Ancient Literature Discussion (History, Myth, Philosophy &c.)

[LegalLoliLover]

I obviously know the end results of the 3 Kingdoms Wars and the American Revolution, but I have a few questions about the Persian invasion of Greece and the Turkish invasion of Romania. From what I understand, despite losing the battle, Leonidas inspired the rest of Greece to drive the Persians out, but they had no real ambitions of taking the fight to Persia. On the other hand, after defeating the initial Turkish waves, Vlad wanted to push forward but was assassinated before he got the chance. Please confirm or refute my words.

[Kareshy]

I'd heavily contest the idea that it was Leonidas inspiring the rest of Greece in the way you're describing. The defense of the pass was an important stalling measure and I don't disagree that it would have been inspirational, but the Greeks were largely already committed to an allied front against the Persians. If anything, Leonidas would only really cause a flip on the perspective of Sparta itself. The reason that he famously only had his 300 guards rather than an full army was because Sparta was particularly reluctant to commit to the defense of Greece as a whole.

Themistocles was far more instrumental in the organization of Greece's resistance to Persia, both before, during and after the Battle of Thermopylae. He committed the Athenians to strengthening their navy in the run-up to the war (Essentially by lying to them), which became the strongest component of the Allied Greek fleet (Which, essentially he ended up in command of by bribery and more lying) that engaged in some of the most important battles (Some of which he won by yet more lying). The underhanded politics he engaged in to safeguard the Athenians above all else is really interesting. Should read about it.

It's also worth saying that it's not as if the Greeks wouldn't have invaded Persia if they had a chance. The whole war actually got started because of the Athenians supporting an insurrection in Ionia, but a lot of the strategic and tactical advantages that let them drive the Persians to retreat would've evaporated if they'd pursued any further, and Persia was still one of the most powerful empires on Earth at that point.

[Five_X]

There are two things people tend to forget about the Persian Wars: first, that there were very many Greek cities under Persian control at the time and for more than a century after; second, that many city-states, come the invasion, aligned themselves with the Persians. While it has an immense place in Western historiography and the idea of cultural conflict of civilized, masculine West against backwards, feminine East, to the Persians while it was ideologically important (particularly in the sense of its relation to the Zoroastrian state religion of Persia), in terms of resources it was more or less a border war. While Persia was, especially to the Greeks, this unfathomably wealthy tyrannical state, the reality of Achaemenid Persia was more of an empire focused first and foremost on its internal cohesion: Persian rule, especially out into the territories, was distant and more or less benign, with a great deal of autonomy in the hands of local rulers. Expanding its borders was a matter of pragmatism as well, rather than outright interest in conquest. So, if a military expedition proved to be too expensive, it was abandoned because the potential gain was outweighed by the necessary cost to achieve it. As an example, the attempted Persian conquest of Carthage came to nothing simply when the Phoenicians (the primary providers of sailors and ships to their Persian overlords) outright refused to take part.

I suppose it's somewhat related to note that when it comes to Alexander's conquests, the idea of a crumbling, decadent Persian empire falling to an ambitious foreign conqueror is an inaccurate one. The empire was in need of reform particularly with regards to its weirdly bloated economy, but otherwise wasn't in any unprecedented state of crisis.

[Crimson Flight]

How good is H.W.F. Saggs' stuff in the Assyriology field? Borrowed his The Might That Was Assyria from my uni library.

[LegalLoliLover]

Washington crossing the Delaware is an expression indicating a point of no return, correct? The Chinese have a similar saying that you shouldn't have second thoughts about assassinating the Emperor, if you've already broken into the palace.

[GundamFSN]

That reminds me of Caesar's crossing the Rubicon.

[Mattias]

Crossing the Rubicon also has the same connotations.

[LegalLoliLover]

https://www.christianity.com/church/...-11630098.html Shirou's Christian name is Jeronimo. Really?

[Five_X]

It's Portuguese, coincidentally the language the Japanese who converted to Christianity would be most familiar with.

[LegalLoliLover]

But it's still pronounced the same as Geronimo (the Apache tribesman also known as Goyaale), correct?

[Snow]

After St Jerome, so Portuguese Jerónimo, pronounced not quite like the English Geronimo.

[SpoonyViking]

After St Jerome, so Portuguese Jerónimo, pronounced not quite like the English Geronimo.

It can - and most often is, at least in Brazil - be rendered as JerÔnimo, too.

[LegalLoliLover]

If you have a lower rank in one company and are promised a much higher rank in another company, isn't it just good business sense to take it? (Yes, this has to do with ancient literature, specifically in regards to a famous or perhaps infamous character in it.)

[LegalLoliLover]

What were the Native American stakes and sides in the American Revolution? ... Or did I just ask an entire history lesson's worth of a question?

[Mattias]

So, with all the Irish suddenly in GO, I'm looking for a nice read on Irish myth. Anyone have suggestions?

[SpoonyViking]

These are old translations, but I believe - someone who's up-to-date with Celtic scholarship may correct me - they're still good:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/34081/34081-pdf.pdf
http://www.yorku.ca/inpar/tain_faraday.pdf

[Mattias]

Those are just what I'm looking for, but do they come in dead tree versions?

[SpoonyViking]

If you want actual books, I'd recommend looking for newer translations:
https://www.amazon.com/Early-Irish-M...XCY72MQ1KPZB7D
https://www.amazon.com/Tain-Translat.../dp/0192803735

[Mattias]

https://www.amazon.com/Early-Irish-M...XCY72MQ1KPZB7D

Oh, that one looks promising. Thanks.

[LegalLoliLover]

Is this line on post 107 about the Fascia true? https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/2288...87?page=10#109 If so, I can only wish eternal glory to the great Roman Empire.