape him:

    Fortunately, 'Shiki', who embodies the values she's had beaten into her since childhood, wrests control and immediately tries to commit suicide out of shame. The entire rest of the story is an internal conflict centered around sex addiction. MEoDP are a metaphor for constant intrusive thoughts of a sexual nature (I had a joke about Mystic Eyes of 'D' Perception, but I've got more class than that, don't I?) The conflict is between the traditional values espoused by her grandfather ('you can only kill one person in your life' can here be interpreted as 'monogamy 4 lyfe, otherwise you're a useless whore') and her own desire to slut it up as much as possible. The latter manifests through her persistent attempts to lose her virginity to a string of casual, self-destructive relationships with:

    A runaway street kid she just met one night...

    ...a much older guy who's into some kinky bondage shit and only wants her for her body...

    ...and some loser drug dealer she once knew from school. Eventually, however, with Kokutou's support she's able to overcome her addiction in order to be the pure waifu she knew she always had it in her to be. tl;dr - murder is sex, Ryougi is a repressed nympho, and Kara no Kyoukai is a paean to traditional Japanese gender roles. Search your feelings, you know this to be true.
    [21:58 PM] <Spinach> I wish Kirby was real


    Linger: Complete. August, 1995. I met him. A branch off Part 3. Mikiya keeps his promise to meet Azaka, and meets again with that mysterious girl he once found in the rain.
    Shinkai: Set in the Edo period. DHO-centric. As mysterious figures gather in the city, a young woman unearths the dark secrets of the Asakami family.
    The Dollkeeper: A Fate side-story. The memoirs of the last tuner of the Einzberns. A record of the end of a family.
    Overcount 2030: Extra x Notes. A girl with no memories is found by a nameless soldier, and wakes up to a world of war.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SeiKeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgeburner90 View Post
    Was Ryougi's identity complex a stand-in for Japanese postwar national re-identification?
    Correct.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And everyone who reads the various routes of Fate/Stay as having some sort of equivalence and not being thematically linear leading to a conclusion in HF is totally wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    That time they checked out that hot guy they were just admiring his watch, yeah?


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    Inactive Bridgeburner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hong Kong Walmart View Post
    Correct.
    I don't even agree with that but it was a cool idea so why not

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    ぐぬぬ Kirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hong Kong Walmart View Post
    Correct.\
    someone explain
    [21:58 PM] <Spinach> I wish Kirby was real


    Linger: Complete. August, 1995. I met him. A branch off Part 3. Mikiya keeps his promise to meet Azaka, and meets again with that mysterious girl he once found in the rain.
    Shinkai: Set in the Edo period. DHO-centric. As mysterious figures gather in the city, a young woman unearths the dark secrets of the Asakami family.
    The Dollkeeper: A Fate side-story. The memoirs of the last tuner of the Einzberns. A record of the end of a family.
    Overcount 2030: Extra x Notes. A girl with no memories is found by a nameless soldier, and wakes up to a world of war.

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    Fuckin' chicken grill!!! Kotonoha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hong Kong Walmart View Post
    And everyone who reads the various routes of Fate/Stay as having some sort of equivalence and not being thematically linear leading to a conclusion in HF is totally wrong.
    Take that, Nasu.

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    Inactive Bridgeburner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hong Kong Walmart View Post
    And everyone who reads the various routes of Fate/Stay as having some sort of equivalence and not being thematically linear leading to a conclusion in HF is totally wrong.
    Are you so against considering the author's viewpoint as to ignore what even the VN says, about the first route making a question that gets two different answers?

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    ぐぬぬ Kirby's Avatar
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    something something death of the author

    also, just noticed that it can be abbreviated as "dota". huh
    [21:58 PM] <Spinach> I wish Kirby was real


    Linger: Complete. August, 1995. I met him. A branch off Part 3. Mikiya keeps his promise to meet Azaka, and meets again with that mysterious girl he once found in the rain.
    Shinkai: Set in the Edo period. DHO-centric. As mysterious figures gather in the city, a young woman unearths the dark secrets of the Asakami family.
    The Dollkeeper: A Fate side-story. The memoirs of the last tuner of the Einzberns. A record of the end of a family.
    Overcount 2030: Extra x Notes. A girl with no memories is found by a nameless soldier, and wakes up to a world of war.

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    Fuckin' chicken grill!!! Kotonoha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
    something something death of the author

    also, just noticed that it can be abbreviated as "dota". huh
    ummmm excuse me, but


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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SeiKeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgeburner90 View Post
    Are you so against considering the author's viewpoint as to ignore what even the VN says, about the first route making a question that gets two different answers?
    Pretty much. Order actually matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
    someone explain
    It's actually my idea so I guess I'll see if I can find an old post because I swear I've made at least a short version of that post on BL proper.
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    That time they checked out that hot guy they were just admiring his watch, yeah?


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    ぐぬぬ Kirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hong Kong Walmart View Post
    Pretty much. Order actually matters.
    Does the fact that Last Episode comes after HF have any significance regarding its theme?

    inb4 its fanfiction
    [21:58 PM] <Spinach> I wish Kirby was real


    Linger: Complete. August, 1995. I met him. A branch off Part 3. Mikiya keeps his promise to meet Azaka, and meets again with that mysterious girl he once found in the rain.
    Shinkai: Set in the Edo period. DHO-centric. As mysterious figures gather in the city, a young woman unearths the dark secrets of the Asakami family.
    The Dollkeeper: A Fate side-story. The memoirs of the last tuner of the Einzberns. A record of the end of a family.
    Overcount 2030: Extra x Notes. A girl with no memories is found by a nameless soldier, and wakes up to a world of war.

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    Lebenswichtige Reaktion: 1 Dullahan's Avatar
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    Is this the right place for in-depth character analysis, then? 'cause I have a theory about Lio and Tomoe being foils to one another I've been wanting to put into words for a while.

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    ぐぬぬ Kirby's Avatar
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    Post it.
    [21:58 PM] <Spinach> I wish Kirby was real


    Linger: Complete. August, 1995. I met him. A branch off Part 3. Mikiya keeps his promise to meet Azaka, and meets again with that mysterious girl he once found in the rain.
    Shinkai: Set in the Edo period. DHO-centric. As mysterious figures gather in the city, a young woman unearths the dark secrets of the Asakami family.
    The Dollkeeper: A Fate side-story. The memoirs of the last tuner of the Einzberns. A record of the end of a family.
    Overcount 2030: Extra x Notes. A girl with no memories is found by a nameless soldier, and wakes up to a world of war.

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    Renegade Noodle Lycodrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    Is this the right place for in-depth character analysis, then? 'cause I have a theory about Lio and Tomoe being foils to one another I've been wanting to put into words for a while.
    Dullahan theories are best theories.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    Yes, excellent. Go, Lyco, my proxy.

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    Lebenswichtige Reaktion: 1 Dullahan's Avatar
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    It's like 3 am here and I need to sleep. I'll do it later. I need time to find all the passages in the original runes that support me.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SeiKeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
    Does the fact that Last Episode comes after HF have any significance regarding its theme?

    inb4 its fanfiction
    Depends on if you actually want to treat it as part of Fate proper. I think it makes more sense to think about what it is without LE and what it is with LE than trying to pretend there can only be one version of Fate and then arguing over what it should consist of.
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    That time they checked out that hot guy they were just admiring his watch, yeah?


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    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    I think Saber is cute and sometiems Rin makes me feel all doki doki. But I think the girls in Tsukihime are pretty cute too. I honestly don't know where you guys are getting all this stuff, it wasn't in my reading of the works at all.

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    ぐぬぬ Kirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hong Kong Walmart View Post
    Depends on if you actually want to treat it as part of Fate proper. I think it makes more sense to think about what it is without LE and what it is with LE than trying to pretend there can only be one version of Fate and then arguing over what it should consist of.
    So if we were to say Fate includes LE, would the fact that it comes only at the very end affect the theme in any significant way?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    I think Saber is cute and sometiems Rin makes me feel all doki doki. But I think the girls in Tsukihime are pretty cute too. I honestly don't know where you guys are getting all this stuff, it wasn't in my reading of the works at all.
    who makes you feel more doki doki: saber or rin?
    [21:58 PM] <Spinach> I wish Kirby was real


    Linger: Complete. August, 1995. I met him. A branch off Part 3. Mikiya keeps his promise to meet Azaka, and meets again with that mysterious girl he once found in the rain.
    Shinkai: Set in the Edo period. DHO-centric. As mysterious figures gather in the city, a young woman unearths the dark secrets of the Asakami family.
    The Dollkeeper: A Fate side-story. The memoirs of the last tuner of the Einzberns. A record of the end of a family.
    Overcount 2030: Extra x Notes. A girl with no memories is found by a nameless soldier, and wakes up to a world of war.

  19. #19
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
    who makes you feel more doki doki: saber or rin?
    Both at once.

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    俺様 Cruor's Avatar
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    Random bit (its just a thought I had when I seen the 2deep4me thing) but, I don't understand the concept of concepts in Nasuverse like at all.

    Its so abstract you see. I mean, literally just from looking at my latest posts, I can't even begin to explain the Unified Language without fucking babble. Then there's shit like Ries' scripture with its power of 'Ruin' and how it prevents her from being digested despite the shield obviously being unable to defend her entire body. Or yeah, that argument a few days ago where someone asked if Rider can just say 'I'm over here' to cause Perseus who was looking at a mirror to freeze (which doesn't work because mirror concepts).

    Then we got everything to do with the MEoDP and the 'lol cut concepts'. Like jesus fuck what does that even mean. Even the fuyuki dictionary article on concepts is babble.


    Concept
    概念 - Gainen
    The soul. The driving word in Kinoko works. Concepts, rules, and beliefs are what drive and even shape the universe.
    Last edited by Cruor; December 11th, 2014 at 03:17 PM.
    The Hall of Selected Cruor Praise
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
    Oh right.

    GLORIOUS CRUOR SENPAI RECOMMENDED THIS TO ME HE IS THE BEST USER EVER
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    1. Your favourite character and why.
    Curor, I mean the man likes DDD, he must have had a hard life, yet he's still trying so hard.
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    Cruor is so handsome and nice I want to brush his perfect hair and maybe caress his rosy cheeks. Now put me in your sig ya fuck
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    If only people praised me as much as they praise you, Cruor-sama!
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    Cruor is very nice

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