Tabletop Games Thread

[mAc Chaos]

5e rules are not written like a legal document. It's meant to just be everyday language and common sense. Some parts are even left undefined on purpose for the GM to decide it, in which case there is no RAW answer aside from the RAW answer being "ask your GM."

You get a spellbook at level 1 because it's part of your equipment. You can choose not to take that equipment; in that case, you don't have the spellbook. Since it's from your given class equipment, that means you don't get it when you multiclass, just like when you multiclass into other classes and don't get that related equipment.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/20...book-for-free/

That's my take on it anyway.

Are you thinking of multiclassing with a wizard in AL? How does that stuff work anyway in Adventure League normally? If there's a vague area, does the GM still get to decide?

[Saiga]

The spellbook is clear, the time and gold spent on the starting spells is less so for what Trubo mentioned. It makes sense that the player should spend the time and gold to scribe those spells before getting access to those features, but that should also mean this happens every time the Wizard levels up and gets two new spells, which I don't think is the way most tables run it. It certainly isn't mentioned in the part of the class description that gives you two Wizard spells each level.

[Trubo]

By that argument, a character starting at Wizard 1 that rolls for gold should be ineligible for the first six level spells since it's not a spellbook they start with.

The only reason I'm being this particular about it is because, as far as AL is concerned, RAW is the basis for anything. What one DM considers to be fine, another doesn't. Heck, even the Sage Advice column states that AL DMs can ignore things they don't like from the Sage Advice ruling if RAW says something else.

So when there are things that are RAW and come off as iffy, that's a big issue. I know that there's already been one PHB Errata, but I think it's high time for another to cover things that should have been addressed in the first place (i.e. if the intent is the multiclass Wizard does gets neither the spellbook nor six first level spells for free, make this obvious by putting the spellbook with six first level spells as equipment and not a feature, or elaborate in the multiclass section about this particular problem), or for things that cause problems when using information published after the PHB to justify something that might not have been intended (e.g. War Caster potentially letting spellcasters bypass reach weapon restrictions when triggering an OA because of the whole spell cast + Booming Blade).

Are these things super major problems? Nah, not really. In homebrew games, if something's fishy, you consult the DM and see what you do from there. In AL though, as I mentioned before, this isn't so clear cut.

Are you thinking of multiclassing with a wizard in AL? How does that stuff work anyway in Adventure League normally? If there's a vague area, does the GM still get to decide?

AL allows for multiclassing. In general, you follow the rules outlined in the Multiclassing section in the PHB.

The problem for multiclassing to Wizard though is that one line I've previously posted that states that you get any features from your new class that are specified to be obtained by level. For the Wizard, this is an issue because the six first level spells are something that you get as a feature from Wizard level one, not from your equipment.

The main issue here is that while most DMs would probably rule as you do, someone that has a DM that's not too familiar with the game would just read the PHB and say that the player gets the six first level spells as described in the class without any hassle. At that point, which is AL legal: the reasonable RAI restriction of the former or the RAW of the latter?

This is especially a hassle if a person goes to a convention or plays online, possibly having tens of different DMs throughout their character's playtime.

One final edit: If the solution is that a person needs to start Wizard to not have to worry about multiclassing problems, then that's a pretty big problem when no other class has this concern when dealing with multiclass rules.

[mAc Chaos]

I've almost finished implementing this macro for using Speed Factor in roll20...

[mAc Chaos]

Hey Trubo. You were right!

It just pops into existence. Or more accurately, your DM figures a way out to get it to you by the threads of fate. I will of course completely ignore it for home games still, but you have an answer.

[Trubo]

Even being right, it still sounds dumb. Oh well.

[Saiga]

Dumb, yet fair

[aldeayeah]

Some old guy/lady walks up to you, gives you a book, says "I'm too old for this shit" and puffs out in a cloud of mist.

[Saiga]

You acquire a wizard's spellbook, containing six first level spells. You learn your magic from this book, and it shapes your own shorthand and notations - as such, you don't need to copy these spells down into a different style.

[aldeayeah]

This conversation has inspired my next high-level D&D character.

Krond, the Wise: A high-level barbarian with a single level of wizard, who goes around in full magus garb, insists in solving everything with magic, and ends up beating the hell out of people with his quarterstaff in a predictable, yet comical way.

[mAc Chaos]

You go carousing one night and wake up the next morning with a headache and a spellbook you don't remember writing.

[R.Lock]

A black book drops from the sky outside the window of your classroom.

[Mattias]

The one of the giant rats you cleared out of the sewers last quest had one tied to it's back. All to go along with it's nice little hat, glasses and fake beard.

[aldeayeah]

Spellbooks fall, everyone gets one level of wizard.

[Sesto]

Ended up doing my first session of LMoP last night, with a group consisting of one of my friends and a bunch of randoms we met on Roll20. It was rough as all of us were mostly new but it enjoyable. Overall I kind of think I didn't do the best job as DM, but everyone said they had fun which is good.

Wasn't sure if you were looking for a group still Trubo, but sorry I didn't let you know. Since I had to resort to having mostly randoms, I tried to grab newcomers specifically so my inexperienced DM skills wouldn't be too annoying.

[mAc Chaos]

Awesome. I love how many people are doing LMOP. It gives everyone a common experience.

As long as your players had fun then you did good. You'll improve with each game. Just reflect on what you did.

[Trubo]

Ended up doing my first session of LMoP last night, with a group consisting of one of my friends and a bunch of randoms we met on Roll20. It was rough as all of us were mostly new but it enjoyable. Overall I kind of think I didn't do the best job as DM, but everyone said they had fun which is good.

Wasn't sure if you were looking for a group still Trubo, but sorry I didn't let you know. Since I had to resort to having mostly randoms, I tried to grab newcomers specifically so my inexperienced DM skills wouldn't be too annoying.

No problem. Don't have anything permanent on Sundays, but AL games aren't too terribly difficult to find.

Speaking of which, was in DDAL07-14 The Fathomless Pits of Ill Intent last night. Felt like a DDAL05-07 Chelimber's Descent done right in that all the traps were set up in ways that you wouldn't be able to figure out they were traps without some sort of really clever thinking. One example involved what looked to be a pool of water.

Spoiler:

The pool was about 20' beneath us, and none of us had familiars to investigate it. One person quaffed a Water Breathing potion that they had, jumped in, and proceeded to fall over 100' because it was just an illusion.

[Sesto]

Just finished the third session of LMoP, things seem to be going well. I was a bit worried having mostly random players but everyone seems to work well together, and everyone's inexperience hasn't been an issue.

As a DM I can't help but still feel a bit lacking though. I don't get much in the way of feedback/suggestions despite asking for it unfortunately (probably due to everyone being strangers). I think my biggest issues is playing NPCs - I might understand their character, but reacting to player responses in-character is a bit of struggle, making the NPCs seem samey (at least to me). Maybe it'd help if I did voices but I'm not sure I feel comfortable doing that lol.

[mAc Chaos]

Not getting a lot of feedback isn't necessarily a fault of your own -- most people don't approach things in the mindset that involves analytically breaking things down. Usually when I ask someone how something was, they just say "good" and that's about it. You have to learn to read the mood and interpret their reactions yourself. Though, obviously, it's nice when you have players who delve into their reactions to things.

Another way to approach it is to focus on very specific questions. "Did you think allowing PvP in that session made it more fun, or would it have been better without it?" Etc. That way you at least have a concrete situation to discuss.

Also, consider that their inexperience means they don't have much to compare the game against, so it's hard to say what's good and bad aside from the fact that they enjoyed it, which is the goal.

I suppose strangers could play a factor, but that can be assuaged by time and stressing that you're not asking to get praise but trying to calibrate your skills. Sometimes people assume when you ask for feedback you just mean "tell me how good I am" which isn't the case, or they feel awkward about offering any downsides since you might take it personally. If they do give you some feedback, don't try to argue with them about it if you think they didn't appreciate something enough. If you give off a vibe that you get prickly when people don't "get" your masterpiece then you just make them shut down and stop giving any feedback. Just take what they give you and evaluate it for what insights it might hold.

It sounds like you're doing a good job and will settle in to the role more as you go.

[mAc Chaos]

Random question, Sesto. What's your time zone?