Nasuverse eschatology discussion [SPOILERS]

[Broke]

There's no way Kiritsugu would have been capable of teaching Shirou magic that was on the level of Magic. Unless that was changed in his backstory.

Also, Siscon!Shirou can't use Magecraft that approaches Magic.

He can't really project acceptable Divine Constructs. When he tries, it ends up as a shitty copy that's hollow and less durable than its true counterpart.

The same happens with Kuro. Her Excalibur has a beam blast ability, but it gets broken easily by the original.

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Think Excalibur Image.

[GhostDIGIT]

He can use a RM his actual magic is the RM that's his magic, that's almost on the level of Magic.

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That's what I meant by magic that is almost on the level of Magic which I am now realizing that was not in my original post so you're correct.

[Riku Noctis]

He can use a RM his actual magic is the RM that's his magic, that's almost on the level of Magic.

It's funny that Kinoko still doesn't give a way to measure that damn statement about "close to true magic"...

Being close doesn't necessarily means that it's superior to everything else except True Magic. I mean, what is superior? Medea's "close to True Magic spell from the AoG", Lorelei's "close to True Magic bitchslaps" or maybe some other descriptions about "something-something close to True Magic"?


Guess I'll ask that, along with the old "can (any) shiki kill the ginger idiot?" and what the hell is that purge-whatever that I read a couple of days ago.

[GundamFSN]

"can (any) shiki kill the ginger idiot?" and what the hell is that purge-whatever that I read a couple of days ago.

Tohno Shiki vs. Shirou

"If powers are at max and we ignore the point of self-destruction caused from overflow then Shiki will win. No matter how much Shirou makes swords, Shiki will keep 'killing' them. It's a different story if it's possible to use a 'Mana Burst' like Excalibur."

I consider Ryougi being considerably stronger than Shiki, but that's my headcannon.

I'm not so sure about Roa.

[mewarmo990]

It's funny that Kinoko still doesn't give a way to measure that damn statement about "close to true magic"...

Being close doesn't necessarily means that it's superior to everything else except True Magic. I mean, what is superior? Medea's "close to True Magic spell from the AoG", Lorelei's "close to True Magic bitchslaps" or maybe some other descriptions about "something-something close to True Magic"?

"magic" isn't necessarily 'inferior' to "Magic." The difference is just that "magic" is what can be duplicated with modern means, while "Magic" are mysteries that can't. In the modern age there are only five "Magics" left, partially because technology and "magic" have advanced to the point that some feats once considered miraculous are no longer so, and partially because some of the mystery/knowledge in the world has been lost.

I think Reality Marbles (literally "innate bounded field" or "innate barrier") when done by magi are considered really high level magic because they're a feat that originally only demons could do, because demons have some trait of projecting their inner world onto the real world, and that's not something you can do with a typical magical field.

But they're not "Magic" because any magus with enough talent, accumulated knowledge, and dedication can achieve it.

[Broke]

Why are you guys called it "magic" and "Magic"?

Shouldn't it be Magecraft and (True) Magic?

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Because mew hates the term magecraft.

[Nihilm]

Hmm, could use thaumaturgy in that case, I've always liked thaumaturgy

[Broke]

Hmm, could use thaumaturgy in that case, I've always liked thaumaturgy

I like thaumaturgy.

Let's use magecraft though. I heard that mew hates it.

[Bobin]

I use magecraft because it's easier to spell.

[Broke]

I use magecraft because I like being able to spell a word without consulting a dictionary.

[GundamFSN]

Because mew hates the term magecraft.

I wonder why...

[Arashi_Leonhart]

http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread...=1#post1896374

[peanuts]

The sixth what, is the question.

The Sixth Law? The Sixth Magic? The Sixth Element?

kudos to whoever puts together a "number 6 in the Nasuverse" post

Also as You pointed out, it seems like Grand Order will tie in to this too.

The youngest and only witch to be given a name or title in the Notes material we received was "Judgment."
I propose the Sixth is just the Nasu-name for the Apocalypse.


And maybe there's a different sort of connection with Magic.
There's this throwaway line about the user of the First saying there would be 5 problems or tasks left to be fulfilled in the end which somehow connects to there being 5 wizards.
And somehow the fact that the Fourth and the Fifth were discovered was actually a bad thing. Not for what the content of the Fifth was, but the fact that it was just filled.
Maybe discovering the Fifth was like setting off a flag event for having to move directly to solving the problem of the Sixth.

[aldeayeah]

The user of the First saying there would be 5 problems or tasks left to be fulfilled in the end which somehow connects to there being 5 wizards.

Or maybe 6 wizards, himself and five more.

If the Sixth 第六法 is indeed the Sixth Magic 第六魔法, maybe Zepia was trying to become the Sixth Wizard himself, in order to somehow mitigate the inevitable world-fucking nature of the Sixth.

...Or maybe the Sixth is bad precisely because it's the last one. There's nothing left to do after that. Existencial death, loss of will to live, Tsuki no Sango style.

I was looking for the Hermes references in MBAA (couldn't find anything definite) and found this:

Arc vs DoO prefight speech:
Ｂｉｒｄ　ｏｆ　ｔｈｅ　Ｕｎｄｅｒｗｏｒｌｄ．　Ｇｒａｃｅｆｕｌ　Ｏｓｉｒｉｓ．　Ｙｏｕｒ　ｉｄｅａ 　ｉｓ　ａ
ｔｈｏｕｓａｎｄ　ｙｅａｒｓ　ｔｏｏ　ｌａｔｅ．　Ｔｈａｔ　ｔｒｉｐｅ　ｏｆ　ｙｏｕｒｓ　ｉｓ　ｊｕ ｓｔ　ａ
ｒｅｌｉｃ　ｏｆ　ｔｈｅ　ｐａｓｔ．

WArc Ending speech:
Ｃｕｒｉｎｇ　ｄｅａｔｈ　ｂｙ　ｒｅｓｅｔｔｉｎｇ　ｅｖｅｒｙｔｈｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｚｅｒｏ？　Ｓｏｒｒ ｙ，
ｂｕｔ　ｔｈｅｙ　ｔｒｉｅｄ　ｔｈａｔ　ａ　ｌｏｎｇ　ｔｉｍｅ　ａｇｏ．　Ｇｉｖｅ　ｉｔ　ａ　ｒｅｓ ｔ
ａｌｒｅａｄｙ，　ｌａｄｙ．

So who tried DoO's plan before?

[GundamFSN]

What about that flashback thing with Nessie when Aoko uses her ultimate attack?

[peanuts]

Or maybe 6 wizards, himself and five more.

If the Sixth 第六法 is indeed the Sixth Magic 第六魔法, maybe Zepia was trying to become the Sixth Wizard himself, in order to somehow mitigate the inevitable world-fucking nature of the Sixth
...Or maybe the Sixth is bad precisely because it's the last one. There's nothing left to do after that. Existencial death, loss of will to live, Tsuki no Sango style.

That would mean Zepia would be trying to become the Sixth Wizard hundreds of years before a Fifth one was even established. I wonder how would that work.
I was looking for the Hermes references in MBAA (couldn't find anything definite) and found this:

Arc vs DoO prefight speech:
Ｂｉｒｄ　ｏｆ　ｔｈｅ　Ｕｎｄｅｒｗｏｒｌｄ．　Ｇｒａｃｅｆｕｌ　Ｏｓｉｒｉｓ．　Ｙｏｕｒ　ｉｄｅａ 　ｉｓ　ａ
ｔｈｏｕｓａｎｄ　ｙｅａｒｓ　ｔｏｏ　ｌａｔｅ．　Ｔｈａｔ　ｔｒｉｐｅ　ｏｆ　ｙｏｕｒｓ　ｉｓ　ｊｕ ｓｔ　ａ
ｒｅｌｉｃ　ｏｆ　ｔｈｅ　ｐａｓｔ．

WArc Ending speech:
Ｃｕｒｉｎｇ　ｄｅａｔｈ　ｂｙ　ｒｅｓｅｔｔｉｎｇ　ｅｖｅｒｙｔｈｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｚｅｒｏ？　Ｓｏｒｒ ｙ，
ｂｕｔ　ｔｈｅｙ　ｔｒｉｅｄ　ｔｈａｔ　ａ　ｌｏｎｇ　ｔｉｍｅ　ａｇｏ．　Ｇｉｖｅ　ｉｔ　ａ　ｒｅｓ ｔ
ａｌｒｅａｄｙ，　ｌａｄｙ．

So who tried DoO's plan before?

I was going to say the Third. Back in GoA, you had Merlin theorizing that the next age after the Age of Man would be the Age of the Mind, which sound basically like it was either the Third or it was Extra or something.
Then I looked around.
その妄念は、古い“一”の考えだ
The quotation marks around the 一 make me think it's talking about something related to the First.
Or I don't know. There could be some other significance behind it.

Or apparently food thought it was supposed to be the Ultimate One.

[Cruor]

Uuhh, the Zepia wanting to become the Sixth could be kind mitigated by the fact that he is an Alchemist and that ATLAS was thinking about the Sixth fiirst and foremost not caring about the Fourth or Fifth.


But yeah, becoming a Sixth Magician is a lot more reasonable than challenging some weird super order.

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Also @ the argument above about magecraft/blah.

Again I like the term Thaumaturgy because the users are known as Magi/Magus.

Meanhile the actual Magic users would be the Magicians.

[Mcjon01]

Use etymologically appropriate terminology vis a vis the ethnic background and culture of every single individual character or be forever pleb tier.

[mewarmo990]

I wonder why...

IMO it sounds stupid. It also isn't a real word, and too many terms have 魔術 as part of the compound.

In the end no big deal, just my personal nitpick.