Ilya knew that Shirou could give Rin the Jewelled Sword. That, on it's own, doesn't save Sakura. Without Shirou stepping in with Rule Breaker after Rin has performed an armor-piercing hug, you'd still have a bad end - Sakura didn't seem able to stop what had been started, by herself.
No, Lantz, I'm making the point that unless you actually state your case, all I have to go on are your vague assertions, which are pretty damned vague.
Last edited by Trevelyan; December 2nd, 2011 at 08:10 PM.
Ouch. I disagree, but if that is how you feel...Originally Posted by Radiantbeam
Ilya knew about the gate to the other side being accidentally opened, which was why she was tainted in the first place. The solution would have been to close it.
"Fate/stay night: not really an eroge, and not really a cooking sim, but actually an RPG wherein everyone’s primary stat is “self-loathing” and the goal is to level it up beyond all the other characters."
Oh, right, that makes more sense.
ok ok you're new here or whatever. look rider's entire character has been backward and forward and upside down combed and styled at this point on bl. we've analyized her every way possible. fact is Rider cares more for Sakura then possibly HF shirou. and more then just I will tell you that. I don't feel the need to whip out evidence because, to be frank I've never found a person before you that thinks rider is an uncaring bitch toward Sakura.No, Lantz, I'm making the point that unless you actually state your case, all I have to go on are your vague assertions, which are pretty damned vague.
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it is my firm belief that regarding the ban of mike1984 I have been given insufficient reason for the affair and it's conclusion, further than this I feel that the light manner it has been treated in is appalling. It is my sincere hope that he is not regarded in the same way as actually malicious posters who have appeared on beast's lair or otherwise as a joke to be snickered at when spoken of in the future. I will not forget my friend or view him in the manner those in charge here have presented him and his actions, nor will I accept the situation as it stands where people snicker at him as if he were a joke.
Wut? You don't have anything to say, so you resort to LOLNOOB and BL DUN DIS ALREDY. Sorry bro, but I've been a member of BL and the Fate fandom for, oh, four years. But that's OK - you can't even construct an argument properly, let alone follow it without changing the goalposts.
My point wasn't that Rider hates Sakura, or that she does nothing*. My point was, in regards to killing Sakura in that particular bad end, stopping it from happening when you don't have a solution can be seen as making Sakura's suffering last longer - and even making it worse, because the next day, suddenly Angra Mainyu.
*Except insofar as you didn't back up your statement, which I take to mean that you can't. Clue: Obeying Shinji, saving Shirou at Sakura's behest, saving Sakura from Shirou in a Bad End, fighting Saber Alter.
Just because Rider's idea of what is good for Sakura doesn't agree with yours (or, even Sakura's), that doesn't mean that Rider doesn't care about Sakura and try (in her own way) to make her life better. She just tends to put Sakura's survival above Sakura's happiness.
And, for the record, what I was suggesting here was definitely an example of that. There's no way Sakura would want Rider to hurt Rin or Shirou, but if she thought it would help Sakura, Rider would not hesitate.
well beamy that makes me think two thingsYou might want to avoid most of my HF stuff, then, since I always end up tweaking Sakura a little bit. Kinda hard to keep her true to character when I don't see much to work with.
1) that you're a good person for being honest
2) I should talk to you on sakura's utility in stories at some point, I think my view point is different enough that it might help you see something more in sakura.
actually you look like a newb guy. your post count was the indicator. Alt pointed out just before you posted this that I was mistaken. regardless you are abrasive in your manner of action and likely will continue to be so to me in the future. as a result i'm setting you on ignore.Wut? You don't have anything to say, so you resort to LOLNOOB and BL DUN DIS ALREDY. Sorry bro, but I've been a member of BL and the Fate fandom for, oh, four years. But that's OK - you can't even construct an argument properly, let alone follow it without changing the goalposts.
My point wasn't that Rider hates Sakura, or that she does nothing*. My point was, in regards to killing Sakura in that particular bad end, stopping it from happening when you don't have a solution can be seen as making Sakura's suffering last longer - and even making it worse, because the next day, suddenly Angra Mainyu.
*Except insofar as you didn't back up your statement, which I take to mean that you can't. Clue: Obeying Shinji, saving Shirou at Sakura's behest, saving Sakura from Shirou in a Bad End, fighting Saber Alter.
http://forums.darksidemoon.net
come join us, Darksidemoon is a new forum for discussion of all things tm
it is my firm belief that regarding the ban of mike1984 I have been given insufficient reason for the affair and it's conclusion, further than this I feel that the light manner it has been treated in is appalling. It is my sincere hope that he is not regarded in the same way as actually malicious posters who have appeared on beast's lair or otherwise as a joke to be snickered at when spoken of in the future. I will not forget my friend or view him in the manner those in charge here have presented him and his actions, nor will I accept the situation as it stands where people snicker at him as if he were a joke.
uh... when you go "Sorry you're new you don't understand," and someone calls you out on it, doing it again and then putting him on ignore does not really advance your argument.
Hmm, seems like a bit of miscommunication here. He didn't really say it in a courteous fashion. The way he had worded it, he made her seem like she didn't really care, when he only meant that the way she does things is counterproductive, which is a plot point we see when Sakura used the last command spell to save Shirou, she at last knew what would make her truly happy.
Sound about right?
"Fate/stay night: not really an eroge, and not really a cooking sim, but actually an RPG wherein everyone’s primary stat is “self-loathing” and the goal is to level it up beyond all the other characters."
Nah, it's fine. I'd rather ignore Lantz in return. If his best argment is "noob" followed by "meanie" I'll just have to cope. :P
Also, Mike, I agree with that summation - Rider's opinion on 'best interests' won't necessarily jive with Shirou's or Sakura's. It's one of the things I like about Nasu's characters - they're not simple or two-dimensional.
Huh. Never had to resort to ignoring someone before. I feel diminished in some ineffable way.
Last edited by Trevelyan; December 2nd, 2011 at 08:58 PM.
Well, there is a really good reason for Illya to not tell anyone. Closing the door implies that she dies, as it happens in HF True. I can see why she won't say a word.
Spoiler:
I don't really think so, it's not really implicitly said what would have killed her actually. That is left pretty vague.
She had also just repaired Shirou's soul and given him a container to hold it in at the time. It's just really not clear what it was that actually killed her.
"Fate/stay night: not really an eroge, and not really a cooking sim, but actually an RPG wherein everyone’s primary stat is “self-loathing” and the goal is to level it up beyond all the other characters."
I think it was the whole "Act as the Grail" thing, kind of like what happened to Justica. And as far as I know, to close the door she must act as the Grail.
Spoiler:
Even if that's true, I'm sure she could have at least told them what was going on, and helped find another way to save Sakura.
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