That was my thought as well. I had no idea they came out of the blue.
That was my thought as well. I had no idea they came out of the blue.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
That's in 5E, right?Originally Posted by Seika
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Is there still a campaign guide for the Realms now that they're the main setting? I'm curious about the current status of some of my old favourite realms and gods.
The main book is the Sword Coast Guide.
Also is it just me, or are the Harpers villains? They just decide they can go run around overthrowing any government and do it from behind the scenes like some sort of Forgotten Realms CIA.
Then again that's not that different from adventurers...
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Thanks, Mac! I'll see if I can try and catch up.
As for the Harpers, they were supposed to be one of the few unambiguously Good forces in the Realms, but I think I remember some books trying to show they also had some moral greyness to them.
Time to set up a game where the adventures plunder all the riches of a kingdom aye
See, traditionally, this would just have been the Harpers. Bards, druids, and rangers are the three Harper classes (despite Elminster, Khelben, et al. making everyone think of mages) and protecting the wilderness from untrammelled explotation was a consistent feature of their mission statement.
I presume they felt they wanted to split out a nature-themed organisation and a rogueish-but-good organisation for AL purposes, to give them more clear and singular identities, but it's kinda off when you're aware of the history.
Yeah, although it's mostly in the adventures and AL rather than much explored in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide proper.
Eh, main setting's a bit of a reach. Official adventures mostly take place there (although Curse of Strahd and the Eberron AL line took us away from that), but 5e is quite explicit that there's no "default" setting beyond the D&D multiverse as a whole. The SCAG is the only real setting material for FR and, as the name suggests, only deals with one area in much detail. There's some generic setting material (Time & Calendar, the gods, the Weave, all stuff you'd know about since 1e), and about half-a-dozen pages on the rest of the Realms (mostly "yes, we promise we reset it all after the 4e nonsense"), but the bulk of the description just for the North and the Western Heartlands. If you want to know what's going on south of Nashkel, west of the Moonshaes, or in Anauroch or anywhere eastwards, you're mostly out of luck. (Although Chult, of all areas, got the Tomb of Annihilation adventure and accompanying AL season, so those provide some resources if you're interested in the peninsula).Is there still a campaign guide for the Realms now that they're the main setting? I'm curious about the current status of some of my old favourite realms and gods.
I'm not sure even Greenwood himself has been terribly consistent with the Harpers' characterisation, never mind all the other authors of the Realms. Certainly toward the end of 2e, there was a question hanging in the air in-universe as to whether the Harpers were doing honest work, partly prompting Khelben's breakaway with the assistance, or at least willingness to stand aside, of other senior good Harpers.
I think it's best to think of them as trying to be good - they don't seek reward, profit, fame, or any other selfish motive like that; nor do they promote torture, cruelty, or savagery - and noting that they assume larger states inevitably fall to tyranny (and do far worse damage than smaller ones in the process). While evil states, organisations, and leaders therefore need to be vigorously opposed, growing and vigorous good states tend to just see Harper attention and support withdrawn to elsewhere. At need, they might support local rights, empowerment, and decentralisation against the central authority. One of the notable cases was Azoun IV of Cormyr, where the Harpers judged him good and understanding enough to tell him that they were doing this, and both sides tried to avoid escalating matters too far in one direction or the other.
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Well, "reset". They brought back a lot of stuff, like Unther and Gilgeam (though, to be fair, it was the 1st-to-2nd-edition transition which did away with those), but they also kept Midnight!Mystra's death and the Spellplague, for instance.
The book is kinda disappointing. I know it's mostly focused on the Sword Coast, but even then it feels too sparse.
Don't forget chapter 3 of Storm King's Thunder. That's got you covered for the Savage Frontier, leaps and bounds better than the whole of SCAG.
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Wow, I had no idea. The impression I got of the Harper's is that they were for Wizards and maybe Clerics, based on being about information and fairness.
I looked up the factions and they actually explicitly link classes to each faction:
Emerald Enclave: Druids, Barbarians and Rangers
Harper's: Wizards and Bards
Lord's Alliance: Bards, Paladins, Fighters and Sorcerers (???)
Order of the Gauntlet: Paladins, Monks and Clerics
Zhentarim: Rogues and Warlocks
So yeah, the Enclave is THE druid/ranger faction in 5E and the Harpers on intelligence gathering. Feels like maybe they should have created a new faction for Wizards rather than putting them in the Harpers and booting out the nature classes.
Also I like how the Harpers make a big deal about using spies but only the Zhentarim name-drops Rogues. If you're a Rogue you're either a thief or an assassin apparently!
I mean, they were always an odd bird as far as morality goes. On the one hand, they're dedicated to the Good of the Realms; on the other hand, they're extremely secretive, fractious, and involved in more oddball plots than you can shake a stick at.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
So far I've run them as more grey Kiritsugu types. Good goals but willing to go to extreme ends if necessary.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Yeah, that's a fair representation.
One interesting thing about the Harper Bards (unless 5E changed that, too) is that they tend to be (if not mechanically, at least conceptually) holdovers from 1st Edition's version of the class, which used druidic magic and are just as much teachers and lorekeepers as wandering minstrels. I suspect that's why 3rd Edition had the Fochluchan Lyrist prestige class, and I also suspect that much like the Ranger class was changed to better fit Drizzt's mold, the Bard class became quite a bit more Roguish from 2nd Edition forward thanks to Storm Silverhand (who was actually an exception among Bards, since she went the Rogue -> Fighter -> Druid path instead of the usual Fighter -> Rogue -> Druid one).
The Harpers are either really shady, or really dumb:
Knowledge is power, after all.The Harpers has the following beliefs:
One can never have too much information or magical secrets.
Too much power leads to corruption, and the possible abuse of magic must be watched.
Everyone's favorite plane-hopping lich-god Vecna has begun to subvert the Harpers.
Discuss.
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Once and always and nevermore.
GGs, canaki, tang, five, pai, mcjon!
Only one group left...
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
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Now that sounds like a group I'd read the transcripts of.
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ARK OF HOPE GAMES ~> COMPLETE. Finally, all of them are done, after like eight months.
I hereby lift the ban on talking about its contents. You can post about it with anyone anywhere openly.
The final group was Seika, Bridge, and Nil. GG!
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
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