View Poll Results: What's your Favorite System?

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  • 1e

    2 2.78%
  • 2e

    2 2.78%
  • 3.5e

    10 13.89%
  • d20 (custom rules, etc)

    10 13.89%
  • PF

    15 20.83%
  • 4e

    6 8.33%
  • 5e

    27 37.50%
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Thread: Tabletop Games Thread

  1. #3121
    Crossing Arcadia Saiga's Avatar
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    Aren't you in Japan? You're only an hour off from me if so

  2. #3122
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Yeah, I’m JST

  3. #3123
    Crossing Arcadia Saiga's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm an hour off that and I believe canaki is also JST. Mac has managed to run groups for both of us.

    I'd also be willing to DM a one-shot my friend designed if I can set it up and get a group for it.

  4. #3124
    Spoiler:
    1) What are your thoughts generally on this session? When you step back after its over now and think of it, what comes to mind? How did it compare to your other experiences?

    It was pretty enjoyable. Really enjoyed interacting with the other party members and watching their antics. I've only really done one other thing but comparatively I think this one having an increased player/party size was more fun.

    2) On a scale of 1-10 (10 being best), how much fun are you having in general? What is it making it that fun?

    I'd say a 9. I enjoyed the setting, and just acting out the character. Also the 'anime moments' and just commenting on actions was pretty entertaining.

    3) When you think "the game is fun except for 'this'", what was the "this" that sprung to mind?

    Would have liked doing some more character interactions but I think that's more on the players. Also rolling at a disadvantage sucks hue.

    4) What did you enjoy MOST about this session?

    The final boss was pretty hype. Team interactions, Wasif's sudden uh sacrifice and how everybody reacted, thinking about the puzzle, Azoth getting the riddle right.

    5) What elements of this session would you like to see again? (ie, certain NPCs, plot points, a kind of monster, a location, etc.)

    Wasif kind of died in the middle but I'm a bit curious about him (He seems pretty wealthy, but he organized such a dangerous dive to seek more wealth? How important is he in society? He doesn't seem like a bad person but a bit sheltered/naive, etc) Curious about Menet-Ka too, or rather the gods he served. Seemed like he felt they didn't uphold their part of the bargain?

    ...(I wonder if you can kill a god)

    6) Which creature did you enjoy most? Wasif, Menet-Ka, the mummies, etc.

    Calling Wasif a creature is kind of rude... More seriously, Menet-Ka was really exciting. Mummies were fun too, wish I bantered with them more.

    7) What surprised or jumped out at you most about the game?

    WHY IS THERE AN UNDERWATER SECTION INSIDE A PYRAMID. MENET-KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (Actually how did that come to be. From what the text sounds like, it doesn't sound like that area was originally flooded.)

    8) What did you think of the special effects, ie, automated enemy attacks, auto initiative, etc.

    Pretty cool. I liked how there were voice lines when Menet-Ka attacked, and auto initiative was slick.

    9) Would you change anything having finished it?

    It's kind of a shame we sort of accidentally skipped the fire elemental boss encounter. I kind of would have liked some more puzzles, with maybe some penalties for wrong answers. Rather than having perception spot out where the traps in the sand dune is, perhaps some puzzle that once solved shows the safe route? I don't know if that would be too much work though.

    10) What did you like about the other player characters? What struck you about them?

    They were pretty cool. Gaem Gaem the shounen protag, Teo the devout half-elf who ended up getting bound by enemies twice, Azoth the scholar ex-slave who threatened to kill Wasif. Oh right, on that note, in the temple things were kind of tense since we were all trying to escape but I think it would have been fun to just have like a peaceful scene where we could just interact with each other. Maybe like an epilogue right after we escaped?

    11) How did you feel about playing YOUR OWN character?

    Icarus was fun. I was a bit unsure at the beginning because I wasn't completely sure on her character yet and how she'd react to various things but I think I got the hang of it more later on. I wish I had a chance to express her character/beliefs more though.

    12) Would you play a sequel? I actually have another adventure in this same style and in the same setting in my arsenal.

    Definitely, was a blast. Would love to do another.
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  5. #3125
    ちょいちょいっと canaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiga View Post
    Yeah, I'm an hour off that and I believe canaki is also JST. Mac has managed to run groups for both of us.
    Yes, I'm in Japan. Timezone-wise we're close to Australia, and we can always drag other people living in far east asia too.

    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    Since there's no need to worry about spoilers anymore, I'll post the final set of questions for the last group here for them to answer.
    Spoiler:
    1) What are your thoughts generally on this session? When you step back after its over now and think of it, what comes to mind? How did it compare to your other experiences?
    Since I was mainly curious about whether there are differences between dungeons in western dnd players and what I knew, it was nice to see there are parts that are similar and things that are different.
    (As in, there things that set off my mental alarm bells, and there were things that made me go "wat")

    2) On a scale of 1-10 (10 being best), how much fun are you having in general? What is it making it that fun?
    I'll put it at 8.
    -1 for me not outputting enough RP lines, and another -1 for not really seeing much use in class abilities (beyond devil's sight)
    Oh wait this was better put in the next Q.

    The fun parts were weighing the risk/gain of poking things, being useful both as a player and character, and watching an entirely new player have a lot of fun.
    I'm still super new to D&D and RPing in English, but I do have a bunch of experience when you look at it as TRPG in general, so as a veteran to rolling dice and yelling lines, it's always great to see newer people have fun.

    3) When you think "the game is fun except for 'this'", what was the "this" that sprung to mind?
    The RP aspect made me aaah a lot due to me being constantly nervous about RPing and "is this OOC, what is OOC, what is my character, who are you" looping in my mind. Which leads to decreased processing speed and less lines outputted, and ultimately feeling like I just steered a mechanical automaton through something I should've put more flavor on. But this is a me problem so it's not meant to be a negative feedback on the game itself.

    The other point I mentioned above, not seeing use in class abilities was the underwater battle basically killing all use of magic.
    Genie lord specific things being not used was, well, I think I should be happy I wasn't subjected to any damage in first place.
    I wished there were ways to drain the water out of the last room, even if it involved ridiculous gimmicks that is too much hassle or risk.
    Being unable to use magic, unable to attack properly (it does make sense, arrows won't fly straight underwater)... not having any option to contribute beyond making feeble efforts to attack was extremely frustrating.

    4) What did you enjoy MOST about this session?
    The cheesy answer is "seeing Pai have fun", because being a part of introducing new people to TRPG is really rewarding. It takes group effort, you can't have good games just by yourself, and being a part of a comfortable environment where a friend can let their inner RP drive out is great.

    The selfish answer is the last shot landing perfectly, it made me feel so proud of being able to use a trump card efficiently instead of saving things until it's too late. Like how I may have been able to help more in earlier combats if I hadn't been saving spell slots for a "later" that never came.

    5) What elements of this session would you like to see again? (ie, certain NPCs, plot points, a kind of monster, a location, etc.)
    The kind of riddle gimmick where we can solve a puzzle and gain advantage later. It's really nice compared to say, dungeon gimmicks that involve getting the exactly right answer or being doomed to staring at a wall for 5 hours, or gimmicks that mean someone dies every time you do one wrong thing.

    6) Which creature did you enjoy most? Wasif, Menet-Ka, the mummies, etc.
    Combat didn't leave a strong impression beyond wishing "oh god I hope this enemy has low AC" and hoping the melees survive the nasty moves.
    I suppose the death of one mummy triggering another mummy's awakening was quite neat.

    7) What surprised or jumped out at you most about the game?
    Hearing how that suspicious hot room was basically a death trap if you triggered it was very ((((;゚Д゚))))
    But that is after the game... while playing, the underwater battle was super unexpected.

    This is derailing, but as far as I know other systems on this side of the pacific, balancing underwater abilities is always a huge issue, since if most people can't do anything underwater and need specific races/classes to be functional, most GMs just don't introduce underwater battle mechanics in their games, and since underwater battles aren't a thing in general, abilities that let people do things underwater are dead.
    It's a bit like riding skills being meh, since you can't always bring a mount into indoor battles and they end up awkwardly standing around doing nothing. Situation specific abilities that involve other people suffering too much is always delicate to handle.

    My last character with underwater things was basically a "I know this is useless and I'm only grabbing this for lore reasons" kind of deal in my mind.

    8) What did you think of the special effects, ie, automated enemy attacks, auto initiative, etc.
    I didn't know you could do those on roll20 and it was interesting to see.
    The voice effects were also unexpected.

    9) Would you change anything having finished it?
    At character creation, CON and INT should've been the other way around, considering backstory. It was an entirely "I can't have AC so let me have HP at least, who needs INT" kind of decision, and as things were, I didn't need HP either.

    During the game, I should've tried using Hold Person on the mummies to make things a bit easier for the melees. ... They do count as humanoid, right.
    Saving spell slots because of the lack of rests wasn't exactly the best decision I made, now that I know the last room prevents me using them.

    10) What did you like about the other player characters? What struck you about them?
    Gaem, our best shounen MC ever. I was prepared to see a character out of thinbooks, this was unexpected in the best possibly way. The hobgoblin ethics and the leadership shining through made him a great character with depth.
    Icarus, the other ex-slave in our group. When we were discussing character creation, I was worried we'd be too alike or something like that, but the different focuses on power/knowledge made us entirely different despite sharing a background, and that was really nice to observe.
    Teo, the sole not-oppressed person in our ragtag group of low status rabble. Mechanically it was interesting to see how other warlocks could be built, and I'm glad I got to look at the sheet and learn from it before we started. Story-wise, her selfless sharing of ointment despite having high status was nice, and when we were trying to get possessed Gaem back to normal, I was sad thinking "the HP we're chipping away is the HP Teo gave to Gaem with her item".

    11) How did you feel about playing YOUR OWN character?
    I know it's entirely my fault for building Azoth's backstory and personality the way it was, but never mentioning why he was working there in-story probably wasn't very friendly from IC perspective. He's the kind of person that needs time for people to make him open up in either a good way or a bad way, it's a designed flaw to be distant.

    As a clump of data, I was happy to see I didn't make any terrible mistakes, and he functioned the way he was meant to: seeing things, understanding them, and shooting at enemies from a relatively safe distance
    Ideally I should've picked the "can read any language" invocation, but basic combat needs took priority.
    I was glad I didn't take the path of focusing more on combat and dealing more damage, the balance was nice.

    12) Would you play a sequel? I actually have another adventure in this same style and in the same setting in my arsenal.
    Sure, it would be nice to apply what I learned from this run and see if I can do better at being the best paranoid prepared player!
    If the hypothetical sequel will be with the same group, I'd like to see how better our combat synergy will be if I wasn't so stingy on slots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by canaki View Post
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  6. #3126
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Excellent, everybody has replied. Thanks for the responses.

    Now for my own!

    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    10. They were great fun and everyone played off each other perfectly! Everybody had a good personality and just clicked all together. Gaem is my favourite shounen harem hero 10/10 would rub with ointment again.
    A tangent, but what made you take the ointment?

    I am glad that Pai's character went over so well. I liked the warlord backstory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    11. Personally I thought there'd be more character interaction like, opportunities to use Persuade, Deception, etc., as well as our status so I built a character partly around that. I had a great combat setup which was awesome to see come to fruition, just missed out a bit on not getting to use my core skills.
    I heard this from about every group, but I don't place things in games only when it is relevant so much as for setting and atmosphere. Wasif served as the focal point of the social interaction in this game, with the Status playing into how he perceived the various PCs. With Wasif also being a believer in Aten, he regarded Teo as a sort of celebrity. The others, meanwhile, were more like the common servants he'd have around. That perception changed as the adventure progressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paitouch View Post
    1) What are your thoughts generally on this session? When you step back after its over now and think of it, what comes to mind? How did it compare to your other experiences?

    No other real experiences, this was like my first full RP session. Could have definitely made some better choices when putting together my character's build. But it was a lot of fun, really enjoyed myself more than I expected.
    Your character actually had decent AC, it's just that the others had higher. The combination of Battlemaster and Great Weapon Fighting ended up working well, letting you offset the penalty from the special attack. It is only natural to improve your character choices as time goes on. I am glad you enjoyed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paitouch View Post
    2) On a scale of 1-10 (10 being best), how much fun are you having in general? What is it making it that fun?

    9 or 10. I had a lot more control over my character's actions than I thought I would, if it was longer, I'm sure we could have gotten into more interaction stuff.
    How so? You mean like compared to a video game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paitouch View Post
    3) When you think "the game is fun except for 'this'", what was the "this" that sprung to mind?

    Was kinda hoping we'd get more chances to interact between characters, but you did say it'd just be a one night game, so I probably shouldn't have expected too much interaction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paitouch View Post
    8) What did you think of the special effects, ie, automated enemy attacks, auto initiative, etc.

    Thought it was pretty cool, didn't expect so many bells and whistles.
    It's not normally like that, as doing everything by hand has its own charm. I wanted to try and experiment with how it felt here. The automatic initiative rolling is definitely something I use in pretty much every game though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paitouch View Post
    9) Would you change anything having finished it?

    Yeah, I would have swapped out Commander's Strike for something that could have saved my final attack during the last boss fight (still salty).
    In the end, it only made it feel more ANIME when the final boss was starting to push back at the final moment only for Icarus and Azoth to step in with the nakama save.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paitouch View Post
    11) How did you feel about playing YOUR OWN character?

    I wish I had more dialogue/narration for him, it was my first time and I was having a bit of trouble keeping pace with the events. Spent too much time thinking about what I wanted him to say. But when he went full anime during battles, it was awesome, was actually laughing IRL during those parts.
    There is always a "settling in" period when you start a new character, like adjusting to moving to a new neighborhood. When you throw in it also being your first time playing at all, it is only natural. After a few sessions, you would probably be snapping off retorts instantly. Part of the reason Menet-Ka's Grasp is so pushy with the time limit is to avoid having everyone stand around awkwardly unsure of what to say to each other, which tends to happen in these situations. (Though looking back, Reiu's group managed to do quite a bit, but that is because most of their time game time went to smooching.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangerang View Post
    5) What elements of this session would you like to see again? (ie, certain NPCs, plot points, a kind of monster, a location, etc.)

    Wasif kind of died in the middle but I'm a bit curious about him (He seems pretty wealthy, but he organized such a dangerous dive to seek more wealth? How important is he in society? He doesn't seem like a bad person but a bit sheltered/naive, etc) Curious about Menet-Ka too, or rather the gods he served. Seemed like he felt they didn't uphold their part of the bargain?

    ...(I wonder if you can kill a god)
    I leave all interpretations of the characters and story to you. :3 It is interesting to see them.

    You can. That's why the gods use "masks" to hide their identities. They get power from worship just like Type Moon entities, so making sure they are worshipped on multiple fronts protects them if one of their religions dies out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangerang View Post
    7) What surprised or jumped out at you most about the game?

    WHY IS THERE AN UNDERWATER SECTION INSIDE A PYRAMID. MENET-KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (Actually how did that come to be. From what the text sounds like, it doesn't sound like that area was originally flooded.)
    Seeing peoples' reaction to that was one of my favorite parts. xd "The door opens, and....... you see water." "What."

    Hmmm, there are definite answers to that, Tang, but I am torn on whether I should divulge those answers... normally I let everything stand on its own, and its up to the players to deduce what they can, as they have a limited view which brings them in line with their character's mindsets. If some of the story goes unnoticed, then that's just the way the cookie crumbles. In real life and in most activities that engage us, the lack of a concrete answer is compelling and drives us forward. That is why Nasu gives vague answers instead of "yeah it is exactly like this." I prefer to leave people to see things from their character's perspective in that way, since that was what was "real" to you. It preserves a sense of mystery and imagination. So for now I will just say there is an answer.

    I suppose since it's a one shot and it's completely over I will give some answers, after all of these responses are done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangerang View Post
    9) Would you change anything having finished it?

    It's kind of a shame we sort of accidentally skipped the fire elemental boss encounter. I kind of would have liked some more puzzles, with maybe some penalties for wrong answers. Rather than having perception spot out where the traps in the sand dune is, perhaps some puzzle that once solved shows the safe route? I don't know if that would be too much work though.
    Be careful what you wish for! The fire elemental was a deliberately unfair fight with everything stacked against you, meant to be a Bad End. So surviving it at all is like beating one of those secret JRPG bosses that are stronger than the final boss and will smash you if you fight it before getting a New Game+. (And I totally contradicted myself above here.)

    That sounds like an interesting idea. I think the main issue would be the extra time it would add to the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangerang View Post
    10) What did you like about the other player characters? What struck you about them?

    They were pretty cool. Gaem Gaem the shounen protag, Teo the devout half-elf who ended up getting bound by enemies twice, Azoth the scholar ex-slave who threatened to kill Wasif. Oh right, on that note, in the temple things were kind of tense since we were all trying to escape but I think it would have been fun to just have like a peaceful scene where we could just interact with each other. Maybe like an epilogue right after we escaped?
    The Menet-Ka: After Story.

    Quote Originally Posted by canaki View Post
    1) What are your thoughts generally on this session? When you step back after its over now and think of it, what comes to mind? How did it compare to your other experiences?
    Since I was mainly curious about whether there are differences between dungeons in western dnd players and what I knew, it was nice to see there are parts that are similar and things that are different.
    (As in, there things that set off my mental alarm bells, and there were things that made me go "wat")
    Oh, you can't say something like that and not tell me more. What are the things that are similar and different? I remember you touched on this before, but I am still curious.

    Quote Originally Posted by canaki View Post
    3) When you think "the game is fun except for 'this'", what was the "this" that sprung to mind?
    The RP aspect made me aaah a lot due to me being constantly nervous about RPing and "is this OOC, what is OOC, what is my character, who are you" looping in my mind. Which leads to decreased processing speed and less lines outputted, and ultimately feeling like I just steered a mechanical automaton through something I should've put more flavor on. But this is a me problem so it's not meant to be a negative feedback on the game itself.
    I noticed this from watching other players, that they tended to enjoy the game more if they had a character to play off of rather than just piloting a build. It is a balance since that will make it more likely you might die, but it would probably be more fun regardless.

    To me there seemed to be plenty of personality to Azoth though, at least the parts I saw. The parts of the backstory with his mother and his unexpected swiftness in reprimanding Wasif made me want to see more.

    Quote Originally Posted by canaki View Post
    The other point I mentioned above, not seeing use in class abilities was the underwater battle basically killing all use of magic.
    Genie lord specific things being not used was, well, I think I should be happy I wasn't subjected to any damage in first place.
    I wished there were ways to drain the water out of the last room, even if it involved ridiculous gimmicks that is too much hassle or risk.
    Being unable to use magic, unable to attack properly (it does make sense, arrows won't fly straight underwater)... not having any option to contribute beyond making feeble efforts to attack was extremely frustrating.
    Yup, some other people mentioned that too. At least you got to be the MVP with solving all of the riddles and puzzles.

    Quote Originally Posted by canaki View Post
    4) What did you enjoy MOST about this session?
    The cheesy answer is "seeing Pai have fun", because being a part of introducing new people to TRPG is really rewarding. It takes group effort, you can't have good games just by yourself, and being a part of a comfortable environment where a friend can let their inner RP drive out is great.

    The selfish answer is the last shot landing perfectly, it made me feel so proud of being able to use a trump card efficiently instead of saving things until it's too late. Like how I may have been able to help more in earlier combats if I hadn't been saving spell slots for a "later" that never came.
    That final shot really put the capstone on the anime feeling of the entire battle, with Pai pushing the final boss to the edge of defeat before being the target of a last minute comeback, and then having you and Tang swoop in to save the day. The amulet reminded me of stories where the protag has a seemingly useless object that ends up being the key to the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by canaki View Post
    7) What surprised or jumped out at you most about the game?
    Hearing how that suspicious hot room was basically a death trap if you triggered it was very ((((;゚Д゚))))
    But that is after the game... while playing, the underwater battle was super unexpected.

    This is derailing, but as far as I know other systems on this side of the pacific, balancing underwater abilities is always a huge issue, since if most people can't do anything underwater and need specific races/classes to be functional, most GMs just don't introduce underwater battle mechanics in their games, and since underwater battles aren't a thing in general, abilities that let people do things underwater are dead.
    It's a bit like riding skills being meh, since you can't always bring a mount into indoor battles and they end up awkwardly standing around doing nothing. Situation specific abilities that involve other people suffering too much is always delicate to handle.

    My last character with underwater things was basically a "I know this is useless and I'm only grabbing this for lore reasons" kind of deal in my mind.
    Hah, if you had somehow used your last character then you would have been all set once the water was introduced.

    Yeah, underwater regions tend to be areas that, if you were playing a campaign, would be something you would spend time preparing for.

    From what I see of the encounters, it seems like the intent was that each one would give some people a chance to shine. You were not able to do anything underwater, but were key in solving the two puzzles and avoiding the traps in the sand room (with Icarus there). Gaem and Icarus could not read Ancient Nurian, but were helpful when it came to dishing out damage and ironically being the party tank in Gaem's case. Teo ended up being a kind of all-arounder.

    But generally these sort of convention games that are meant to be played by an infinite amount of people with endless variation are more like just throwing them at it and seeing what happens, with the overall result between all the different groups being an entertainment to itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by canaki View Post
    8) What did you think of the special effects, ie, automated enemy attacks, auto initiative, etc.
    I didn't know you could do those on roll20 and it was interesting to see.
    The voice effects were also unexpected.
    It is done with a Pro account, that lets you make your own Javascript or import them. Sometimes it's more trouble than it's worth, but I really wanted to remove any slowdowns since we were playing one night only.

    Quote Originally Posted by canaki View Post
    10) What did you like about the other player characters? What struck you about them?
    Gaem, our best shounen MC ever. I was prepared to see a character out of thinbooks, this was unexpected in the best possibly way. The hobgoblin ethics and the leadership shining through made him a great character with depth.
    Icarus, the other ex-slave in our group. When we were discussing character creation, I was worried we'd be too alike or something like that, but the different focuses on power/knowledge made us entirely different despite sharing a background, and that was really nice to observe.
    Teo, the sole not-oppressed person in our ragtag group of low status rabble. Mechanically it was interesting to see how other warlocks could be built, and I'm glad I got to look at the sheet and learn from it before we started. Story-wise, her selfless sharing of ointment despite having high status was nice, and when we were trying to get possessed Gaem back to normal, I was sad thinking "the HP we're chipping away is the HP Teo gave to Gaem with her item".
    Haha, the entire time Gaem was hacking away at Menet Ka I was wondering how it was going to look when all those feats and damage were turned on everyone.

    I liked how Gaem turned out too; I was expecting more brute force, but there was the layer of tactical thinking that came with being a general. I was interested in seeing how Teo would interact with the other PCs of lesser status, but there was not as much of a chance for that.

    Hmm, I suppose the next step is to put out a list of the various groups, and then begin tallying various metrics to make a table out of. "Most treasure gained," "most damage dealt," etc.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  7. #3127
    アルテミット・ソット Ultimate Thot Five_X's Avatar
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    I took the ointment for the sole, instinctual reason of, "we're going to need healing, aren't we?"
    <NEW FIC!> Revolution #9: Somewhere out there, there's a universe in which your mistakes and failures never happened, and all you wished for is true. How hard would you fight to make that real?

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  8. #3128
    Talking to mAc before the adventure about how swimming works

    We have a hearty chuckle over the notion of swimming in the desert

    Suddenly, WAAATTTTTTEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR

  9. #3129
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Haha, swimming in the desert, he says. Good one.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  10. #3130
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Now for a list of all of the players who played! Most of these are BLers, but some are offsite friends.

    The first two groups were over a year ago, so I can't remember anything about the first group's characters.

    Status Players Character
    Team No Defeat
    Kaufer
    Alulim
    Pale Rider
    SirA
    Team Smooches
    Aekenon (Mhaar)
    Adun (Sarathea)
    Reiu (Sixten)
    Steak (Jix)
    Team Deodorant
    Mucky (Theodoric)
    Lavarinth (Vhas-eurker)
    Thalraxal (Romelia)
    Steak (Jix)
    Team Waifu
    KT (Ayesha)
    Bloble (Laisis)
    Ark (Celeste)
    Satehi (Thyria)
    Team Salt
    Siriel (Samia)
    Christemo (Asmundur)
    Isk (Aryeht)
    Frosty (Jukka)
    Team Raiders Of
    The Lost Tomb
    Spoony (Thorvald)
    Trubo (Morvin)
    Sesto (Serir)
    Vri (Firuz)
    Team Alcoholics
    Anonymous
    Adun (Nigarde)
    Lavarinth (Kasa)
    Lyzol (Glip)
    Gemineye (Duerdan)
    Styles (Anduin)
    GMO (Kadesh)
    Team Death Metal
    Opti (Rhogar)
    Zurvan (Garen)
    Saiga (Sahib)
    darkMAN (Hushed)
    Team Oppressed
    Canaki (Azoth)
    Pai (Gaem)
    Tang (Icarus)
    Five (Teo)
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  11. #3131
    The All Sleep King IskatuMesk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    The final Menet Ka game is complete. I hope you guys had fun.

    I hereby lift the spoiler ban on Menet Ka. You can now openly talk about it with anyone anywhere, about all of your exploits and near death encounters.
    I made an account here just so I could post a reply to this!!!!!

    I read a few logs and ofc played my own game with siriel/christemo/frosty. We got thoroughly destroyed by the fire elemental. Its retaliation did 9/10 of my hp instantly and it was all downhill after that since I was the only one who could really do consistent damage. Zombies couldn't hit me even when I was unconscious and on fire. We did finish it off but it was over by then anyways. I made a mistake during character creation and had less hp than I should of but it really made no difference. Our teamplay was kind of off and most of the fights got initiated without anyone really taking a pause to study some things. I played terribly, but I'm a terrible player so I guess that goes without saying. There was a few things I wanted to do but couldn't figure out how to do them (blocking the gas seemed a fool's errand without special tools but apparently you can just plug it with anything because D&D shrug).

    I noticed in the few logs I read that the first battle always started with the specters critting and monstrous damage coming out of the red pudding. Christemo would have taken like 40 something unhealable damage right off the bat if it wasn't for the Goliath racial trait, but it didn't matter a lot because we lacked a lot of healing anyways. We managed to seduce talk our way out of the Mummy fight, though. Our Wasif survived until the anubian pit then got 1shot with a crit iirc.

    I think having the right spells for the right situations and Inspiration mattered quite a bit. Comprehend Languages is busted in these kind of settings, because it's like google translate, especially fitting for Rhogar given how he's the kind of guy who skipped school and would most likely skip it again.
    Yeah, it was definitely a game that benefited really heavily from somehow having the right solutions in your kit at character creation. And the right items as well since you can find some clever uses for them. I never thought you could use cloth to block gas because it didn't make sense to me from an IRL perspective but it worked here. My inexperience and lack of familiarity with thinking that way caught up to me a lot in this game and looking back there were a lot of things I should have tried to do, but I was also trying to match the pace of the other players and really didn't feel like I had the time to do much.

    It's kind of a shame we sort of accidentally skipped the fire elemental boss encounter. I kind of would have liked some more puzzles, with maybe some penalties for wrong answers. Rather than having perception spot out where the traps in the sand dune is, perhaps some puzzle that once solved shows the safe route? I don't know if that would be too much work though.
    From what I understand every fight (with maybe the exception of the last one) is avoidable in this game - fighting at all is the punishment in many cases. My group didn't spot anything despite fairly high perception and we missed quite a few things as a result. Some of the fights in this can really screw you depending on your party composition. Also, even if you can tank down a fight it takes precious time and oxygen. Also, as one group discovered, some spells/abilities used by certain classes in combat (namely fire) will basically just kill you, so it's really best to avoid fights when you can.


    I liked seeing the different ways Wasif died.
    Last edited by IskatuMesk; July 29th, 2018 at 11:03 PM. Reason: what are bb tags and how do they even work

  12. #3132
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IskatuMesk View Post
    I liked seeing the different ways Wasif died.
    I burst out laughing.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  13. #3133
    The All Sleep King IskatuMesk's Avatar
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    Oh, I also saw a few things else I wanted to comment on, if you don't mind.


    Quote Originally Posted by canaki View Post
    The RP aspect made me aaah a lot due to me being constantly nervous about RPing and "is this OOC, what is OOC, what is my character, who are you" looping in my mind.
    I have a lot of experience writing for mods, designing characters and stuff but absolutely none in real-time anything. Coupled with extreme and debilitating social anxiety and I really didn't think D&D would be a thing I would be interested in (or could do). I only have a tiny amount of experience and most of it is in DM'ing and not playing, so I can definitely sympathize with that. For me, the problem begins less at "What is OOC" and more about "how will this be perceived" in an OOC way. Even discussing mindsets behind potential IC decisions I may have made in a session has resulted in massive clashes, so I always triple-guess anything I ever think to say or do. In that respect I find playing to be extraordinarily difficult in the few times I've been able to do it, even with people I know very well, because it feels like there are a hundred invisible lines of how IC interactions could be perceived in a manner I don't want them to.

    Furthermore, I find the very concept of writing on the spot super difficult. I've always had a lot of trouble with descriptive and narrative writing, with my strengths in dialogue. However, my experience in writing dialogue is exclusively from my own projects - ergo, I had IC perspective on the involved parties for dialogue so formulating social structure was very easy. Furthermore, I reviewed my written work dozens to hundreds of times in very rapid succession, iterating constantly, and seeing initial products as merely "drafts" or ideas to later be polished. This is because I lack confidence in my work and initial interpretations of my own intentions, and tend to structure things in an open-ended manner. Another comparison is when I created a 3-hour radioplay - I wrote out a lot of script for it years in advance, but 50% of it ended up being improvised on the spot anyways.

    All that said, I found D&D to actually be one of the most powerful and moving things in my life to this point. As someone who devoted almost all of their time to building stuff, designing things, making things, being able to play them out had been both extremely fascinating, educational, and more fulfilling than anything else I've ever done. It's like taking out all the agonizing of development and instead seeing your efforts live in real-time and building something in real-time. I long had ambitions for making CGI movies and such, and had to abandon them, but D&D supplanted those for a time and had brought back a spark of passion in creativity I had thought long dead. I definitely didn't have the skillset or experience for it, though.


    Improvising for me is very difficult, for this reason...


    Which leads to decreased processing speed and less lines outputted, and ultimately feeling like I just steered a mechanical automaton through something I should've put more flavor on.

    For me, this is an ideal position to be in, but for a little different of a reason. If I can automate something it's because I am comfortable. The automation comes without awareness. When I am DM'ing, I am multithreading two separate mental processes - the actuation of the game and then the analysis of the game. The actuation involves a lot of numbers, getting into immersion with the NPC's, figuring out how they may react to X or Y, keeping track of the map/world events (my world is very volatile and things change quite a lot throughout the course of a few sessions), and more mechanical things like how fights may or may not pan out, so on so forth. The analytical half is trying to read the players and the room mood, so to speak. This part is really undeveloped for me because I have very little social experience as a person, only as a designer and a caster. It's a very lopsided thing, so I didn't get it very good in my first few games and suffered a lot of setbacks as a result.

    However, once I found my groove in the first half and allowed myself to do things just how I felt they flowed naturally and automated it, it allowed me to get comfortable enough to handle the social aspect far more easily. As a player I didn't really have that problem, but I wasn't able to read the room mood or other players very well due to inexperience anyways. Since I lacked confidence, I wasn't able to really gel with the groups of people I played with, even though they were all my friends and I at least superficially knew them (and the DM). But because of that superficial second/triple-guessing that I carried with me, I couldn't fit into an automated routine that let me embrace immersion completely, and this lead to me having very little actual interaction even though I was actively trying to work on and pace out my input.

    Even in the games or sessions I felt I participated in more strongly, that didn't translate into an effective engagement level, but rather a noise floor that was elevated by extent of sort of dancing around the core motion of the game and not integrating with it. As opposed to your observations, I had a lot of flavor but no "RPing", if you will.

    The reason why I felt inclined to type up this novel in response to your comments was largely because of these parts.

    But this is a me problem so it's not meant to be a negative feedback on the game itself.
    The cheesy answer is "seeing Pai have fun", because being a part of introducing new people to TRPG is really rewarding. It takes group effort, you can't have good games just by yourself, and being a part of a comfortable environment where a friend can let their inner RP drive out is great.
    I'll start out of order and go with the latter first, but hopefully my observations will be coherent enough that it'll make sense when I bring it together.

    I've heard commentary very similar to this in regards to myself but in unrelated mediums (FF14 and some associates of a friend made a similar comment when I started playing with them). I didn't really understand what that meant until I was a few sessions into learning how to DM and I introduced a long-time friend but completely inexperienced player into the mix. The sessions were one-on-one, and he, much like me, struggles with social anxiety in many ways. The first session was really difficult for him, and we had to take a few breaks very early into the session so he could pull himself together and think things through. Most people wouldn't have the patience to wait 2-3 hours to pick up a few minutes after starting, but by the time we reached our second session he was playing pretty well, and now 35 sessions into the campaign later he's actually one of the people effectively leading the group and is super into it.

    I don't think it's a cheesy answer because it was also a motivation behind a lot of things I did in modding. Making educational videos, training people in voice acting, all that kind of stuff. 99% of it never amounted to anything, most people abandoned their projects, but that 1% either moved on to joining the game industry or otherwise produced quality content thanks to my interactions with them. As someone who has struggled immensely with the process of learning, I've always wished I had someone like you (or me) to watch over me in those kinds of times. I had a few such people with me when I started D&D, but half the groups I played with I did not know intimately, and the very subject itself still remains alien to me this day, so I didn't perform well at all when it came to the test.

    Comfort is one of the most important things in content production, and make no mistake, RP'ing is producing content, and it's one of the toughest mediums for doing so. That's why I feel that automation, and being able to take advantage of it, is really nice.

    I interpret automation as comfort, at least to an extent. If you're comfortable enough with something - say, voice acting a character or writing out their dialogue - then the reflexes to the unexpected will be easier to address. For example, roleplaying out an unexpected circumstance or a stressful encounter. When I started getting my friend involved with D&D, he was eager to get into it but clearly was going to struggle with actually "playing a role", because some elements of creative development and writing were very challenging for him. I intentionally set him up with a game that ramped up in its complexity and forced him to make some tough decisions IC in a reasonably complex social situation so he sort of knew what to expect out of the medium - some things I had been indirectly introduced to or witnessed in third person back when I still played myself. As time passed, and he grew more comfortable with his character and what he wanted out of it, it became an automation in the sense that he sort of "knew" what his character would do or say in reaction to certain events or situations. To me, this is an expression of strong roleplaying - automation of expression alludes to a strong synergy between personal conjecture and IC presentation, allowing you to breathe life into the motions of your character without needing to "think it through". Flavor therefore comes more naturally.

    I am able to accomplish this with my NPC's while DM'ing because a lot of the things I otherwise struggle with in terms of social anxiety are dissolved by extent of the room mood for PC vs NPC being extremely different to PC vs PC. Everyone sort of expects different things, and I don't need to be concerned about something being portrayed differently.

    To bring us back to square one - Menet-Ka - this was actually a big issue for me during the game. I felt uncomfortable at periods during the game because I was both trying to keep pace with the rest of the group but at the same time not entirely sure "how" to keep pace. Since I wasn't familiar with the people involved or their style of play, and I didn't want to create any potential conflict (either IC or OOC), I entered a similar, negative form of automation to what you describe. It was also due to Menet-Ka's presentation and the fact I hadn't played D&D as a player in an extremely long time. I still had a lot of fun, but I definitely felt like I missed all the opportunities I had to actually roleplay and get into the game, and felt more like a spectator as a result. Menet-Ka was a tough game to play for two reasons - The lack of oxygen meant you were discouraged thematically to speak IC, and the time-sensitive nature of the game (IC and OOC) amounted to the same thing. Our game had roleplaying, but it didn't make sense for my character IC to speak much.

    That said, despite all this the game felt pretty well-paced and I felt mAc did a good job in terms of laying out the timing for everything.
    TAKE IT ♂ BOY

  14. #3134
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    What do you mean by difference in room mood between PCs vs NPCs?
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  15. #3135
    The All Sleep King IskatuMesk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    What do you mean by difference in room mood between PCs vs NPCs?
    Basic example; PC vs NPC

    Players expect that you, as a DM, are going to deliver characters whose intent is to disrupt them, put them at disadvantage, attack them, undermine their efforts, etc. They don't think less of you because of X or Y happened (unless you go into the realm of bad DM'ing doing stuff just to spite the players but let's keep it simple). The NPC's are not your personal intention or conjecture, they're a part of the game world, you are merely a conduit through which they exist.

    Basic example; PC vs PC

    Generally speaking PvP in most games I've played (or read about) is something that is only done through mutual OOC understanding. Most players understand that if a PvP situation is to occur it is merely an extension of an OOC attempt to drive IC engagement and not a personal attack OOC (Again, assuming people are not being dicks). However, especially in games you don't know the players extremely well, I am ultra conscious of anything I do being perceived as A.) suboptimal for the survival or wellbeing of another player's character, or B.) being interpreted as some kind of OOC vendetta. Even if 99% of the instances this may have come up it wouldn't have come across that way, I am ultra conscious of it because I am inexperienced and super conscious of the fact that I am an outsider to the medium and an outsider to almost everyone I was playing with.

    Not so basic example;

    Room mood is my way of defining how a mood of game motion is being interpreted. For example, room mood is how I define slowdowns in player interaction (e.g. what is engaging to who and why and how that is translating to the pacing of responses and the nature of responses), how I determine how certain mechanics or themes in combat are being assimilated (I recently had an encounter with a very large number of yet-unseen types of enemies and enemy abilities and paid very close attention to how the players responded to the revealing of new elements in that encounter), so on so forth.

    Room mood is like an invisible colored energy whose momentum and shape is an approximation of how a group of individuals is engaging with information presented before them. I build it based on the type of things people say, how fast they say them, who says them, and in response to what. It isn't individualistic, but it's shaped by individuals.

    As a player, it's hard to build this for me because I lack the advantage of Perspective. As a DM, I know everything that can or will happen in 90% of cases except for what the players will do or say, but can realistically expect to know what they will do or say based on previous examples and the current shape of the room mood. An example would be the party bartering for survival against a clearly threatening foe that hasn't attacked yet, feeling their way around and tiptoeing around confrontation. I know the circumstances necessary for the foe to engage or for them to disengage. Some things can surprise me, but the room mood tells me how to best take advantage of those surprises to produce the most engaging and immersive response out of the environment and NPC's as a result. Since my goal is building a platform for which the players to express themselves, making the most out of their expressions means manipulating the room mood based on my understanding of it. If I have an accurate depiction of the player's current mood and thought processes I know best how to provoke the mental responses I want - excitement, fear, etc.

    As a player this is tougher because the things I do to provoke those mental responses are all personalized by the extent of my PC being my hand. Since I am not shaping a game world to build a foundation for trial, but am instead contextually a part of the body whom faces that trial, it's subconsciously expected for me to act in certain ways. I'm both unfamiliar with what is expected of me, what should be expected of me, what is in the bounds of my actions to make without coming at odds of things I don't know, and I am also usually in the dark for most of the game world around me. Things I do IC can be and have been misconstrued very easily even if they make sense from a roleplaying perspective, and I risk impacting the room mood in a manner that puts a negative bias OOC towards myself. In this sense, the room mood as a player for me is much less about how the game world is shaped but how I personally congeal with it. Since in most cases I played D&D I was in totally alien territory I was almost always more concerned about how well I was meshing with the players than I was the game world and their characters IC, which was a lot of added mental overhead and greatly impacted my ability to play.
    TAKE IT ♂ BOY

  16. #3136
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    OK, as promised, I will now clarify questions about the background of the game that people asked me.

    Question: why was the final wing flooded?
    Answer: contrary to what you'd expect, it was not an accident. The tomb was built intentionally beside a nearby oasis that functioned as a local leyline. The waters of the oasis were flooded into the tomb so that its powers could be tapped into. This was the reason Menet Ka's burial chamber was in this wing; it was where the flow of the leyline was strongest.

    Question: what were the runes?
    Answer: The runes were geomancy glyphs, a form of leyline magic that the tomb's builders inscribed to tap into the power of the leyline and use it to power the tomb's magics. Because of their age, they were very volatile, and shocks to them could cause them to explode and harm things in their vicinity.

    A character with Expertise in Arcana would have been able to rewire them to change how the tomb worked, deactivating traps in the room the runes were in.

    Question: what was that grail mud thing? Was there a way to avoid them?
    Answer: the "grail mud" monster and the ghosts were nightmares born from Menet-Ka's slumber. The statues in the first room have conjuration spells which summon them, and as a result casting Dispel Magic on the statues will avoid them.

    Defeating them wakes Menet-Ka from his sleep and alerts him that the characters have entered the tomb.

    Question: What was the deal with the sand monsters?
    Answer: They are called Anubians, and are sand elementals bound by Menet-Ka and his priests to serve him. Being forced into slavery makes them resentful of anyone that reminds them of Menet-Ka or the spellcasters under him, and they relish tearing those characters apart. They were tasked with protecting Menet-Ka's sister queens, who slumber in the room beyond.

    Defeating the queens first does not disable the traps in the room, but the Anubians will no longer rise to fight as their purpose is lost.

    Question: what was that giant maze?
    Answer: the necropolis inside the temple was the great burial grounds for all of the dedicated followers who joined Menet-Ka in death in a mass burial, anticipating eternal life under him.

    Question: what about the three mummies?
    Answer: the mummies were three sisters from the same noble House whom Menet-Ka coveted. He slew their husbands to take the three sisters for himself, promising them eternal life at his side in exchange for their submission. He sealed the deal by giving them half of the golden tablet. They resented him but accepted because of the promise.

    Characters with knowledge of Ancient Nurian and a penchant for persuasion could have convinced the mummies to support them to spite Menet-Ka.

    Question: what was the golden tablet?
    Answer: the golden tablet contained the plans for the temple and thus the secrets of its operation.

    Question: what was Menet-Ka's plan?
    Answer: it is not unusual for devout followers of gods to be given eternal life, if they submit completely to their deity. Menet-Ka, however, saw himself as above that, and wanted eternal life on his own terms. He wanted to become one of Anu-Akma's masks, supplanting the god and taking some of that power for himself. To that end, Menet-Ka built a holy temple where he would be buried with his religious followers and revived to eternal life with the waters of the leyline.

    Instead, the God of the Dead answered this arrogance by cursing him and his followers with undeath and sealing him inside his tomb for all time. The seat of his power had become his prison. Embittered, Menet-Ka's new goal became to secure his freedom. Rather than spurning tomb robbers, he welcomed them, so he could capture them and offer them as a penitent sacrifice to Anu Akma. He just had to be patient...

    Question: what was the deal with that flameskull in the fire elemental room?
    Answer: a former warlord who challenged Menet-Ka for his heresies was sealed here and made to become one of Menet-Ka's servants.

    Evidence that the adventurers were worshippers of Anu-Akma would cause it to change sides, though it would be of little direct help against the fire elemental. Instead, it could offer advice and knowledge about what was going on.

    ---

    That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but if anyone has any more questions or things they were curious about feel free to ask.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  17. #3137
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    You never answered my comments, Mac, either here or over at Discord.

  18. #3138
    祖 Ancestor Vritra's Avatar
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    Oh so that's what was going on interesting.

  19. #3139
    [DA YO intensifies] arkturus's Avatar
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    Wow I love lore
    <Airen> I play hetero every once in awhile
    Spoiler:
    <~Katie> dude who gives a fuck about girls being gay, sometimes girls aren't gay and that decision should be respected

    Spoiler:
    [12:21.40] that might be a top tier post[12:21.45] frantic[12:21.47] post of the month, even[12:21.48] this right here[12:21.49] is MC [12:21.56] johnny has nothing on this dude[12:22.00] he's the MC of the nisio half[12:22.12] so wait[12:22.15] [ ] is, after all, my rival character[12:22.16] am i the gag heroine[12:22.20] yes

  20. #3140
    Harder Better Edgier Optimus's Avatar
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    Wow, amazing! So many cool things and tidbits we missed in our exploration, I'm glad I stopped by to read that post, so thanks mAc.

    I do have a question, what made Menet-Ka scary as a final boss? We didn't see much of what he could do because well, Rhogar happened.
    Last edited by Optimus; July 31st, 2018 at 09:23 PM.
    [22:42] <Leo> look it's not our fault we can function properly with a cock in our mouthes

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