View Poll Results: What's your Favorite System?

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  • 1e

    2 4.88%
  • 2e

    1 2.44%
  • 3.5e

    8 19.51%
  • d20 (custom rules, etc)

    6 14.63%
  • PF

    11 26.83%
  • 4e

    4 9.76%
  • 5e

    9 21.95%
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Thread: Tabletop Games Thread

  1. #2381
    Helpful & reliable guy Saiga's Avatar
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    Y-yes you can... from a small list of pre-determined results.

  2. #2382
    Κύρια Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Scholar's pack: 40gp
    Price of items on the equipment list: 38gp 2cp (25gp book, 2gp backpack, 10gp ink, 1gp parchment, 2cp pen)
    Items not on the equipment list: small knife, little bag of sand.
    Conclusion: in D&D, you have to pay nearly two gold pieces (equivalent to ten gallons of ale) for a small knife and a little bag of sand.
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  3. #2383
    I CHOOSE GOOD AVATARS mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    I always thought of it as paying extra to get everything as a package.

    Then again the knife isn't going to be spit out by a factor or anything.
    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  4. #2384
    You're stupidity is terminal Five_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    Then again the knife isn't going to be spit out by a factor or anything.
    Pre-modern settings, bah...
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  5. #2385
    Helpful & reliable guy Saiga's Avatar
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    Dealing with pre-modern standards is hard. We've had a lot of modern expectations in our game, especially dealing with players wanting to walk into a shop and buy magic items off a rack which 5E is not set up (and creates both logical and mechanical issues). I had to in-universe axe a shop another DM created when I took over because they made a magic superstore that would constantly fill its shelves with magic items which was potentially a huge problem.

  6. #2386
    I CHOOSE GOOD AVATARS mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Yeah, I realized that one time when my friends decided to go into a shop and just buy like 50 longswords like they were picking stuff off an JRPG shopping menu. After that I decided every shop would have a specific number of items and refresh their supplies over a long period of time.
    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  7. #2387
    smug Arashi_Leonhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    Yeah, I realized that one time when my friends decided to go into a shop and just buy like 50 longswords
    Was their name Swallow?
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  8. #2388
    Not Your Protagonist Bird of Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    Scholar's pack: 40gp
    Price of items on the equipment list: 38gp 2cp (25gp book, 2gp backpack, 10gp ink, 1gp parchment, 2cp pen)
    Items not on the equipment list: small knife, little bag of sand.
    Conclusion: in D&D, you have to pay nearly two gold pieces (equivalent to ten gallons of ale) for a small knife and a little bag of sand.
    Ranger after wizard went shopping : 10 Gallons for 2 GP? I had to pay half as much outside for just a cup of coffee!
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  9. #2389
    Κύρια Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    I always thought of it as paying extra to get everything as a package.

    Then again the knife isn't going to be spit out by a factor or anything.
    The packages are specifically meant to be cheaper than their component parts, because they're being lumped together for people doing quick character creation who don't want to bother with fiddling things in and out that they don't want/need. (E.g. if I'm running a character with good Survival, I tend to pick up the pieces of the Explorer's pack minus half of the rations, because the explorer's pack is worth exactly as much as its components).

    Hm, let me run the numbers.

    Scholar's pack (40gp)Book - 25gp
    Backpack - 2gp
    Ink 10gp
    Parchment 1gp
    Pen 0.02gp
    Total 38gp 2cp
    - 1gp, 9sp, 8cp more expensive than its contents (deduct a reasonable price for the unlisted knife and sand if you feel like it; personally, I might make it a few silver).

    Explorer's pack (10gp)backpack 2gp
    bedroll 1gp
    messkit 0.2gp
    tinderbox 0.5gp
    10 torches 0.1gp
    10 rations 5gp
    Waterskin 0.2gp
    rope 1gp
    Total 10gp
    - exactly the same. (No unlisted items).

    Burglar's pack (16gp)Backpack 2gp
    1000 ball bearings 1gp
    10ft string
    bell 1gp
    5 candles 0.05gp
    crowbar 2gp
    hammer 1gp
    10 pitons 0.5gp
    hooded lantern 5gp
    2 flasks of oil 0.2gp
    5 days rations 2.5gp
    tinderbox 0.5gp
    waterskin 0.2gp
    rope 1gp
    Total 16gp 9sp 5cp
    - 9sp 5cp cheaper (plus a reasonable price for an unlisted 10ft of string; call it 5cp and the pack can be a round 1gp cheaper)

    Diplomat's pack (39gp)Chest 5gp
    2 map/scroll cases 1gp
    fine clothes 15gp
    ink 10gp
    pen 0.02gp
    lamp 0.5gp
    2 oil flasks 0.2gp
    5 sheets paper 1gp
    perfume 5gp
    sealing wax 0.5gp
    soap 0.02gp
    Total 38gp 2sp 4cp
    7sp 6cp more expensive. (No unlisted items).

    Dungeoneer's pack (12gp)Backpack 2gp
    Crowbar 2gp
    Hammer 1gp
    10 pitons 0.5gp
    10 torches 0.1gp
    tinderbox 0.5gp
    10 rations 5gp
    Waterskin 0.2gp
    Rope 1gp
    Total 12gp 3sp
    - 3sp cheaper. (No unlisted items).

    Entertainer's pack (40gp)Backpack 2gp
    Bedroll 1gp
    2 costumes 10gp
    5 candles 0.05gp
    5 days rations 2.5gp
    Waterskin 0.2gp
    Disguise kit 25gp
    Total 40gp 7sp 5cp
    - 7sp 5cp cheaper. (No unlisted items).

    Priest's pack (19gp)Backpack 2gp
    Blanket 0.5gp
    10 candles 0.1gp
    Tinderbox 0.5gp
    2 days rations 1gp
    waterskin 0.2gp
    Alms box
    2 blocks incense
    censer
    vestments
    Total 4gp 3sp
    14gp 7sp more expensive but the mass of unlisted items makes this plainly useless as a calculation. Use only as a very tentative guide to how you might price the rest of the pack.
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  10. #2390
    Helpful & reliable guy Saiga's Avatar
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    Just came back from our session! This was part 2 of our evil campaign (we're having another on Sunday, because the DM for it is going to America next week).

    I didn't post about our first campaign because it was fairly uneventful, but we were told to make characters for a level 15 evil campaign set on a continent run (and almost exclusively populated) by evil guys.

    I was Anton Astorio, a level 15 Oathbreaker Half-Elf Paladin with the Pirate background. He was once a sailor, but after a voyage brought his ship too close to the continent, it was attacked by pirates who killed the rest of the crew and destroyed his faith. He slew the pirates, reanimated them to steer the ship to the continent, and lost his humanity doing what he needed to survive.

    The other players were Telnor the Elven Warlock, who was just a selfish dick who liked to screw people out of money, and Kargok, the Orcish Fighter who thought if he took enough captives as slaves and made them worship him, he would become a God. We drafted magic items, were told that we all worked within the same organization and were showing up for a mission that would potentially allow some of us to climb the ranks. We were then given a secret mission each from different parties within the organization that would allow us to climb even higher. Mine was retrieving the Talisman of Ultimate Evil and Deck of Many Things.

    We started waiting outside the office of the Vampire giving out the mission, so I introduced myself to Telnor and we were obnoxiously polite and cordial to each other. Then I offered Kargok a handshake and he immediately did a grapple check to assert dominance. After succeeding on his contest, he asserted that I would be his slave and was quite pleased until I used Channel Divinity to make him frightened of me. He failed his retaliatory attack, and the Vampire ordered us all to enter his office.

    Fear rules prevented Garkok from joining us, leading him to lose favour with the Vampire immediately :3

    Once we'd been briefed on the mission (go to the manor of the Moonlit King, a fey lord, and retrieve the Horn of Valhalla) we had some magical effect placed upon us by these flying heads out of Volo's guide to make sure we'd stick to the mission. We were also told that three others were on this mission and left an hour before us, so we should hurry to meet up with them. We departed, immediately came across an Efreeti slave trader, and Garkok wanted to buy the slaves. I successfully rolled insight to see that the Efreeti was using weighted scales to rip off Garkok, and Telnor used so many abilities (including his Dark One's Luck) successfully preventing Garkok from paying too much.

    Garkok bought twelve slaves, I convinced him that Telnor and I could improve them, and we immediately killed six and raised them as zombies (me) and ghouls (Telnor). I issued orders for the zombies to follow Garkok so he would believe they were under his control. He was pleased.

    I also totally fucked with the most obstinate of the slaves - I was telling them all that we should get along to avoid any unpleasantness, he said there was nothing more we could do but kill them, so I killed one in front of him.

    "See, nothing more you can do"
    "Heh. I'm not finished yet." *I raise the corpse and parade it in front of him*
    "oh"

    After that, we set out toward the manor and immediately came across some weird ass trees. I sent a zombie to check the tree, it was immediately crushed. In the ensuing fight with these two silver-y trees, we lost two zombies, three ghouls, my fiend steed, our Warlock's Hurl Through Hell ability (the threes were immune to psychic damage!) and a bunch of hitpoints. Afterward, Garkok did not need to rest, so he charged forward without letting us rest. Telnor used a Scroll of Simulacrum (homeruled by the DM to work for him) to create a second, naked Telnor (dubbed Twonor) who copied all of his spellslots and Mystic Arcanums - including Feeblemind. Not looking good for me, given that we were advised of PVP later. Garkok also drafted the one magic weapon, which made my resistance to non-magical melee useless. I was surrounded by threats.

    We went through some traps, losing my last zombie, and a fight with some black puddings which was quite harsh but we made it through thanks to Telnor's wall of fire. At this point, he and Twonor were holding hands and speaking in unison (occasionally also making out). We ended our first session there, and when we picked up today we came across a room with a desk and several necklaces in a glass case. One of which was the Talisman of Ultimate Evil. Garkok rushed in, grabbed all the necklaces and put them on. He was shocked by the Talisman and instead stuff it into his pocket, being all shifty. Which didn't stand up to my Insight roll, and I knew something was wrong. I tried to Dispel Magic on him, thinking that he had being influenced by the Talisman but nothing happened. I then realized that he may have just realized what it was, and was also given a mission to retrieve it.


    After more uncooperative behaviour from him, Telnor just decided to use one of his Feeblemind on Kargok which succeeded. Reduced to 1 intelligence and charisma, and not knowing what happened, he rushed forward again. I caught up to him and tried to calm him down, then frisked him to try and take the Talisman off him. I failed and he attacked, which lead to some battle before he ran outside and was trapped in a circle of fire by Telnor (with me inside). We continued fighting, and he immediately used an action surge coupled with all his maneuvers to attack me and bring me down to 40 health. I succeeded on the strength saves against disarming and tripping, and he used the rest of his maneuvers trying to frighten me and auto-failing due to my Aura of Courage (that he did not know about). On my turn I used Command to make him drop the +1 Greatsword and take it for myself. Now using a non-magical weapon, he did very little damage to me on his next turn, all while Telnor and Twonor are pelting him with Eldritch Blasts. I ended up smiting him on my next turn for 56 damage. Telnor finished him off, and I grabbed the Talisman and shoved it into my portable hole immediately. LOOT GET

    We were immediately attacked by some flying fairy dickheads with bows, and the Warlock used a scroll of weird to successfully affect all of them (despite their advantage on the save). It was really effective until he got hit by an arrow and failed a Wisdom save against laughing uncontrollably, cancelling his concentration. Twonor and I did what we could with our ranged attacks, but after whittling them down to one left he simply managed to fly out of our attack ranges and still take shots at us. Telnor recovered, I ran inside the manor with Twonor, and Telnor decided to go for Garkok's bag instead of getting inside. Hit with another arrow, he barely succeeded on his saving throw and made it inside on his next turn, where we all readied actions to pelt the Fey with ranged attacks if it came inside. Which it did, and it was immediately killed.

    At that point, it switched over to the group that came before us. Garkok's player was given control of one of these NPCs as his new character, a Wizard this time. He immediately came into a room with one of the secret items we has seeking (a staff of some sort), possibly two of the items he needed as he immediately laid claim to them and told his two companions they could have anything else. But the Warlock with him wanted the same staff, and argued with him until the Wizard suggested paper-scissors-rock to see who gets it. The Warlock casts darkness so both can conceal their choices, Wizard uses scissors, darkness drops and oh... the Warlock chose rock. The Wizard hands over the staff, probably without even realizing the Warlock has Devil's Sight.

    And that's where the campaign ended. I'm looking forward to meeting up with the other group and seeing if we can either avoid PVP or set up the teams so that my side has an overwhelming advantage (ie drafting the Wizard over to me and Telnor/Twonor to kill the two remaining NPCs).

  11. #2391
    Queen of Love and Beauty GhostDIGIT's Avatar
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    Poor Kargok, all he wanted to do was become a god.
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  12. #2392
    I CHOOSE GOOD AVATARS mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    I was thinking, isn't it kind of strange that most PCs don't have a god they worship in their backstories. It's always only Clerics and Paladins. But in the D&D setting the gods are everywhere and affect everyday life, so it's not like real life. It's more like applying for college.
    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  13. #2393
    You're stupidity is terminal Five_X's Avatar
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    "Shit, you got into Oghma? I wanted to get into Oghma. My parents told me it was Lathander or nothing."
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  14. #2394
    Not Your Protagonist Bird of Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    I was thinking, isn't it kind of strange that most PCs don't have a god they worship in their backstories. It's always only Clerics and Paladins. But in the D&D setting the gods are everywhere and affect everyday life, so it's not like real life. It's more like applying for college.
    My players acknowledge the existence of them but are mainly content to do their own thing like most modern people, one prayed in a cry of distress but I don't think any will take a level into cleric unless I introduce a god (which I probably won't till two giant bosses later)

  15. #2395
    smug Arashi_Leonhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    I was thinking, isn't it kind of strange that most PCs don't have a god they worship in their backstories. It's always only Clerics and Paladins. But in the D&D setting the gods are everywhere and affect everyday life, so it's not like real life. It's more like applying for college.
    I played with a guy that, regardless to class, would always bring up Cayden Cailean when we played Pathfinder. Like, he'd have a rogue that admired the guy and brought him up when checking for traps since his rogue was all ADVENTURE! EXCITEMENT! DUNGEONS! in that way, or he also did a fighter that fiddled with a beer mug whenever we weren't doing anything in particular. It was pretty cool, especially when I was usually the only other religious character.
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  16. #2396
    Κύρια Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    The problem is that you probably don't know the divine situation of the world very well when you're making your character unless the DM's gone through some fairly thorough prep with you, or has told you it's one of the official ones. That can make it hard to pick a god beforehand.

    In some of my character test sheets, I have entries like "Talos or similar" and "Local not-too-evil god of storms/sky" going on.

    Granted, in theory, all the gods are still out there in the Planes, and your character might have somehow had a non-native deity start whispering in their ear because they want to establish themselves in a new crystal sphere, but that background in itself suggests an entire campaign and is pretty distracting.

    E: One useful recourse is to the old rules for divine casters, where a 'force or philosophy' was available for worship just as much as the gods. This still seems to be technically current, in that 5e Druids can still worship the force of Nature itself instead of having to have a nature deity mediate for them. (The Realms used to specifically demand you had an interceding deity because it banned force/philosophy worship but I'm not sure if that remains up to date). It's rather more broad, and therefore more simple, if your character is an adherent of something generally applicable - Nature, Mercy, Justice, the Sun, &c.
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  17. #2397
    I CHOOSE GOOD AVATARS mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    > worshipping a belief

    Paladins are like that too in 5e but I don't really like that. Basically instead of getting your powers from a diety, a Paladin believes so hard in something it just WILLS it into power. Kind of like how gods in the first place only manifest from enough people believing in them, except in this case it's one person believing really hard. So it still fits. But eh.

    But yeah you're right, I forgot half the time I make a game I just tell people to make a character and worry about the rest later. The one saving grace is it's in established D&D settings in the case of my offline games so if they wanted to find some gods to worship they could just look it up.
    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  18. #2398
    Helpful & reliable guy Saiga's Avatar
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    I actually like that for Paladins, it explains Charisma as a casting stat and separates them more from Clerics. I'm used to the Cleric/Priest class being a squishy non-melee caster, DND really blurs the line for me by allowing them to be strong melee characters.

    I didn't think about it, but you do raise a good point about non-religious classes still having gods to worship. The Lost Mines of Phandelver has a Wizard Acolye that worships Ohgma, though.

    My group are all knew players so I don't think they've really thought of the gods. It doesn't seem in character for my Barbarian to take note of any, and my future character concepts would probably not worship any gods either. My next Warlock (Fighter 1/Warlock X) may have worshipped some Gods before he became a Warlock, but his backstory is specifically falling in battle and making a pact with whatever being would offer him aid, resenting the gods from that point for not answering his pleas.

    Some other classes, like Druids or Monks don't seem like they'd worship what most players consider "gods".

  19. #2399
    Κύρια Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    There was one RP scenario suggested in the Complete Paladin's Handbook which depended on philosphy-worship that I adored. And probably tried to work into too many Paladin games when I was younger. Anyway.

    Basically, because you were Lawful Good incarnate, if you found your local church or government (whom you'd sworn to obey in all things and to whom you'd dedicated a tenth of your income) had started turning evil or neutral, you could throw an enormous hissy fit. You would tear off all their symbols, burn anything they'd given to you, and renounce them and the oath you'd sworn to them. But, being LG incarnate, not having something before which to demonstrate your palpable humility and obedience was a complete no-no. So you could swear to follow the original moral principles of the church before it went bad, and take that as your philosophy. Ultimate hipster-ism.

    Especially fun example I played out: The local church of an Lawful Neutral god of duty, order, &c. has been historically a merciful and temperate order. They shade toward Lawful Good - perfectly acceptable, worshippers can be within a step of their god. The Paladin is brought up within their ranks, absorbs their interpretations of the teachings, and becomes a devout and faithful warrior for the church. Paladin goes off, has adventures, and comes back a dozen levels later to find that (in response to all the troubles bedevilling the land which the Paladin has been trying to smite), the church has had a fundamentalist turn. They start interpreting the passages of their holy text more literally, align themselves more exactly with their god, and have generally gone LN. Paladin rejects god and church in one fell swoop, and dedicates themselves to the principles they remember and love, deeming them more just and right than any deity's say-so. They start giving their tithes to the local university-cum-hospital instead.

    I also recalling running a priest who was an ancestor-worshipper. His ancestors had no power to give him whatsoever, but the ideal of ancestor veneration was a wide-spread tenet in his culture. Resultantly, he could draw power from that faith and work magic. That was a cool and fun one.
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  20. #2400
    Lord of Tentacles Janx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    I was thinking, isn't it kind of strange that most PCs don't have a god they worship in their backstories. It's always only Clerics and Paladins. But in the D&D setting the gods are everywhere and affect everyday life, so it's not like real life. It's more like applying for college.
    I guess the flip side of 'its not like real life' though, is that in a world where gods are everwhere and affect everyday life...why focus on one god?

    In real life due to the ambiguity and questionability of the divine, there are distinctly separate religions, while the D&D universe has a bunch of deity's who very clearly co-exist. Unless one is being a divine class, why should someone devote themselves to a particular deity?

    I mean, I think a great example of this is Elderscrolls, which despite having like 10 different versions of more or less the same pantheon, most people pay hommage to multiple deities, with only priests and particularly devout focusing on individual ones. Most deities in fantasy settings similarly focus on particular spheres, so unless you're devoting your life to particular aspect of life, why aren't you paying respect to whatever deity makes sense for the action you are doing.
    Last edited by Janx; January 13th, 2017 at 09:13 PM.
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