This reminds me a bit of the complaint a irl friend of mine had about D&D in general; he despised the dice. He hated the chance element they represented. As he saw it, you could should either succeed or fail based on their ability and skill without chance being a factor. Never could get him to play outside of chargen.
5e is designed to always present a challenge regardless of level, so that fail chance is almost certainly intentional. You can't just auto-win.
Asha Records
Fuyuki - Winter Cleaning
My Shameful Fics and the Wiki to go with them. Oh, and some fossil I found.
[16:43] <Twelveseal> Phallus in wonderland sounds like some bad loli-rape KC fanfic
[16:43] <@Sei> THAT'S what i wanna see
I meanOriginally Posted by Deathhappens
isnt that normal?
i thought this is also how real life works
things can happen when you got bad luck, even if youre doing something youre good at
more so if its something you are trained for, but not having the initial aptitude for it
Last edited by castor212; January 18th, 2020 at 12:52 PM.
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just take 10 lol
I'm pretty sure that even, say, a clumsy plumber can go through hundreds of pipe changes before messing up once irl. 30% is huge. It means you will fail to perform "easy" tasks like climbing a knotted rope or remembering the name of the neighbouring country a solid third of the time.
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Now consider that most skill checks you meet that actually matter will fall in the DC 15 range at minimum (sneaking into a guarded camp under moonlight, convincing an angry king to give you a stay of execution, climbing a steep cliff without equipment) and your chances of success for any skill you don't have a good AS bonus in plummet.
Last edited by Deathhappens; January 18th, 2020 at 02:45 PM.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't your examples of easy tasks either not require a Check in the first place, or be more like DC 5 rather than 10 or 15?
Asha Records
Fuyuki - Winter Cleaning
My Shameful Fics and the Wiki to go with them. Oh, and some fossil I found.
[16:43] <Twelveseal> Phallus in wonderland sounds like some bad loli-rape KC fanfic
[16:43] <@Sei> THAT'S what i wanna see
A skill check of Easy would be DC 5. But you also don't ask for a skill check on every possible action, only significant ones. If there's really no real chance of failure then you just give it to them.
Taking 10 isn't really in 5e, but there's is using your Passive skills to basically do the same thing. However, that's only possible in situations where you're at total leisure, without any time pressures, and free to do it over and over again (ie, not disarming a bomb or something with an actual result on a failure).
This has proven quite difficult; there's some very close sheets! I'm now leaving to travel to visit a friend, so I'll post the winner on Monday or maybe Sunday.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Why would changing pipes requires DC 10?
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No really, why?
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Currently (like, actually) finishing Apocrypha 3
I'm going by the book here; 5 is Very Easy or Trivial, 10 is Easy.
Changing a pipe is an action that requires a minimum level of competence or a little luck. It also requires a check because it is an action where a failure might have an adverse effect (not fitting it properly or even destroying it by accident).
EDIT: Correction, the quoted part comes from the LMoP starter module. The PHB has the same table but without the explanatory blurb. Notably, Lost Mines also omits the DC 5 "Very Easy" category, perhaps because it doesn't come up in there.
Last edited by Deathhappens; January 18th, 2020 at 02:44 PM.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
why cant the plumber just use a passive check if its something he is familiar with, and doing so for a large amount of time over and over again? you cant fail passive checks DC 10 in this case.
- - - Updated - - -A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn't involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the GM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.
Here's how to determine a character's total for a passive check:
10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check
but i guess that isnt your point
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...What DM would ask for that check in the first place?! Skill checks aren't meant for everyday tasks, they're for *adventuring*!
give me a dexterity check for eating that sandwich
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Nat 1, you choke on a cut of meat, make a death save.
Asha Records
Fuyuki - Winter Cleaning
My Shameful Fics and the Wiki to go with them. Oh, and some fossil I found.
[16:43] <Twelveseal> Phallus in wonderland sounds like some bad loli-rape KC fanfic
[16:43] <@Sei> THAT'S what i wanna see
30% chance to fail an eaay check that you have literally no attribute bonus for sounds reasonable.
Just because you can conceive of a failure does not mean a check is required - it's if success/failure is both plausible and interesting. For changing a pipe, just because there is a chance of failure doesn't make it interesting. Further, there shouldn't be any time pressure so a passive check can be made instead.
No attribute bonus BUT YOU DO HAVE PROFICIENCY IN IT- this is a skill in which YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD AT. It's a bit less for a skill you have expertise in, but that's a skill you are supposed to be an EXPERT on- and you can still fail it at least a solid 1/4 of the time.
Also, I gave plenty of adventuring examples of "easy" tasks that you will still have 30% chance of failing, I don't know why you're so fixated on plumbing.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
To be fair, you brought it up - more than once.
The other examples also fall into the realm of 'things you shouldn't roll for' except maybe for the rope in a time-sensitive situation - and if you are completely lacking in upper body strength, that seems pretty reasonable.
It's a skill you're good at so you succeed 70% of the time in time-pressured circumstances... Seems pretty good to me.
Ah I got it. So you're supposed to automatically win. Makes sense to me.
<Airen> I play hetero every once in awhileSpoiler:
Spoiler:
Yeah I don't see the point of DC 5 checks or ones that you need a higher than 70% success chance on when you're only partially invested in the skill.
Those just shouldn't be checks.
The point of a skill check is to simulate that, under pressure, sometimes things go wrong (because in any other scenario you can take ten, which is another mechanic that shouldn't have been removed). Not to randomize whether you woke up with a functional brain this morning.
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But this conversation is clearly going nowhere fast, so let's just agree to disagree.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Yeah, but the first is what the skill system actually does if your DM is competent. The second is what it does under a bad DM, or in hypotheticals you gave that no-one would reasonably require a roll for.
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