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Thread: On reducing vitriol

  1. #21
    Κύρια Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    I know they wanted to crack down on "chan language" for a while now, I guess getting people in the team to get work done made it a reality.
    Yeah, noises were being made about it well before we got on; the new blood just had the effect of spurring things into action. We're fuel for the dragon reactor, if you will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloble View Post
    I can't live with the use of words and phrases being punished, no matter how obnoxious or politically incorrect they might be. Don't ban the words, ban the one using them to be a dick.
    Using most of the words I'd ding a user for creates a general hostile atmosphere whether it's meant as a direct insult against a user or not (we're mostly talking slurs on account of race, disability and the like). You are still imparting a pejorative sense to the word - implying to people who had little choice in what they were born with or what happened to them that their life is inherently worse - even if you're not actually using it to insult the person you're addressing. Words have contexts and effects beyond just whatever particular conversation you're carrying on at the moment, especially on this public forum where lots of people end up reading your conversations.

    As it stands, the staff aren't going to be taking the hardest of the hardline stances and totally banning these words no matter the context. There is evaluation for the way the post was made. But, you know, do think about how you're using words when you post, and if calling someone a faggot is something you really really have to do.
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  2. #22
    Kopf is kaputt aber Outfit is nice I3uster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    Using most of the words I'd ding a user for creates a general hostile atmosphere whether it's meant as a direct insult against a user or not (we're mostly talking slurs on account of race, disability and the like). You are still imparting a pejorative sense to the word - implying to people who had little choice in what they were born with or what happened to them that their life is inherently worse - even if you're not actually using it to insult the person you're addressing. Words have contexts and effects beyond just whatever particular conversation you're carrying on at the moment, especially on this public forum where lots of people end up reading your conversations.

    As it stands, the staff aren't going to be taking the hardest of the hardline stances and totally banning these words no matter the context. There is evaluation for the way the post was made. But, you know, do think about how you're using words when you post, and if calling someone a faggot is something you really really have to do.
    So your interpretation runs contrary to DPs it seems.

    You should probably get that all in line before you actually enforce it because as of now it seems to be a bit jumbled.

    - - - Updated - - -

    because nobody here actually tries to argue that flaming is a good thing that should be allowed, at least i hope so
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  3. #23
    The only Saber Clone that matters Ace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    Using most of the words I'd ding a user for creates a general hostile atmosphere whether it's meant as a direct insult against a user or not (we're mostly talking slurs on account of race, disability and the like).
    How far does this extend? Are words like slut and whore and other gendered slurs included?

  4. #24
    you watch your potty mouth
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  5. #25
    el bolb Bloble's Avatar
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    I just want to make racist jokes because they're funnier than non-racist jokes.

    Okay I'm gonna stop posting now.
    Last edited by Bloble; April 8th, 2015 at 02:45 AM. Reason: Realized I actually like capitalizing things.

  6. #26
    Glorious Grammar Master Race Frantic Author's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    Using most of the words I'd ding a user for creates a general hostile atmosphere whether it's meant as a direct insult against a user or not (we're mostly talking slurs on account of race, disability and the like).
    Yeah, using no-no words is a huge problem. Shitposting is 100% aces, after all.

    It's like everyone saw the tiny oasis of sand in the middle of a sea of actual garbage, and declared the oasis to be the real problem, while they planted their feet in shit.
    in the end we will make thoughtcrime impossible, for there shall be no words to express it
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  7. #27
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Mellon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frantic Author View Post
    Yeah, using no-no words is a huge problem. Shitposting is 100% aces, after all.

    It's like everyone saw the tiny oasis of sand in the middle of a sea of actual garbage, and declared the oasis to be the real problem, while they planted their feet in shit.
    Its more like cleaning up a patch of shit in a sea of shit.

    Dealing with "chanspeak" is a completely separate issue from curbing shitposting. Trying to curb one does not mean that you are ignoring the other. Although I have the feeling that if the mods decided to introduce new sweeping regulations to deal with shitposting, they would not really be welcomed with open arms.

    Regulating a forum is not a zero-sum game.
    Last edited by Mellon; April 8th, 2015 at 02:49 AM.

  8. #28
    Don't @ me if your fanfic doesn't even have Shirou/Illya shipping k thnx ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    So DP tells us this rule is basically just the flaming rule again, but the enforcement seems to be trying to eliminate certain words from the forums vocabulary all together, no matter if leveled at oneself/the environment/a fictional character.

    what is it now, no flaming
    Flaming is what we're trying to curb here. We're looking at posts on a case-by-case basis. A bunch of mates referring to themselves as autistic dumbfucks is no trouble, but if interactions between ShonenHero42 and Devil_Boner always lead to disruptive discussions that end in intelligences insulted and one's mother being dishonored, then word choices in certain contexts act as buzzwords that we need to step in.
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  9. #29
    Κύρια Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    So your interpretation runs contrary to DPs it seems.

    You should probably get that all in line before you actually enforce it because as of now it seems to be a bit jumbled.
    That post was my personal set of thoughts on the matter, rather than the way it will necessarily be moderated. As it implies, I'd rather take this a bit further than it is, but that's not how this is being put into place. The announcement says that this is about the language being used in attacks, and that's what will be concentrated on.
    That said, just because you're not directly attacking a user doesn't mean you're in the clear. "Discomforting others" has been on the books since March 2011, and we will take into account reasonable reports from someone who feels indirectly attacked by use of slurs in a perjorative manner.

    In general, regardless of the rules, I continue to encourage everyone to think if it's 100% necessary that you tell I3uster he's a retard.
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  10. #30
    Kopf is kaputt aber Outfit is nice I3uster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsaRandomUsername View Post
    Flaming is what we're trying to curb here. We're looking at posts on a case-by-case basis. A bunch of mates referring to themselves as autistic dumbfucks is no trouble, but if interactions between ShonenHero42 and Devil_Boner always lead to disruptive discussions that end in intelligences insulted and one's mother being dishonored, then word choices in certain contexts act as buzzwords that we need to step in.
    I uh, I count any use of a word as insult towards another person as a flame, so this rule is literally not a new rule from my definition.

    Maybe mine is weird then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    That post was my personal set of thoughts on the matter, rather than the way it will necessarily be moderated. As it implies, I'd rather take this a bit further than it is, but that's not how this is being put into place. The announcement says that this is about the language being used in attacks, and that's what will be concentrated on.
    That said, just because you're not directly attacking a user doesn't mean you're in the clear. "Discomforting others" has been on the books since March 2011, and we will take into account reasonable reports from someone who feels indirectly attacked by use of slurs in a perjorative manner.

    In general, regardless of the rules, I continue to encourage everyone to think if it's 100% necessary that you tell I3uster he's a retard.
    You know that by "taking it further" than personal insults this basically means you set your own rule then.

    are you sure mods are supposed to do that
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post

    In general, regardless of the rules, I continue to encourage everyone to think if it's 100% necessary that you tell I3uster he's a retard.
    And I think what people are trying to say is that if you think it's 100% necessary to call people out on calling each other faggots and retards in a friendly environment. Because it's not.

  12. #32
    waiting Satehi's Avatar
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  13. #33
    Kopf is kaputt aber Outfit is nice I3uster's Avatar
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    nvm i misread your posts

    So basically this new rule is "dont do the thing you werent supposed to be doing since day 1"

    thank you mods
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  14. #34
    Don't @ me if your fanfic doesn't even have Shirou/Illya shipping k thnx ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    nvm i misread your posts

    So basically this new rule is "dont do the thing you werent supposed to be doing since day 1"

    thank you mods
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Rai Burnout View Post
    Complaint filed. I am not putting up with this shit. You were there when the others were warned so I see no excuse.
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  16. #36
    Κύρια Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    You know that by "taking it further" than personal insults this basically means you set your own rule then.

    are you sure mods are supposed to do that
    "I'd rather" take it further, personally. Not "I am" taking it further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christemo View Post
    And I think what people are trying to say is that if you think it's 100% necessary to call people out on calling each other faggots and retards in a friendly environment. Because it's not.
    Again, mods won't be doing that. Being a mod, much as I'd like to, I won't be doing that either up until the point when we specifically have a topical discussion about it (i.e. here).
    I will repeat that just because you think it's a friendly environment and the people you are immediately talking with think it's a friendly environment, it doesn't mean that everyone reading is merrily unaffected.
    Last edited by Seika; April 8th, 2015 at 02:59 AM.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ItsaRandomUsername View Post
    Flaming is what we're trying to curb here. We're looking at posts on a case-by-case basis. A bunch of mates referring to themselves as autistic dumbfucks is no trouble, but if interactions between ShonenHero42 and Devil_Boner always lead to disruptive discussions that end in intelligences insulted and one's mother being dishonored, then word choices in certain contexts act as buzzwords that we need to step in.
    If it's a case by case basis then this is a wholly unnecessary rule. Exercising one's judgment on what is flaming shouldn't hinge on what buzzwords are used. So if this isn't a general ban on certain terminology but rather a reaffirmation of the age-old rule "don't be a dick", then what exactly is the point of focusing on certain context-sensitive words in the first place?

    I mean really, do you need to see someone being called a retard to intervene or what.
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  18. #38
    N̠͔͓̰͒ͯͥ̉ͦ̂y̖͒á͓͔͙̮̹ͬ.͇̪ͤͨ̾̒.͎͙͇̟̅͒̑̇͋́.̾̽̓͗̄ Dark Pulse's Avatar
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    Guys, it's very simple. Don't be a dick to other people. Try not to casually throw around words that'll piss people off. We can tell when things are joking around and when things aren't a joke, because usually the stuff that's not a joke gets reported by somebody.

    If you can do that, great, then you don't need to worry about a thing.

    We're not the morality police, we're not going to ban swearing or demand everyone be perfectly politically correct, but some of it is getting ridiculous and we feel it needs to be curbed.
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  19. #39
    Kopf is kaputt aber Outfit is nice I3uster's Avatar
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    Yeah I think nobody is arguing against "no flaming" being an enforced rule.

    except cruor
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Pulse View Post
    We can tell when things are joking around and when things aren't a joke, because usually the stuff that's not a joke gets reported by somebody.
    And that's where it gets silly because people with easily hurt butts like Lyco and Rai go around and report every post with the word "autism" or anything like it because they feel a need to completely criminalize a word based on what I presume is personal self-righteousness.

    So yeah like please also do something about people overusing/misusing reports because the effect on two or three people should not have to be handheld and their sensitivities accommodated for in a group of a couple of hundred people, most of which probably don't actively interact with them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    long sentences
    Last edited by Christemo; April 8th, 2015 at 03:09 AM.

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