Tabletop Games Thread

[mAc Chaos]

> worshipping a belief

Paladins are like that too in 5e but I don't really like that. Basically instead of getting your powers from a diety, a Paladin believes so hard in something it just WILLS it into power. Kind of like how gods in the first place only manifest from enough people believing in them, except in this case it's one person believing really hard. So it still fits. But eh.

But yeah you're right, I forgot half the time I make a game I just tell people to make a character and worry about the rest later. The one saving grace is it's in established D&D settings in the case of my offline games so if they wanted to find some gods to worship they could just look it up.

[Saiga]

I actually like that for Paladins, it explains Charisma as a casting stat and separates them more from Clerics. I'm used to the Cleric/Priest class being a squishy non-melee caster, DND really blurs the line for me by allowing them to be strong melee characters.

I didn't think about it, but you do raise a good point about non-religious classes still having gods to worship. The Lost Mines of Phandelver has a Wizard Acolye that worships Ohgma, though.

My group are all knew players so I don't think they've really thought of the gods. It doesn't seem in character for my Barbarian to take note of any, and my future character concepts would probably not worship any gods either. My next Warlock (Fighter 1/Warlock X) may have worshipped some Gods before he became a Warlock, but his backstory is specifically falling in battle and making a pact with whatever being would offer him aid, resenting the gods from that point for not answering his pleas.

Some other classes, like Druids or Monks don't seem like they'd worship what most players consider "gods".

[Seika]

There was one RP scenario suggested in the Complete Paladin's Handbook which depended on philosphy-worship that I adored. And probably tried to work into too many Paladin games when I was younger. Anyway.

Basically, because you were Lawful Good incarnate, if you found your local church or government (whom you'd sworn to obey in all things and to whom you'd dedicated a tenth of your income) had started turning evil or neutral, you could throw an enormous hissy fit. You would tear off all their symbols, burn anything they'd given to you, and renounce them and the oath you'd sworn to them. But, being LG incarnate, not having something before which to demonstrate your palpable humility and obedience was a complete no-no. So you could swear to follow the original moral principles of the church before it went bad, and take that as your philosophy. Ultimate hipster-ism.

Especially fun example I played out: The local church of an Lawful Neutral god of duty, order, &c. has been historically a merciful and temperate order. They shade toward Lawful Good - perfectly acceptable, worshippers can be within a step of their god. The Paladin is brought up within their ranks, absorbs their interpretations of the teachings, and becomes a devout and faithful warrior for the church. Paladin goes off, has adventures, and comes back a dozen levels later to find that (in response to all the troubles bedevilling the land which the Paladin has been trying to smite), the church has had a fundamentalist turn. They start interpreting the passages of their holy text more literally, align themselves more exactly with their god, and have generally gone LN. Paladin rejects god and church in one fell swoop, and dedicates themselves to the principles they remember and love, deeming them more just and right than any deity's say-so. They start giving their tithes to the local university-cum-hospital instead.

I also recalling running a priest who was an ancestor-worshipper. His ancestors had no power to give him whatsoever, but the ideal of ancestor veneration was a wide-spread tenet in his culture. Resultantly, he could draw power from that faith and work magic. That was a cool and fun one.

[Janx]

I was thinking, isn't it kind of strange that most PCs don't have a god they worship in their backstories. It's always only Clerics and Paladins. But in the D&D setting the gods are everywhere and affect everyday life, so it's not like real life. It's more like applying for college.

I guess the flip side of 'its not like real life' though, is that in a world where gods are everwhere and affect everyday life...why focus on one god?

In real life due to the ambiguity and questionability of the divine, there are distinctly separate religions, while the D&D universe has a bunch of deity's who very clearly co-exist. Unless one is being a divine class, why should someone devote themselves to a particular deity?

I mean, I think a great example of this is Elderscrolls, which despite having like 10 different versions of more or less the same pantheon, most people pay hommage to multiple deities, with only priests and particularly devout focusing on individual ones. Most deities in fantasy settings similarly focus on particular spheres, so unless you're devoting your life to particular aspect of life, why aren't you paying respect to whatever deity makes sense for the action you are doing.

[Seika]

The average person worships different gods in different contexts. Most vocations have a patron deity: farmers make offerings to Chauntea for the prosperity of their crops, clerks sharpen their quills with a prayer to Deneir, while pious merchants remember to set coins aside for Waukeen at the end of the day. Most people worship a deity associated with their livelihood, family, or home, while others feel called to a particular god for a variety of reasons. Individuals often carry or wear a small token of their favored deity: a pendant or a pin in the image of the god's holy symbol, or some other personal keepsake.

In addition, people regularly venerate gods based on their needs and circumstances: a farmer whose favored deity is Chauntea would pray to Amaunator for a few clear, sunny days, and a Waterdhavian noble who habitually worships Denier would give thanks to Sune after a successful coming-out party for her son. Even priests of particular gods acknowledge the roles that other deities play in the world and in their lives.

In general, worshipers view their relationships with the gods as practical and reciprocal: they pray and make offerings because that is how one invites the blessings of the gods and turns away their wrath. These prayers and other acts of devotion are generally performed quietly at the shrine in one's household or community, or occasionally in a temple dedicated to one's deity, when a worshiper feels the need to "come knocking upon a god's door" to ask for attention.

Yeesh, I know you lot don't like doubling your consonants, but 'worshipers' is just so wrong. What's next, 'droped'?

[Saiga]

HO LY SHIT

just came from from the most insane rollercoaster of a session, finishing that evil campaign. It involved so much keikaku

I took a short rest with Telnor and Twonor, while the focus switched to the second party again. The Warlock from the last session had been handled over to the housemate of Garcock's player, who was now playing the Wizard, Line. Can't remember the Warlock's name so I'll call him Locky. Their group of three continued on until they found a room that contained some jewelry and the deck of many things. Locky, being run by someone completely new to D&D, declared their intention to look through the deck. Our DM specified that they needed to announce how many cards they wanted to take, they chose five. Immediately they drew a card that gave them a +2 to any stat, they chose Charisma with the DM's advice. Then they decided to draw the rest of the cards later. Line then decided to take a card, and received a fourth-level fighter as a follower. Thomas pocketed the deck.

At this point, our group finished our rest and caught up to the party. Telnor and I had already discussed how to explain our missing party member, but when Line greeted us 'she' noted that we must be the three members Elnir (the one who gave the job to all six of us) said would be following. Telnor and I looked at Twonor.

"Yes. Yes we are"
"Why is he naked?"
"Hey I offered him clothes when I met him and he didn't take them" (which was actually true)

With that, the group proceeded to the room of the Moonlit King (actually the roof of the castle) who immediately appeared and accused us of killing his people. We admitted that we did, but they attacked us, and upon noticing the horn tied to his waste I offered to trade for it. We did a group huddle, I mentioned giving up some of the loot we found and Twonor, but Telnor wasn't having that. On overhearing the offer of a life, the Moonlit King seemed REALLY interested so I kept pushing for that. Line said she'd offer her follower's life if Locky would return the staff they fought over last session. Locky agreed, having no idea what the staff was worth, and we offered the follower (Bogan) as part of our offering.

The Moonlit King then summoned a Lunar Devil, said that the offer would be taken, and ignored all of my "For the Horn, right? In exchange for the Horn? You're giving us the Horn? You'll give us the Horn when we hand over the offering?" comments. So Bogan got killed, a fight broke out, both Warlocks wasted their Mystic Arcanums against the Moonlit King's Legendary Resistance/successful saves. :3

The Moonlit King was crazy tough though. Able to teleport or attack with his Legendary actions, do a massive AOE that damaged the entire party (who had spread out at this stage) and reduce our strength, hit hard in melee and summon four Shadow Demons with every lair action. The Lunar Devil also had greater invisibility and was chewing up our casters.

There were Flame Strikes, Fireballs, Fingers of Death, Smites and eventually the Moonlit King went down to the fourth Finger of Death cast on him. He was raised under the control of Telnor as a zombie, at which point it came to Thomas, the Artificer's turn. He took a shot at me and missed. Locky launched a wall of fire which would hit myself, Telnor and Twonor. Telnor counterspelled it. Line cast Chain Lightning on all of us, killing Twonor and leaving me in horrible condition. We then learned they had this planned all along, and I felt pretty dumb (Telnor and I ALSO had this plan, but the turn order screwed up hard). On my turn, out of Lay on Hands or healing spells, I was able to Channel Divinity to make one of them frightened of me and backed up with Telnor.

He then ran to his zombie, and used Dimension Door to take both of them (and the Horn) 500ft away from the Castle which hilariously led the other team to go "oh shit". I felt screwed over, but it was the only way he could get the horn and I thought it'd be worth dying as long as the others got killed (for failing the mission). It was a pure slapstick moment.

Thomas' turn. He pulled out a scroll of Reverse Gravity, and used it on the rest of us before riding their Polar Bear construct out of the castle. Only Locky made the save, and used their turn to run out of the castle at full dash. On Line's turn, she used the Staff of the Magi she obtained from Locky and Plane Shifted to Limbo, the safest plane her player knew about. On my turn, with no ability to descend or break my fall, I asked the DM what the CLOSEST thing I could potentially grab onto was. There was a 60ft tree within my range. I was 100ft above the ground. All I could do was cast Aura of Vitality on use heal myself for 2d6 each turn while fashioning a lasso with my rope. Eventually, as everyone was just straight up running, I healed myself over 10 turns and successfully used my lassoo on the tree to swing down once Reverse Gravity wore off, surviving the fall on nearly full health (from being nearly dead to begin with).

I took ten minutes to Find Steed, and raced at a breakneck pace back to the city. At this point, the DM had each of us message our plans to him so he could see how things would unfold.

My plan: ride directly to the city, keeping my eye out for Telnor or anyone carrying the horn, as I'd already seen his ability to instantly disguise himself as other people. If I got to the city without that, I would go directly to Elnir's castle, leave my horse outside to watch for anyone who approaches, and hid just outside Elnir's office so I could catch anyone coming to turn in the horn. Unfortunately, Telnor was hiding from me, and I failed my Perception check to notice him as I returned to the city. I passed Thomas, and told him that we must work together or we will all die if Telnor returns the Horn by himself. Thomas replied it was an alliance of need, I agreed and continued forth, outpacing him.

Line's plan was to Plane Shift back to the city gates, and start stopping people who were entering and questioning them, trying to find Telnor. Eventually, I reached the gates, and told him to convene with me at the barracks as I knew where Telnor's quarters were. He decided to stay at the gate, and I continued forth. In the city, I suddenly had an idea, and asked the DM if I could try to find a place to purchase a Potion of Sending or, as a lesser priority, a Bag of Holding (as I had a Portable Hole and could use it as a plan B nuke). I managed to get the Potion and go to Elnir's. In the time it took me to do this, Locky's plan started.

Locky decided to use Scrying to find Telnor, who just barely failed his save. Locky saw the clearing Telnor was in, who had become invisible, and realized they were not moving (cue: "Argh fuck!" from me)

Locky immediately travelled there, but Telnor had long gone due to the time it took. At this point, it had been around an hour since Locky chose the number of cards they would draw from the deck of many things. The remaining 4 cards were drawn immediately and appeared before him: -3 to intelligence and draw an extra card, a strange man appeared who would answer one question asked within the next year truthfully, -2 to all saves, level up, wish.

And the Wish card allowed him to cast it twice. So he used the first Wish to cast Greater Invisibility on himself, the second to summon Telnor to him, who was also no longer invisible. Telnor appeared in front of him, and immediately Dimension Door'd away again. He'd taken a rest and recovered his spell slots. Because they were in a clearing, he was still within sight of Locky - daylight had just broken. He used his staff of insects to turn 10 centipedes into giant centipedes and sent them to delay the pursuing Locky.

At this point, I had finished getting my potion and getting into position. I drank a third of the potion, allowing me to use Sending once, sending a 25 word message at Telnor:

Me: Get to Elnir. Enemies at front gate. If you can't, I have horse. How far are you, your appearance, direction. 2 messages left for me.
Telnor: If you can get me the staff of the magi and the amulet of evil, we will turn this in together (so now I learned his secret items)
Me (second drink): Only have amulet, will help once we turn in horn. Almost out of time, do you need extraction? I can find wizard after this.
Telnor: I'll meet you at front gate, be alone

At which point I'm like FUUUUUUCK that's where the Line is, this is going to get dicey. So I drink the last part of the potion, and send a message to the Line:

Get to the Barracks immediately. We are nearly out of time. I have messaged the Warlock with the horn and he will be meeting me.

I then messaged the DM telling him I was going to the front gate, but taking a longer route to make sure I wouldn't cross Line if she was heading to the barracks.

At that point, Thomas made it to the gate. Line remembered the Reverse Gravity, thought "fuck it" and launched a Fireball at him. In the ensuing fight, Line was killed (cue: "Argh fuck!" from me). Thomas looted the corpse, obtaining the Staff of the Magi. He now had two secret items. I arrived at the front gate, and saw only Thomas' bear. No Thomas, no Line.

Telnor arrived, and saw me and the bear (not near each other, but still at the gate). Thinking I betrayed him, he Dimension Door'd again inside the city ("Argh fuck!")

I rushed back to Elnir's place, and shouted out that if Thomas is there, we need to cut off Telnor before he reaches Elnir. I arrived at Elnir's place, only to see him leaving. I wanted to follow, but decided against being stealthy and instead openly approached Elnir, explaining that I was going to go meet up with Telnor who had the horn. It was at this point I found out what Telnor's plan was: he had taken a rest in the clearing, and immediately used the recovered spell slot to cast Dream, targetting Elnir, and explained that he had the Horn and needed a safe place to hand it to him, telling him a location where it could be handed over.

Hearing my explanation, Elnir said that only one of us could turn it in, but I replied I had items that could allow Telnor and I to reach an agreement. Elnir wanted to see what I had found, and I was torn. I had both the Talisman of Ultimate Evil from the castle, and a +3 Rod of the Pact Keeper I obtained in the magic item drafting. I had been referring to both items that Telnor would want, and decided to present the Rod instead of the Amulet. Elnir took it and stashed it, and I was very glad in my choice. I continued with Elnir, who alerted me that we were being followed by another applicant. Since he used male pronouns, I suspected Thomas (because of the bear earlier), knowing it was possibly Locky as well who I had not yet seen. Eventually, Locky found us, and I realized we were being tailed by Thomas. At this point, Elnir questioned both of us if we'd even eliminated any other applicants. I was once again torn: lie, say that I eliminated Garcock, or be honest and say Telnor and I did it together? I was honest, and Elnir talked down at me for requiring help to do so. Locky claimed that Line was dead, and that he killed her - he'd really found the body outside when he arrived.

I asked Locky if that meant he had the Staff of the Magi, Locky said it was not on him but he knew who had it. From that, I surmised that Thomas actually killed Line and took it. We all arrived at the safehouse, Elnir announced our presence, and Telnor said he should have been alone. I announced that both items he was seeking were now here. Elnir opened the door, finding the room filled with 16 Berserkers summoned by the Horn, Telnor in the farthest corner. Elnir was really displeased that Telnor had used the horn, but Telnor claimed that Elnir didn't specify not to use it.

Elnir demanded the Horn be handed over, and Telnor did so. Elnir turned to Locky, and mentioned that Locky lied before about who killed Line (SOOO glad I was honest). He told him to start running, as it would make the hunt more enjoyable. Locky booked it. At this point, he also said that Thomas should just reveal himself, and Thomas joined us. Then he rattled off our applicant reducing counts: Telnor and Anton, 1 together. Thomas... 11. At this point, he told Thomas to enter the room and "do it". Thomas entered, presenting the Deck of Many Things and the Staff of the Magi.

Thomas turned over the deck and let them all scatter to the ground, effectively drawing all of them. The first draw... turned him Lawful Good. The DM was completely taken off-guard by this change. The second draw... allowed him to undo the action that caused him to drop the deck, as he no longer wanted to do that. With that reset, he instead broke the Staff of the Magi over his knee, causing its energy to explode outwards. All the Berserkers, and my horse, were vaporized instantly. I failed my save and was knocked unconscious, Telnor succeeded and barely stayed awake. Elnir ran away from the explosion, with the Horn, and Thomas had been teleported to a random plane by breaking the staff. Unfortunately, that was the Nine Hells.

Thanks to my Periapt of Wound Closure, the item I passed up a +1 Weapon for in the draft, the item that let that same weapon be used by Garcock against me and nearly kill me, the same weapon I lacked when fighting the trees that were immune to non-magical damage, FINALLY paid off, as it brought me to 1 hitpoint from being unconscious and woke me up. I saw the Deck of Many Things on the ground, and took it. To Telnor, we talked things over and reasoned that if deals were the ONLY thing sacred in this Lawful Evil kingdom, Elnir is probably trying to start a coup if he's willing to break one so blatantly. We reported this to a dealbroker in the city, who informed us that Sylas (apparently, the Lich in charge of the city) would take care of the issue. We then wondered if we should leave somewhere while this all blowed over, and the dealbroker mentioned he would have another job for us: travel to Brightstone, the city hub on the continent our main campaign, and start making preparations for our takeover of the entire city.

Telnor was all for that, I was torn. I had acquired both of my secret items, which I needed to complete that objective, and I asked if I could take care of anything before we departed. Unfortunately, the dealbroker wanted us to leave immediately. I explained that it was in order to uphold a deal - deals are sacred. The dealbroker wanted to know which deal I was fulfilling, and I explained it. At that point, I learned where my deal had actually come from: Sylas himself. The dealbroker mentioned that he would contact Sylas to come and collect the items, and the portal to Brightstone would of course be delayed for him. Twenty minutes later, Sylas appeared and I presented my items. Sylas noted that I would receive a promotion for this, along with a higher responsibility. Conversing with me, he found out that I was also offered the Brightstone job, and told me I earned the right to choose. I wondered if this was a trick question. Weighing my options, I told him: If I could accept this responsibility but still travel to Brightstone on this mission as part of my new role, I would choose that. However, the promotion and its duties are my priority.

Sylas reveals the items procured were for use in the Brightstone mission, and that he would return them to me so that I could go there and lead. He also pulled out the Rod of the Pact Keeper that Elnir took from me, and handed it to Telnor.

Which made me realize what he'd been doing in the twenty minutes I was waiting on him to arrive. Damn, Sylas, you scary.

And with that, Telnor and Anton traveled away from the backstabby continent and to Brightstone, ready to start a new quest. It was incredible, and I am so glad I was able to fulfill my secret objective when everyone had overlapping items to obtain. Really didn't think that was going to be possible - hell, I didn't even think I'd get out alive once I was hit with the Reverse Gravity through to my plans constantly running into speedbumps. I feel like I was least equipped for complex plans out of everyone (no fancy spells for it) but I gave it my all. Also I probably survived as long as I did just by being honest. What a great message to come out of an evil campaign.

edit: holy shit that ended up so long I'm sorry

[Lace]

Nice.

[Saiga]

d-did you read all that

[Lace]

Y-Yeah, although I have no clue what you were talking about most of the time because I don't know of the previous sessions

[GhostDIGIT]

I'm surprised you managed to survive that giant fall, Saiga.

[Saiga]

Y-Yeah, although I have no clue what you were talking about most of the time because I don't know of the previous sessions

Oh, there was only one other session posted a couple of pages back. I probably didn't recount it as well as i could have

Just goid to know that wasnt too much of a wall of text

@ghost as am I. Seriously thought that was it for me

[Arashi_Leonhart]

RE: subject of gods

It occurs to me there was one time I wanted to play a NE wizard. I wanted his professed deity to be Desna, the CG goddess of dreams and the stars. DM said no, that makes no sense to your alignment. I said A) it wasn't important what his alignment was to her if he wasn't a cleric, B) someone can still find something to respect or revere out of an opposing alignment deity, and C) you don't have to be the perfect representation of your deity just like any given violent extremist that still claims that deity as their guide as irl proves. Still denied.

Meh.

[mAc Chaos]

If you were a Cleric or Paladin then yeah. But a Wizard?

Let's look at her lore. It seems she's also the goddess of travel and people give her prayers when they're traveling. People of all alignments travel, so it sounds like she doesn't care about receiving worship from non-CG aligned people.

That brings me to the Paladin though. There's the 5e Unearthed Arcana Warlock "positive energy" patron. I wonder if that would work as a multiclassed option for the Paladin or if it wouldn't make sense for a Paladin to do that. Not mechanically, but lorewise. To me, it seems like it shouldn't since the Paladin is dedicated to their deity. Contracting yourself out as the subject of another power seems like it would go against that.

[Janx]

What if their positive energy patron was like a servant of your god though, or atleast closely aligned.

[Seika]

The thing is that a deity isn't solely their portfolio: they have a religion built up around them too. A church, holy texts, teachings, rites. And those are going to be skewed by the god's alignment even if 'travel' is a neutral concept in itself.

Anyone can say prayers to any god, but if you actually start claiming them as the one you honour first and foremost (even as one of the congregation instead of the clergy) then you ought to be paying attention to what they're saying. And a Good god is probably going to have things to say about not being a nasty piece of work.

It's definitely a case where I'd go, "Convince me."

That brings me to the Paladin though. There's the 5e Unearthed Arcana Warlock "positive energy" patron. I wonder if that would work as a multiclassed option for the Paladin or if it wouldn't make sense for a Paladin to do that. Not mechanically, but lorewise. To me, it seems like it shouldn't since the Paladin is dedicated to their deity. Contracting yourself out as the subject of another power seems like it would go against that.

What if their positive energy patron was like a servant of your god though, or atleast closely aligned.

It's called out as the energy of the Positive, "not a specific entity". The Positive is kinda iffy on comprehensibly sentient creatures. Or, indeed, physical matter.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Part of the idea was that this was not a guy that was evil out of some simplistic "well I'm evil, guess that's that" sort of thing, but that he'd done a lot of things that definitely put him in an evil category while he at least tries or views himself as attempting to live up to certain standards. Basically like, you know, a religious fundamentalist that actively persecutes a neighbor that's of a different race or religion or gender or whatever.

Honestly I think my DM was too used to Dragonlance and when I say "NE Wizard" he thinks black robed Nuitari follower, not the equivalent white-robed Solinari follower that happens to actively take steps over the moral line.

[Five_X]

That's an amazing session btw, Saiga. I think I've only ever experienced something like that once or twice, and it's just fantastic when it all comes together.

[Zurvan]

Hello, sorry to disrupt the current topic but I got a quick question. Lately I've begun a D&D session with some friends and its been fun so far. Though I'm not sure what to do next with my character.
I'm a druid, and have chosen the circle of the moon. Transforming seems very strong for now, but I'm not sure if it'll stay like this. Does anyone have any pointers or tips for a druid, as well as just beginner tips in general?

[black1blade]

About the money thing, here's the original justification for gear being so expensive:
"Your character will most probably beadventuring in an area where moneyis plentiful. Think of the situation as similar to Alaskan boom towns during
the gold rush days, when eggs sold for one dollar each and mining tools
sold for $20, $50, and $100 or more! Costs in the adventuring area are
distorted because of the law of supply and demand - the supply of coin is
high, while supplies of equipment for adventurers are in great demand. "

[mAc Chaos]

Hello, sorry to disrupt the current topic but I got a quick question. Lately I've begun a D&D session with some friends and its been fun so far. Though I'm not sure what to do next with my character.
I'm a druid, and have chosen the circle of the moon. Transforming seems very strong for now, but I'm not sure if it'll stay like this. Does anyone have any pointers or tips for a druid, as well as just beginner tips in general?

Ah, so those videos made you finally take the plunge huh.

What's the adventure?

I'm guessing you're playing a 5e Druid.