Nasuverse eschatology discussion [SPOILERS]

[Deathhappens]

Wow I didn't even know we had an eschatology thread

can't wait until we add Servant Nostradamus' prophecies in here.

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Unfunny jokes aside, what prompted this? None of this is new info, as far as I can tell.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Also, when did this thread suddenly come back into view and how long had it been sitting dormant?

[Deathhappens]

You can see the date every post was made on the top-left corner.

[Iceblade44]

For 3 years

[aldeayeah]

Leftovers, as the distinguished scholar you are, could you give this rusty old man a brief rundown of those newer (FGO-related, surely) concepts you speak of?

also of whatever was going down in Last Encore and Extella

[Leftovers]

That was more of a cue for people who still pay attention to FGO as I still think of late 2016 Extella/FGO information as new. Ideas such as humanity as Prime Ones (the top dogs of the planet on a metaphysical level), Human Order (to put it simply, humanity's conceptual powerlevel) being weaker in the world of Tsukihime than in that of Fate, and perhaps even Timeline Pruning (the eradication of timelines that are cosmological dead ends and unviable energy sinkholes - already a likely candidate for the Sixth Law that Atlas foresaw, relevant to the future of Tsuki no Sango where staving off stagnation is vital for the world's survival, and also could be related to Aoko and her less than judicious actions in the end of Mahoyo) could all be made pertinent to the Dark Six with a bit of wank.

You can get a rundown of some major Extella info here. tl;dr everyone is ancient aliens. Last Encore is a what-if scenario where Hakuno failed to defeat Saver. The only semi-relevant piece of information that I can think of is Twice stating that human history began with the onset of the second AoG in 12,000 BC.

[Leftovers]

I just realised, this sounds like ORT's passive alien order leaking. :o

[Mcjon01]

I bet it doesn’t

[Leftovers]

as long as you take it literally

[warellis]

That was more of a cue for people who still pay attention to FGO as I still think of late 2016 Extella/FGO information as new. Ideas such as humanity as Prime Ones (the top dogs of the planet on a metaphysical level), Human Order (to put it simply, humanity's conceptual powerlevel) being weaker in the world of Tsukihime than in that of Fate, and perhaps even Timeline Pruning (the eradication of timelines that are cosmological dead ends and unviable energy sinkholes - already a likely candidate for the Sixth Law that Atlas foresaw, relevant to the future of Tsuki no Sango where staving off stagnation is vital for the world's survival, and also could be related to Aoko and her less than judicious actions in the end of Mahoyo) could all be made pertinent to the Dark Six with a bit of wank.

You can get a rundown of some major Extella info here. tl;dr everyone is ancient aliens. Last Encore is a what-if scenario where Hakuno failed to defeat Saver. The only semi-relevant piece of information that I can think of is Twice stating that human history began with the onset of the second AoG in 14,000 BC.

Weren't some of the concepts, like humans being the Prime Ones, alreary mentioned earlier with how Primate Murder was this super killer of humanity and all?

[Leftovers]

Most nu-TM lore is backwards compatible, that's kind of the point of dropping vague-to-cryptic information and then picking up the dangling lore threads 10 years later and proclaiming that it was Planned All Along.

[Deathhappens]

It's backwards compatible in the same way that Empire Srrikes Back is technically backwards compatible with A New Hope, meaning "from a certain point of view".

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

It's backwards compatible in the same way that Empire Srrikes Back is technically backwards compatible with A New Hope, meaning "from a certain point of view".

And that's the beauty of it.

[You]

Could Plant Velber who is probably be the alien god possibly be the primordial demon mentioned oh so long ago?

https://youtu.be/0MhMLi2wJCw?t=875
We got this from Gil saying that malicious information is pretty much the weapon of the prototype of the goddess of vengeance who is a Velber or something close.
The third Velber holding a spear thing is a dude, so I think that this refers to the Plant Velber/Eye of Sauron



My guess is that this plant Velber is the origin of malicious information and therefore the primordial demon

A requirement for the appearance of the Tatari. Shared common knowledge circulating throughout a closed community.
Develops by making use of things like anonymous accusations, improbable testimonies, and popular trends. It will take on various forms depending on the circumstances, but at its core is “nothing.” It is for this very reason that the Tatari itself is said to have no true identity.
The “Bad News” used by the Night of Wallachia and the “Terror News” used by Vampire Sion were both forms of this, materialized with magical energy. The creation and control of malignant copies is a particularly advanced application.

Malignant Information
A curse in reality as well the fabricated quantum world of the SERAPH. This is maligant information --- knowledge born from negative information.
Malignant agitator, lies that pile up purely for the sake of one's advantage. A demagogy that is hollow at its core and spread endlessly. Information that is only a negative that is able to pollute the truth. A cancer that is able to make the entire community negative.
In the material world it is a transient thing that can be swept away. But for the SERAPH which is build on information, malignant information is treated as filth which erodes the area.
Malignant information is continuously dumped in the far side of the moon since human kind started to built civilizations that used language. At the beginning it was nothing more than "useless data" but then millions and billions of it started to accumulate until it comes mud that pollutes reality.
The correct human history is recorded in the near side.
The far side records the abandoned, abominable criminal history.
These are considered equal in value, or perhaps as there is more malignant information, it posses a higher spiritron energy value.
There once was an AI who consumed this vast amount of energy and become the ruler of the moon cell. But, when she reached the final stage abandoned her goal and sank back into the Far Side of the Moon.

Cursed Cupid Cleanser.
In the past, BB used a Noble Phantasm called Cursed Cutting Crater (Spiritual Particles Imaginary Pitfall), but now she brought out a new technique with a triumphant look while saying:
“I got tired of that after using it so many times. The theme this time is ‘cupid’ and ‘curelize’! Oh, but the cursed part does not disappear just because I become your ally. BB-chan’s curse is eternal!”

Drawing the Mooncell’s power, she changes into the shape of an invincible nurse. Immediately after, she draws malignant information from her territory - the imaginary space - and overwrites the surrounding channel (common awareness) into something chaotic.
Unfolding the Reality Marble, “BB Channel - Branch-off Edition”, and throwing the opponent into a melting pot of disorder... or so she says, but this is simply an syringe attack after BB has changed into nurse clothes.

So we see here that Malignant Information which may be the weapon/product of this Velber is based on lies.
Satan being called "the father of lies" and being a tempter.
Satan also being seen as a Serpent while, pardon my Zetsuen no Tempest, trees and serpents are inevitably anthropologically linked.
Furthermore there's the Tree of Knowledge in Eden that gave people the Original Sin. And this Tree, the origin of the Phantasy Trees and that I believe brings lies.

But what's really interesting is that the gathering of Malignant Information is able to disrupt the "common sense" of a region. And what does that sound like?

Intrinsic Field.
Originally referred to the alien common sense possessed by the beings called devils, but now also includes the unique boundary fields possessed by many people.
A subset of marble phantasm, it erodes reality and gives form to the user's imagined world. It is the magecraft closest to magic, and a forbidden art within the Association.

And we know that BB does use Malignant Information to construct her reality marble.

Furthermore it's not a stretch to consider Lucifer, a "fallen angel" an alien that fell from the sky.

One final piece of evidence that Malignant Information is known to record the abandoned history of humanity.
The abandoned history such as perhaps the history of the Lost Belts?
And now we have the introduction of Sion who happens to be an expert in spiritron hacking and malignant information.

Either way there are some gaps like, why would this being want to bring about the AOG again?
But I think you can make a rather good case tying these things together.

[Mcjon01]

Unrelated but I wish I had translated Bad News as Fake News, it would make the whole thing a lot more topical

[warellis]

Unrelated but I wish I had translated Bad News as Fake News, it would make the whole thing a lot more topical

Why? Is it genuinely fake news in-universe?

[Leftovers]

More of a WMG; also I don't see it

- malignant information is standardly generated from humanity, though an independent generator of fake news isn't impossible i guess

- generating their own alien 'field' that disrupts and eats at local order is also an alien trait as seen with ort that velber might have

- the satan connection just comes out of and also goes nowhere (is it that original sin=demon of origin?) also the demon connection only exists because of a tenuous equivalence

- where was mr. tree in fsn/knk/tsuki

- that's not a tree that's a cyclops star with dangling tentacles

i'd follow the true demons that exist independent of humanity before it even gave them names are the antithesis of god line of thinking since gods are aliens and they've already been likened to extradimensional abominations to support a demons-aliens connection but then again, why

[Mcjon01]

Why? Is it genuinely fake news in-universe?

I mean all malignant information is fake news but mostly I just like memes

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

More of a WMG; also I don't see it

- malignant information is standardly generated from humanity, though an independent generator of fake news isn't impossible i guess

- generating their own alien 'field' that disrupts and eats at local order is also an alien trait as seen with ort that velber might have

- the satan connection just comes out of and also goes nowhere (is it that original sin=demon of origin?) also the demon connection only exists because of a tenuous equivalence

- where was mr. tree in fsn/knk/tsuki

- that's not a tree that's a cyclops star with dangling tentacles

i'd follow the true demons that exist independent of humanity before it even gave them names are the antithesis of god line of thinking since gods are aliens and they've already been likened to extradimensional abominations to support a demons-aliens connection but then again, why

You lost me about halfway through.

[You]

- the satan connection just comes out of and also goes nowhere (is it that original sin=demon of origin?) also the demon connection only exists because of a tenuous equivalence

- where was mr. tree in fsn/knk/tsuki

the satan connection just multiple ways they could go with it to form that equivalence of plant velber = satan mentioned in Shimousa/alien god
Considering plant velber looks like a flower and a star

Ｑ：奈須きのこ作品全部を通して（空の境界、月姫、Fate、DDD）最強キャラトップ3を決めるとしたら 誰になりますか？（石川県／聖なるパンダ）

Ａ：マジカルアンバー（ルビーちゃん）。ネコアルク。虎。―――ではなく。
真面目な話なら1.アルクェイド、2.“両儀式”、3.原初の悪魔でしょうか。（サーヴァント 除く）

lol
well that's an issue
From this I guess the Primordial Demon probably is just the top tier thing in DDD.