View Poll Results: What's your Favorite System?

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  • 1e

    2 3.28%
  • 2e

    2 3.28%
  • 3.5e

    10 16.39%
  • d20 (custom rules, etc)

    8 13.11%
  • PF

    14 22.95%
  • 4e

    5 8.20%
  • 5e

    20 32.79%
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Thread: Tabletop Games Thread

  1. #2861
    HSTP 500 Internal S ervant  Error aldeayeah's Avatar
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    Yesterday we had the second session in the Star Wars group. Almost TPK'd, too! Good times.
    As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

  2. #2862
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Hey there, guys! So, for those of you who are more familiar with D&D 5E, what's the best mechanical way to create a warrior minstrel-type character - that is, someone who's focused on social interaction and supporting allies in combat, while still being able to hold his own in a fight (spellcasting optional, but restricted to spells that fit the theme and can be flavoured as magical songs)? Should I just try out a Valor Bard, or would a Battle Commander (?) Fighter with Maneuvers focused on support (such as Rally) work better?

    Quote Originally Posted by aldeayeah View Post
    Yesterday we had the second session in the Star Wars group. Almost TPK'd, too! Good times.
    Heh. How did that go, exactly?
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot)
    - A duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) (Lemon) - Shirou and Shinji finally acknowledge their feelings.
    He Was a Good King (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) - A short exploration of Beowulf's character as a hero and a king.

  3. #2863
    The No Sleep King mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Any of the bards should work. How much are you favoring melee combat is the question.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  4. #2864
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    If you specifically want music as the main theme, then Bard. Otherwise, consider Paladin (aura, half caster, smite), Sorcerer (full caster, offensive + buffs, but can get healing if Divine Soul), or Warlock since they're the classes other that gravitate to Charisma anyway.

    Or just go Wizard with a decent Charisma score. Bladesinger can be good at melee + still being a full caster. Abjuration gets an easily charged temp HP shield (i.e. you should always cast Mage Armor before heading out), and can eventually extend that shield to others. Conjuration lets you summon stuff to help support your melee group members. Evocation lets you freely cast Fireballs and the like into a tight group of enemies+group members without the latter getting killed. If you go with Unearthed Arcana, there's also Theurgy, which is basically a Wizard that can snag Cleric spells + most of the Cleric Divine Domain features (can't get Armor and Weapon proficiencies).
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  5. #2865
    HSTP 500 Internal S ervant  Error aldeayeah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    Heh. How did that go, exactly?
    In a lv1 group with two diplomancers, we keep shooting first.
    As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

  6. #2866
    JAlter came home Saiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    Hey there, guys! So, for those of you who are more familiar with D&D 5E, what's the best mechanical way to create a warrior minstrel-type character - that is, someone who's focused on social interaction and supporting allies in combat, while still being able to hold his own in a fight (spellcasting optional, but restricted to spells that fit the theme and can be flavoured as magical songs)? Should I just try out a Valor Bard, or would a Battle Commander (?) Fighter with Maneuvers focused on support (such as Rally) work better?
    Swashbuckler Rogue with Expertise in performance, and the Entertainer background for the instrument proficiency. They're less sneaky than normal Rogues, designed around having a lot of flair and style. They also like to have high charisma.

  7. #2867
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    Any of the bards should work. How much are you favoring melee combat is the question.
    Basically, I want the character to 1) not be one of the squishies (very important goal!), and 2) be good enough at dealing melee damage that just hanging back inspiring / casting spells / firing arrows isn't the mechanically superior option, at least not by much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    If you specifically want music as the main theme, then Bard.
    I do, but as long as the DM is fine with it, I don't mind reflavouring - to a certain point. So no summoning, no blasting, or anything of the sort, but I'll take a look at the Paladin and the Warlock.

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by aldeayeah View Post
    In a lv1 group with two diplomancers, we keep shooting first.
    Hah! Why, though?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiga View Post
    Swashbuckler Rogue with Expertise in performance, and the Entertainer background for the instrument proficiency. They're less sneaky than normal Rogues, designed around having a lot of flair and style. They also like to have high charisma.
    Hm! Interesting. But can they also somehow give any sort of bonuses to allies?
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot)
    - A duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) (Lemon) - Shirou and Shinji finally acknowledge their feelings.
    He Was a Good King (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) - A short exploration of Beowulf's character as a hero and a king.

  8. #2868
    JAlter came home Saiga's Avatar
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    Swashbucklers get Panache at level 9, which lets you make a Persuasion check vs a hostile creature's insight check and basically taunt them - they get disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you, and can't make opportunity attacks other than against you. It ends early if your allies attack it or affect it with a spell, but it can be a good way to give your allies a chance to safely disengage.

    Also, the Swashbuckler does not provoke opportunity attacks from creatures it has made an attack against that turn, so it's highly mobile which is something that can be used in conjunction with the above to separate enemies from your allies.

    That's not really direct support, but you could use one of the Swashbuckler's additional ASIs to pick up a feat like Martial Adept and take two Battlemaster maneuvers that would help.

  9. #2869
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Cool ability, but only level 9? I was kind of hoping for something which could be used earlier. Still, it could be fun to play if I go for a full melee character, so thanks!
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot)
    - A duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) (Lemon) - Shirou and Shinji finally acknowledge their feelings.
    He Was a Good King (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) - A short exploration of Beowulf's character as a hero and a king.

  10. #2870
    HSTP 500 Internal S ervant  Error aldeayeah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    Hah! Why, though?
    Because the soldier and the force initiate are really trigger-happy, and the padawan is Lawful Stupid (is also the wolves GM :D).
    As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

  11. #2871
    18 points of DEX damage An Abstract Platypus?'s Avatar
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    I like the sound of this rogue build. I typically add at least two fighter levels for the weapon proficiencies and bonus feats… but a bombastic character would probably suit me…
    Likes attention, shiny objects, and... a ball of yarn?
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    I joined two years too late...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hymn of Ragnarok View Post
    That makes me think of Rin as a loan shark.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hymn of Ragnarok View Post
    Admittedly, she'd probably be the hottest loan shark you'll ever meet. She'd probably make you smile as she sucked you dry.


    Oh dear, that doesn't sound like yuri at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Techlet View Post
    Not with that attitude.

  12. #2872
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Can't seem to find a definitive answer anywhere, so I'll ask here for everyone's opinion. Via RAW and RAI, is there anything that says how much gold it costs to Multiclass to Wizard? I'm assuming that it costs 50 gold since a Wizard needs a spell book, but I've seen other people say that you have to pay the costs of scribing your six first level spells into the book as described in the Wizard's class features, which is either an additional 300 gold + 2 Downtime Days or 50 gold + 1 Downtime Day.

    As I've already said, I think just paying for the spell book is already a big enough expense, given that a person Multiclassing to Wizard gets no proficiencies or skills, as opposed to other Multiclass options. Also, no other Multiclass option absolutely requires paying for something just to use their class features, though someone that goes Fighter would obviously need to buy a weapon and/or armor if they intend to use said weapon. Granted, it's entirely possible that said someone already has in their possession said items from a fallen foe or as a reward, so even that expense could be negated.

    Roleplaying justifications aren't too hard to think up for either case, which is why I'd really like something that's RAW, RAI, or a Sage Advice entry from Crawford about this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  13. #2873
    The No Sleep King mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Huh! I haven't thought about that in a long time.

    I don't think there's anything on it, but we could try to extrapolate.

    A wizard that loses their spellbook is also a character who needs to purchase and inscribe the spells to use their Wizard class features. A character multiclassing into wizard is essentially just that. So just like a wizard who has lost their spellbook, and needs to go out and acquire a new one, they would have to do the same.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  14. #2874
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    The problem I have with that interpretation is that it makes Wizard the only class that absolutely must have gold to multiclass, lest it lose features promised in its class features without having a specific stat (20 Int + Wizard 1 for six first level spells prepared, if not written down). Made a twitter account today to ask Crawford what his thoughts on it are, as I can see the following gold costs:

    1. 50 gold for a spell book (I'm fine with this because you don't get a Spell Book RAW if you multiclass, just like a Fighter multiclass doesn't get to pick whatever Martial Weapons that they want for free)

    2. Either 10 gold + 1 hour per first level spell if we go with the rules of scribing spells you already know to a new Spell Book, or 50 gold + 2 hours per first level spell if we go with the rules of trying to add a new spell to your Spell Book.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  15. #2875
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Speaking of 5e things, what is everyone's stance regarding Stealth checks to remain unnoticed by enemies as you advance towards them, both in and out of combat? I think that it's possible to do so, but trying to Stealth in this way requires a Stealth check that takes up your Action to do so, and is not something that Rogues can get by via Cunning Action because it is not a function of the Hide Action.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  16. #2876
    The No Sleep King mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    It's not? But Hide requires making a Stealth check.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  17. #2877
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Via the PHB and Crawford's comments about it, Hiding requires something to obscure a target's ability to see you. If you're out in the open, you can't attempt to Hide.

    https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/03/25...-they-ba-hide/

    Q: I am curious: when the rogue starts round hidden behind wall, moves out, attacks... is she hidden during the attack? Or, broke cover and no?

    JC: Are you referring to an attack from behind cover, or are you referring to a rogue who moves X ft. in the open and then attacks?

    Q: Lat(t)er. Rogue starts hidden, moves out to see foe, attacks. Players like to argue they are still hidden on attack.

    JC: You can attack while hidden and gain the benefit. But if you run out into the open and then attack, you're not hidden when you attack.
    It goes into further detail about attacking from range while benefiting from Hide, but that's not relevant to trying to move into melee unnoticed.

    Quote Originally Posted by PHB 192, Hide (Action)
    When you take the Hide action, you make a Dexterity (Stealth) check in an attempt to hide, following the rules in chapter 7 for hiding. If you succeed, you gain certain benefits, as described in the “Unseen Attackers and Targets” section later in this chapter.
    Quote Originally Posted by PHB 177, Hiding
    When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check’s total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence.

    You can’t hide from a creature that can see you, and if you make noise (such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase), you give away your position. An invisible creature can’t be seen, so it can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, however, and it still has to stay quiet.

    In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you. However, under certain circumstances, the Dungeon Master might allow you to stay hidden as you approach a creature that is distracted, allowing you to gain advantage on an attack before you are seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by PHB 177, Stealth
    Make a Dexterity (Stealth) check when you attempt to conceal yourself from enemies, slink past guards, slip away without being noticed, or sneak up on someone without being seen or heard.
    Quote Originally Posted by PHB 194-195, Unseen Attackers and Targets
    Combatants often try to escape their foes’ notice by hiding, casting the invisibility spell, or lurking in darkness.

    When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you’re guessing the target’s location or you’re targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn’t in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the DM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target’s location correctly.

    When a creature can’t see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.

    If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.
    Hidden is explicitly defined as unseen because of something obscuring vision + unheard. My argument is that simply moving quietly does not mean that you're hiding, as walking quietly down a hallway is not described as being hidden. Since you're not hiding, you must actively try not to be noticed, which can fail if a target, for whatever reason, turns and sees you (knocked prone and can see behind, a mirror, or the would be Stealth person makes too much noise walking towards the target).
    Last edited by Trubo; March 23rd, 2018 at 02:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  18. #2878
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Unrelated, what are your views regarding spells like Disintegrate and Power Word Kill used on a Druid's Wild Shape?

    https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/d...Compendium.pdf

    What happens if a druid using Wild Shape is reduced to 0 hit points by disintegrate? Does the druid simply leave beast form? The druid turns to dust, since the spell disintegrates you the instant you drop to 0 hit points.

    That’s the literal interpretation of the rules (RAW). In contrast, the intent (RAI) is that a druid isn’t considered to be at 0 hit points for the purposes of an effect like disintegrate until the druid’s normal form is reduced to 0 hit points.
    With that established, a discussion I was in proposed that Power Word Kill could still instantly kill a Druid if its Wild Shape had 100 or less HP. I disagreed, citing the RAI clarification of Disintegrate indicating that you are to consider all of the HP a Druid has from both the Wild Shape and their HP before entering Wild Shape.

    Those in favor of Power Word Kill instantly killing a Wild Shape Druid said it's because that's what the Wild Shape description implies. I pointed out that the text explicitly says

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Shape
    Starting at 2nd level, you can use your action to magically assume the shape of a beast that you have seen before. You can use this feature twice. You regain expended uses when you finish a short or long rest.
    The key word here is "assume". The text does not say that you replace all of your stats with the Wild Shape beast form, but that you assume the Wild Shape beast form. This implies that you need to consider both the Wild Shape and the Druid when it comes to resolving damage/death. To counter, they brought up this:

    You automatically revert if you fall unconscious, drop to 0 hit points, or die. While you are transformed, the following rules apply:
    At this point, it's clear that "you" is referring to the Druid's normal form.

    They then point out later in the description:

    When you transform, you assume the beast's hit points and Hit Dice. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. However, if you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. For example, if you take 10 damage in animal form and have only 1 hit point left, you revert and take 9 damage. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren't knocked unconscious.
    And equated the previously quoted text's "you" with the above's quoted text "you". I disagree, saying that the second "you" is clearly in reference to the Wild Shape form that the Druid is in, not the Druid's normal form.

    With this in mind, I came up with two scenarios to consider:

    Case 1 = A Druid's HP is equal to the HP the Wild Shape currently has + the Druid's HP before entering Wild Shape

    Case 2 = A Druid has two separate HP bars, one for the Wild Shape and one for the Druid's normal form.

    For Case 1, Power Word Kill could only kill the Druid if the total amount of HP the Druid had was 100 or less. For Case 2, the Druid would not die from a single Power Word Kill since the Wild Shape form would "die", triggering the condition to revert the Druid back to its normal form.

    I personally think Case 1 is the correct interpretation, as it matches the RAI described by Crawford regarding Disintegrate.

    Haven't gotten a reply yet, and will probably have to wait until tomorrow morning.
    Last edited by Trubo; March 23rd, 2018 at 02:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  19. #2879
    HSTP 500 Internal S ervant  Error aldeayeah's Avatar
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    Having a archdruid in rat form be just as tough as a rat is pretty hilarious.
    Last edited by aldeayeah; March 23rd, 2018 at 10:26 AM.
    As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

  20. #2880
    The No Sleep King mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Are you trying to figure out what the RAW would be, or the RAI, Trubo?
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

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