View Poll Results: What's your Favorite System?

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  • 1e

    2 2.78%
  • 2e

    2 2.78%
  • 3.5e

    10 13.89%
  • d20 (custom rules, etc)

    10 13.89%
  • PF

    15 20.83%
  • 4e

    6 8.33%
  • 5e

    27 37.50%
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Thread: Tabletop Games Thread

  1. #781
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Dark Sun part 1: The World of Athas

    The quickest way to get across the idea of Dark Sun is "D&D for the 90s". It's unsubtle, edgy, enjoys turning things up to 11, and is even more permeated by environmental concerns than D&D generally (see: the ever-present Druid oddity).

    It is also really fun, mostly because it did turn everything up to 11, but also because it just about hit the TSR D&D sweet spot of "hey, we've learnt a few things about making a game now", while coming before the worst of the frantic times, when they were in deep financial trouble and just ended up spamming out low-quality untested books. (Though, IMO, most of the DS supplements do fall in that period and are best avoided. For example, Dragon Kings suffers from turning everything up to twelve, while the updated box set includes a lot of crazy weird/dumb lore that takes away from the stark lethality of the setting which is its main point).


    Your setting is:
    Dark Sun, Athas, desert planet. The blood-red sun rises over vast tracts of sand and rock, scorching the land below until it heats to temperatures reaching nearly a hundred and fifty degrees Fahrenheit (over sixty Celsius); at night, the thin atmosphere and minimal humidity mean heat dissipates incredibly rapidly, often dropping well below freezing. At any time, brutal winds are scouring the wastes, and month-long sandstorms strip flesh from bone. Metal-poor and water-poor, life is hard, primitive, and short.

    The major centres of civilisation (such as it is) are the cities of the immortal sorcerer-kings, each gathered around one of few known large oases. While these quasi-divine despots rule with an iron fist through their templar underlings, and the walls are constructed as much to keep the people in as enemies out, they still at least have semi-reliable water and harvests. Between the provision of food scraps and the gladiatorial contests put on by passels of the sorcerer-kings' innumerable slaves, these states embody the uneasy contentment bought by bread and circuses.

    Outside the cities are mostly small nomadic tribes - traders, herders, and raiders. Elves are the most notable itinerants, but packs of the hive-minded Thri-keen mantis warriors are also a frequent sight. A smaller oasis may host a temporary village made from settlers who want to make lives for themselves neither dependent on the sorcerer-kings nor the vagaries of wandering life, but these are usually swept away by Athas' brutal environment or jealous pillagers.

    Magic on Athas is relatively rare, and quite different from that of other planes. For the clerics and druids, no gods will touch Athas with the divine equivalent of a ten-foot-pole. Clerics worship and draw energy from the elements themselves, while druids maintain the futile hope of saving Athas' dying life-force. The templars draw directly on the magic of their sorcerer-king deities for power. Mages conduct their art only in secrecy, hated for their legendary part in the ruination of Athas, and choose either to continue that ruination for quick power, or to progress agonisingly slowly in order not to upset the balance of life.

    Virtually all sapients on Athas, however, are psychically talented. Everyone has at least one useful trick which could range from reading auras to synaesthesia to brief time travel to disintegrating people at a glance (if you get your roll right). Others specialise in this use of disciplined, internal energy - quite apart from the dying life-force of Athas - and can do all those things mentioned above and more.

    While the sorcerer-kings plot away, the Great Dragon - the only known member of the species on Athas - roams the wastes, feared even by the great cities. Its magical and mental powers are beyond all mortal measure; where other mages draw life from the earth and plants, the Dragon can tear it from every living being. To send an army against it is to have a third of them turned to ash as their vital force is sucked away, another third destroyed by the spells using that vital force, and the last third slaughtered by raking talons and scouring breath.

    This is your world: where obsidian, bone, and wood are the materials of all but the most expensive weapons, and these primitive armaments shiver themselves to pieces if used too roughly. Where dehydration is a fact of life. Where the slowly-spreading sands are swallowing life itself piece-by-piece - and will drown you in particular. This is Athas.
    Last edited by Seika; September 25th, 2015 at 07:48 AM.
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  2. #782
    Quote Originally Posted by black1blade View Post
    I've finally realised that I hate playing high fantasy. Low levels in low fantasy are the best.
    Tried out World of Darkness?
    Aus Feuer ward der Geist geschaffen,
    drum schenkt mir süßes Feuer ein!
    Die Lust der Lieder und der Waffen,
    die Lust der Liebe schenkt mir ein,
    der Trauben süßes Sonnenblut,
    das Wunder glaubt und Wunder thut!

  3. #783
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors black1blade's Avatar
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    I'll look into it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I also would prefer a game that isn't about becoming steadily more powerful.

  4. #784
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiga View Post
    Oh no, I still made the party roleplay around the Fighter offending Agatha, but it was because they remembered they had the comb or whatever that they succeeded.

    I guess the problem is that I'm just following the starter set and that basically instructs every enemy to melee them and doesn't give me the creature's HP range, just the flat value.

    I've got three players at the moment. The fights have had a bit of variety right now, but it seems to lead toward them being easy (or just long, with lots of missing). There are just rare moments where the party gets completely screwed over, and it's usually against weaker enemies - last night he was carrying the team, until he suddenly got ambushed by three goblins who immediately brought him to zero health. Pretty funny.

    re: Well, I realize with the Owlbear the situation wouldn't have been much different if the Owlbear just attacked the Wizard. If it succeeded on the attack roll, it'd be the same as the Wizard failing its Dexterity roll, and vice-versa. The Owlbear is meant to attack whatever is in its way, and otherwise try to escape. So I guess it wasn't a big deal.
    It actually does provide the monster's hit point range in the Starter Set too. Here, look:



    Look at HP.

    > HP: 27 (5d8 + 5)

    It's just like how the PCs have hit die to determine their hit points. The monster has 5d8 + bonus. So you're given an average value of 27 but it could just as easily be 30 or 35 or 40.

    From the way you're talking about the combats it sounds like you might also be accidentally underutilizing the monster's abilities in combat. Which is fine, I did (and still do) the same thing as I'm learning. During the first fight, the PCs in my game handled the goblins fine but it was only after the session that I looked back and realized I didn't use the Goblins to their full potential. They have a high bonus to Stealth, and get a free Disengage or Hide, which means they could have spent every turn hiding in the trees and ambushing the party Jurassic Park style. Instead I just had them leap out of the bushes and charge face first into the Fighters. And then there was another fight where the PCs ran into a wizard who managed to kill off one of the PCs, but got swarmed to death later. After the session I looked at his spell list and realized I'd forgotten he had Misty Step (a teleportation spell) in the heat of the moment, that could've let him just avoid getting surrounded easily. Things like that, because I was so busy juggling the players' questions and the rules and the monster stats and the NPCs and all the lore that it was easy to overlook a lot of things.

    But it was fine because the players were just learning too and made a lot of their own mistakes.

    Also regarding stale instructions in combat, don't feel shackled to the scenario. It's just there to give you a foundation to work with. When I was dealing with the banshee scenario, instead of having the PCs just waltz up to some dilapidated shack or whatever in the middle of nowhere, I had them slowly realize they were getting closer because the ground had become withered and lifeless, there were spectral mists and fog obscuring the area, the weather had become unnaturally cold, and the banshee herself was in a black obelisk that they had to climb. As they got closer, they passed dead adventurers who looked frostbitten, and who had frozen black ooze streaming out of their eyes, mouth, ears, and nose. By the time they actually got to the banshee they were terrified. Even though there was a mountain of treasure there next to her, they carefully placed the treasure she wanted amongst the pile without being tempted to take any, and left after striking a deal with her.

    My favorite part was when the banshee said something, and one of the players reflexively piped up with "that's not true!" and before I'd even finished turning to look at him (as the banshee) he was taking it back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Incidentally it's a lot harder to remember stuff like various NPC spell loadouts or lore when it's an adventure module because it's all trivia you have to memorize and cross reference. When you make it yourself you remember all of it easily. (Or at least I do.)
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  5. #785
    Lord of Tentacles Janx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by black1blade View Post
    I'll look into it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I also would prefer a game that isn't about becoming steadily more powerful.
    I think World of Darkness can work like that.

    It's kind of an odd request, as most system's rely on some degree of advancement.

  6. #786
    Crossing Arcadia Saiga's Avatar
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    > HP: 27 (5d8 + 5)

    It's just like how the PCs have hit die to determine their hit points. The monster has 5d8 + bonus. So you're given an average value of 27 but it could just as easily be 30 or 35 or 40.
    Ohhh that's what that was. From what Seika said, I thought the monster manual was meant to give a range you just pick from. I had been ignoring those completely!

    From the way you're talking about the combats it sounds like you might also be accidentally underutilizing the monster's abilities in combat. Which is fine, I did (and still do) the same thing as I'm learning. During the first fight, the PCs in my game handled the goblins fine but it was only after the session that I looked back and realized I didn't use the Goblins to their full potential. They have a high bonus to Stealth, and get a free Disengage or Hide, which means they could have spent every turn hiding in the trees and ambushing the party Jurassic Park style. Instead I just had them leap out of the bushes and charge face first into the Fighters. And then there was another fight where the PCs ran into a wizard who managed to kill off one of the PCs, but got swarmed to death later. After the session I looked at his spell list and realized I'd forgotten he had Misty Step (a teleportation spell) in the heat of the moment, that could've let him just avoid getting surrounded easily. Things like that, because I was so busy juggling the players' questions and the rules and the monster stats and the NPCs and all the lore that it was easy to overlook a lot of things.
    This is also true. Especially the goblins, I dismissed those abilities early on but after watching a Youtube playthrough I realized they're actually quite potent. In the right conditions the ability to hide every turn can have the Goblins wreck the players.

    On the other hand the Goblins have been wrecking the players through pure RNG so far. It's very humiliating.

    And I just remembered another problem I was having with the whole Sneak Attack thing - the players called bullshit on abilities like Multi Attack and Martial Advantage on enemy NPC's despite them being extremely similar to Sneak Attack. They said it was too powerful, and surely couldn't work every turn. So no wonder they're out damaging the monsters, they had me hold back the enemies.

    Also regarding stale instructions in combat, don't feel shackled to the scenario. It's just there to give you a foundation to work with. When I was dealing with the banshee scenario, instead of having the PCs just waltz up to some dilapidated shack or whatever in the middle of nowhere, I had them slowly realize they were getting closer because the ground had become withered and lifeless, there were spectral mists and fog obscuring the area, the weather had become unnaturally cold, and the banshee herself was in a black obelisk that they had to climb. As they got closer, they passed dead adventurers who looked frostbitten, and who had frozen black ooze streaming out of their eyes, mouth, ears, and nose. By the time they actually got to the banshee they were terrified. Even though there was a mountain of treasure there next to her, they carefully placed the treasure she wanted amongst the pile without being tempted to take any, and left after striking a deal with her.

    My favorite part was when the banshee said something, and one of the players reflexively piped up with "that's not true!" and before I'd even finished turning to look at him (as the banshee) he was taking it back.
    I did something similar, it helps that the pre-made dialogue to read out for that area plays up the spookiness a bit. Our wizard player was really scared to face the Banshee, as he was unaware the Banshee wouldn't attack him. So the Rogue and him believed - since they were asked to bargain with the Banshee - that she was perfectly capable of killing them if they failed.

    Incidentally it's a lot harder to remember stuff like various NPC spell loadouts or lore when it's an adventure module because it's all trivia you have to memorize and cross reference. When you make it yourself you remember all of it easily. (Or at least I do.)
    I hope that's true for me as well. Although I don't think I'm going to DM the next one, because the others want to give me a shot at being a PC.

  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by black1blade View Post
    I'll look into it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I also would prefer a game that isn't about becoming steadily more powerful.
    WoD isn't about that.
    Or atleast it isn't in most cases.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Janx View Post
    It's kind of an odd request, as most system's rely on some degree of advancement.
    Mummy the Curse has an interesting concept there.
    You start at the absolute apex of your power but with next to no memories and the longer you "stay awake" the weaker you become but the more you remember.
    Though it needs an experienced Storyteller to work well
    Aus Feuer ward der Geist geschaffen,
    drum schenkt mir süßes Feuer ein!
    Die Lust der Lieder und der Waffen,
    die Lust der Liebe schenkt mir ein,
    der Trauben süßes Sonnenblut,
    das Wunder glaubt und Wunder thut!

  8. #788
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors black1blade's Avatar
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    Well a slow gradient of progression is what I like. Maybe level 1-5 in 1st ed D&D.

  9. #789
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    I was actually going to recommend games similar to 1E to you lol

    Look into OSR (old school renaissance) style games. There's a lot of new games published but by 1E fans who tried to recreate the experience.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Two off the top of my head: Lamentations of the Flame Princess and Dungeon Crawl Classics.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Dungeon Crawl Classics is hilarious. You don't even start with a level 1 character. You start with a roster of 3 level 0 characters, and whoever actually survives the dungeon is the one that makes it to level 1.
    Last edited by mAc Chaos; September 22nd, 2015 at 09:04 AM.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  10. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by black1blade View Post
    Well a slow gradient of progression is what I like. Maybe level 1-5 in 1st ed D&D.
    WoD is quite different from D&D.
    You should decide whether to read into oWoD or nWoD first.
    Aus Feuer ward der Geist geschaffen,
    drum schenkt mir süßes Feuer ein!
    Die Lust der Lieder und der Waffen,
    die Lust der Liebe schenkt mir ein,
    der Trauben süßes Sonnenblut,
    das Wunder glaubt und Wunder thut!

  11. #791
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    Also how unironic 80's le snark edgy it is

  12. #792
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    almost spit my drink

    - - - Updated - - -

    whats the disclaimer for the storyteller system
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  13. #793
    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    almost spit my drink

    - - - Updated - - -

    whats the disclaimer for the storyteller system
    You need between some and many houserules or the game is going to get dragged down

    - - - Updated - - -

    Depending on what you're playing
    Aus Feuer ward der Geist geschaffen,
    drum schenkt mir süßes Feuer ein!
    Die Lust der Lieder und der Waffen,
    die Lust der Liebe schenkt mir ein,
    der Trauben süßes Sonnenblut,
    das Wunder glaubt und Wunder thut!

  14. #794
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors black1blade's Avatar
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    My fav game system is the OSR game, BFRPG (basic fantasy RPG). All the books are free and they only cost money to be printed by amazon. It does have it's limitations but only if the players are doing things that are more expected from a higher fantasy campaign or doing things early (became bored with the campaign I was running because really annoying, pushy player made their own base and eventually military organisation at level 5 instead of level 9. I was really annoyed because we hadn't actually done that much proper adventuring and now they are too invested to bother doing any fun adventuring).

    I did actually have fun with the 5th ed game I was playing in today. Probably because we actually had an area that was detailed in the module with actual descriptions. Also I've pushed to the back of my mind the fact that we where allowed to summon a demon (with no summoning skills), kill it, take it's stuff, sell it and sell everything in water deep. The paladin brought a fucking holy avenger, just wtf!!!!

  15. #795
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Dark Sun Part 2: Character Races

    Humans - the generic, mostly dominant race, per usual D&D. You probably have a minor mutation or two, because the world has been fantasy-nuked into oblivion. They're never useful though. Webbed feet, for example, in the desert world.

    Halflings - noble savages, who live in peace and harmony with the land, settle all their disputes amicably, never lie to each other, are curious and open-minded about the customs of others, and are wise, beautiful, and philosophical. Also, they think most of the other sapient races are delicious, and will hunt and eat them.

    Mul - half-humans, half-dwarves, and taller than either. Mostly born and bred in slavery, for their toughness and strength: a typical mul is capable of hard labour for over thirty-six hours at a stretch, or of dozens of gladiatorial bouts; alternatively, might walk for weeks at a time without sleep. Like their name-sake, all sterile. Understandably somewhat sullen.

    Dwarves - hyper-obsessives with a physiological compulsion to achieve whatever long-term goal they've focused on. Failing to do so before death means resurrection as a particularly miserable banshee.

    Thri-keen - giant, psychic, four-armed mantises, who are for some reason really good at dodging arrows like someone out of Jet Li's Hero. Often armed with Xena chakrams. Are confused by the other races' need to sleep, and view it as lazy, needless lying-around. While not active hunters of other sapients, in times of desperation, elves are apparently really tasty.

    Half-Giant - no questions asked, you are twelve feet of muscle and stomping. Also no questions asked about getting double HP along with +2 to Strength and Constitution, so you can be the meat-tankiest PC ever. Also, pick your alignment every morning when you wake up. Ehh, I don't think I got enough sleep, so I'll be committed to Evil today.

    Half-Elves - mummy never loved you, especially if she was an elf. As a result, you have a massive independence complex about everything.

    Elves - in a reversal of D&D norms, larger than humans, topping out at ~seven and half feet. Gather into incredibly insular tribes, and therefore end up with the Athasian version of a Paladin's code of conduct: the compulsive need to test outsiders until they've proven themselves. Much like a zealous Paladin's rigid adherence to their code, other PCs are likely to take a dim view of you going too hard on this. (Ironically, the rest of Athas consider elves hideously untrustworthy because of their xenophobia and live-in-the-moment flightiness). Have a fetish for running as a method of travel, and refuse to ride anything, but still get standard elven Constitution penalties because of poor design.
    Last edited by Seika; September 23rd, 2015 at 06:56 AM. Reason: I can't count to two. Help.
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  16. #796
    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    Halflings - noble savages, who live in peace and harmony with the land, settle all their disputes amicably, never lie to each other, are curious and open-minded about the customs of others, and are wise, beautiful, and philosophical. Also, they think most of the other sapient races are delicious, and will hunt and eat them.
    christ I did not see that plot twist coming (I'm gonna guess they're actually none of those things listed before)

    7 feet Elves sounds pretty interesting too

  17. #797
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lace View Post
    (I'm gonna guess they're actually none of those things listed before)
    No, that's a pretty literal transcription of their character race description. I was going back through the campaign setting box for this, because it's been a long time since I did Dark Sun, and went," ... One of the most famous things about Dark Sun is the Halflings eating everyone. Where did that even go amid all this native tribes fetishisation?"

    It basically never turns up in the 'mechanics' book; they leave you to discover it in the lore book. I guess they didn't want to make players feel they should be hungrily eyeing up their fellow PCs for dinner whenever rations are tight (often), which is fair enough. On the other hand, it's got to make for the most hilarious surprise if you get a player who didn't read the lore book, made a Halfling, and then the DM throws this at them. (Halfling villages have a tendency to welcome other Halflings by throwing a feast for them: if they arrive with non-Halflings, well, there's the main course. They are, of course, very sympathetic to any of their fellows who have been brainwashed by "big people" into thinking that this is a problem).

    Since I ran through the Planar Sphere in Baldur's Gate II yesterday, the Halflings are very much in my mind: they give you a tribe of the 'cannibal children' to fight through, whose territory is entirely surrounded in a fence of bones. It's cool.
    Last edited by Seika; September 23rd, 2015 at 06:32 AM.
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  18. #798
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Thedoctor's Avatar
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    Wait so the elves are a highly physical race that has constitution penalties?

    What were they thinking?





  19. #799
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Ja, it's dumb.

    Worse, everything's exaggerated in Dark Sun. Whereas a standard 2e Elf gets -1 CON and +1 DEX, a DS Elf gets -2 CON and +2 DEX. It's slightly compensated for by the fact that DS characters use a way more generous stat-rolling method than was (theoretically, at any rate) standard, but it's still very silly.

    DS characters are supposed to roll 4d4 +4 in order for stats, whereas 2e's default method was 3d6 in order. (I mention that it was 'theoretically' standard, because you had to be pretty hardcore to just accept what that gave you).
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  20. #800
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Siriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lace View Post
    7 feet Elves sounds pretty interesting too
    Yeah I hear Tolkien was pretty influential.
    Ragnarok, come day of wrath
    That fallen souls might bear our plea.
    To hasten the Divine's return.
    O piteous Wanderer.

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