Who reunites with Saber in the last episode, Shirou or Archer?

[Rafflesiac]

Well, first he dated Ayako for a while, and then broke up with her because Russia needed saving, then he shacked up with Luvia for a bit, but she got horribly burned and Azaka died, and then...

[Gl❀w]

Well, first he dated Ayako for a while, and then broke up with her because Russia needed saving, then he shacked up with Luvia for a bit, but she got horribly burned and Azaka died, and then...

thank u raff this is important knowledge i will save it for all future considerations of archer's cynicism

[Rafflesiac]

Any time!

[Yoyomaster]

i'm not arguing that they're similar. they definitely are. i'm just saying that saber could come to that final takeaway without shirou being any less shirou-goggled about her.

but i make no claims as to knowing what may or may not have taken place in archer's life, obviously.

Eh, I just think it's hard to define what is Shirou-goggled and what isn't since we are reading with his POV

It's the same thing for the other heroines

[Owlz]

Well, it may just be a personal reading, but a lot of the issues I find with Fate Shirou is that he tends to see Saber...exactly as he wants to see Saber.

Wasn't it a theme that Fate Shirou accepted the faults of his partner unlike like other portrays like HF Shirou? Isn't it the opossite of what you say?

She sacrificed many people in the name of the king and killed many enemies.
I don't intend to ignore that or pretend it didn't happen

While in HF he says that he will forgive Sakura and forget what she has done and burden himself with it?

It seems that he is accepting the way his partner actually is in Fate more that other portray.

[Gl❀w]

Wasn't it a theme that Fate Shirou accepted the faults of his part unlike like other portrays like HF Shirou? Isn't it the opossite of what you say?

well... no? because i'm not saying he completely denied the facts of her life. just that i don't feel that he totally understood her, as a person, beyond what he absolutely had to accept as fact. there are some things about her, such as his bit about how she didn't really like swordsmanship, that i think are... uh... creative interpretation on his part.

[You]

but i make no claims as to knowing what may or may not have taken place in archer's life, obviously.

he destroyed a village and white people were laughing when he did it because lolwhitepeople amirite anime.

[Gl❀w]

he destroyed a village and white people were laughing when he did it because lolwhitepeople amirite anime.

it comes from You, it must be true

[Owlz]

Just that i don't feel that he totally understood her, as a person, beyond what he absolutely had to accept as fact. there are some things about her, such as his bit about how she didn't really like swordsmanship, that i think are... uh... creative interpretation on his part.

That was a remark about how she doesn't like to fight because of the fear of the destruction that it will cause... which is true for her. Shirou can see many things that Saber wanted to hide and that nobody understood of her, mostly at the end of Fate where he realises that he admires that Saber will to fight.

But ok, maybe he doesn't understand some parts of her, but what person can completely understand other one? It's part of the apeal of being interested on someone, right?

[CG-3m1y4]

On the other hand, Shirou and Lily would be cute

Also, my headcanon is that he made a good romance with Olgamarie, only later to be betrayed horribly by her ala Kikyo and Inuyasha.

[eddyak]

That's wrong tho

BUT UR A GURRRL SEIBAH

Shirou just naively tried to come up with excuses for her, unable to think of her as a person with a story that has concluded rather than a living breathing being with him right there, which is what their fight is about after their date.

Basically, this. Puppy love Shirou didn't see what she was actually about- he saw a girl, had a crush, tried to convince her she was better off with him than what she truly wanted to do, and sort of succeeded, which is terrifying, the guy's basically brainwashed somebody who fought invaders off her land for thirty years in the space of about two weeks.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Well, he didn't convince her to stay with him, but he did seem to convince her that her desire for the grail in the first place is wrong.

Basically she started her book determined to enjoy it, came out of it hating it and ready to burn it, Shirou argued with her on the forum 5th Holy Grail War, and while he didn't convince her that she needed to start the sequel, he was able to convince her that the story wasn't actually that bad and if she remembered her determination from the start she can look at it and see it had its good points.

It was a miracle, he actually changed someone's mind, we need to replicate this process and maybe we can shoot Dartz with it a few times.

[Yoyomaster]

BUT UR A GURRRL SEIBAH

Nice meme tbh

It's as if they don't fight as partners and trust each other by the end of the route, right?

Basically, this. Puppy love Shirou didn't see what she was actually about- he saw a girl, had a crush, tried to convince her she was better off with him than what she truly wanted to do, and sort of succeeded, which is terrifying, the guy's basically brainwashed somebody who fought invaders off her land for thirty years in the space of about two weeks.

He convinced her to give up on her self destructive wish and accepted the fact that she had her duty to her kingdom and couldn't stay with him

Pretty mature if you ask me

[Snow]

that's the wrong kind of headcanon to have about issei IMO

Maybe Issei was the lover. Maybe Shinji was...

[aldeayeah]

Well, it may just be a personal reading, but a lot of the issues I find with Fate Shirou is that he tends to see Saber...exactly as he wants to see Saber. I think that they have a very core understanding of what drives each other as people, because they obviously are very similar in a lot of ways. However, oftentimes I got the impression that Shirou was sort of super-imposing what he wanted to see onto who Saber actually is. It doesn't generally affect his ability to make her see that she's approaching her life incorrectly, but I don't think it would qualify as fully understanding her, either.

He certainly was doing that.

He also stopped doing that in the end, symbolized by his last command, and that's why IMO that scene is pretty good.