I think Gray's age is a better indication.Originally Posted by You
Also, everywhere it says some years after the HGW5, so we could agree that is four years at most.
I think Gray's age is a better indication.
Also, everywhere it says some years after the HGW5, so we could agree that is four years at most.
I don't really have an opinion other than, Wow nasuverse doesn't math.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
The problem is that they are being vague like always.
Couldn't Risei have been in Japan for years?
The Hall of Selected Cruor Praise
Maybe? If you were like Risei was in Japan for years but left to see Kotomine because Claudia died and he wanted to be there for his son.It was the previous night that Kirei had discovered the surfacing pattern shaped in three marks. He had then consulted his father, and Risei had immediately taken his son to Turin the next morning to meet that young magus.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
A bit late, but I get that feeling mostly by how rapid and un-prefaced his transitions are. He'll be talking about something, and then without warning, switch to a completely unrelated subject. It feels to me like he just isn't trying to segue into his proceeding points, he's just like "I'm bored with this train of thought, let's start a new one."
It doesn't bother me so much when I'm reading it, but as even just an amateur writer, it irks me a little when I write out the English translation.
Duly noted.Just for future reference オド is od, not odo.
Huh I never realized that foundations were similar to servant fame bonuses. Would the simplest aspects of magecraft like reinforcement be one of those that have a worldwide foundation since it basically boils down to making something 'better'? And what do they mean by modern magecraft began in the 19th century?
Reinforcement is an attribute. It isn't a foundation. Foundations are like Runes or Kabbalah.
There's a department in the Clocktower known as Modern Magecraft studies. And by that they mean starting to incorporate different concepts and stuff into different magecrafts making it into what it is today. In short the "globalization of magecraft."
Last edited by You; July 4th, 2015 at 01:55 AM.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
The implication I took from it was that classical Magecraft (pre-1800s) functioned primarily on the understanding and exploitation of Mysteries, in the way that Touko describes them (in I forget where, but probably Rakkyo somewhere) whereas modern Magecraft (post 1800s) functions primarily on the understanding and exploitation of Angels/Conceptual forces. With the general idea being that as time goes on, Mystery-based Magecraft gets weaker and weaker, due to propagation of knowledge, while Concept-based Magecraft gets stronger and stronger for the same reason.
So when they say that modern Magecraft began in the 19th century, I took that to mean that was the time when main stream magi began to shift from Mystery-based to Concept-based Magecraft.
As for whether Reinforcement would have a worldwide foundation, that depends on how exactly reinforcement functions. If its Mystery-based ("I can make swords sharper just by touching them! Look how amazing I am!"), then not at all. If it functions as a Concept-based Magecraft ("I invoke the power of the god of Blacksmiths to sharpen this sword! Success!"), then it is entirely based upon which particular Concept is being invoked. However, the concept of simply "things improving" wouldn't work as a foundation, because there is no commonly held belief that "swords naturally get sharper over time," to continue the example.
Personally though, I would expect at least Shirou's brand of reinforcement to be Mystery-based, and thus the whole talk of foundations doesn't really apply to it. Or at least if it does, the foundation would serve to weaken it, rather than strengthen it.
[/conjecture]
Personally I don't think there's a distinction between pre 1800 and post 1800 magecraft mechanistically. Since even pre 1800 it would seem like magecraft should have still run on foundations that have been engraved into the Earth based on CM3's info about foundations.
Shirou's reinforcement comes from UBW so it wouldn't really apply. He's basically applying the concept of UBW to reinforce the swords.
Also it's hard to break down attributes like Reinforcement because they are general.
Take the Matou's Absorption. Absorption itself doesn't have a genre; however, we know that Zouken was from Russia and left his foundation there to come to Japan. Therefore, the Matou style absorption magecraft must have it's foundation in Russia somewhere.
Another example would be the Tohsaka's Conversion attribute.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
[speculah]
My version of what you said:
Many of the old foundations were probably based on stuff nature spirits could do. Those were stronger in the Age of Gods, but became weakened in the paradigm shift to the Age of Man, as Humanity shunned them/shifted them away from "reality".
So the new foundations woild be built on the stuff Humanity accepts. Like Angels, etc.
So they're both mysteries. It's just that modern magecraft tries to use mysteries that are more compatible with (engraved in) the modern world/modern humanity.
Modern magecraft would be similar to Church magic in that sense.
I don't think this applies to Reality Marbles at all. Shirou/RM users' foundations would be engraved in themselves.
[/speculah]
Last edited by aldeayeah; July 4th, 2015 at 06:49 AM.
don't quote me on this
Wait so was the makiri's degradation because they moved to an area that had a weak absorption foundation? Their magic circuits could have been linked to the worms which were linked to their foundation so when they moved to a new area that couldn't sustain the foundation, their downfall began.
Nope, sometimes things just end. Shit happens. The Makiri would have died out as magi after Zouken no matter what they did.
Yes and no.
A foundation is linked to the land that it was established in. Using your magecraft elsewhere in the world will work because the foundation fuses with the earth if it's a religion or academia; however, you lose the support of the land.
The Makiri are from Russia, there foundation is in Russia. They moved to Japan. That means while they can use their magecraft because there is a foundation, it is weaker in Japan than it is in Russia.
Whether or not they fell because of this sole factor is something else entirely.
Bold parts are relevant.Land and Magic
To use magic, what is necessary is a sequence in which a magus, once establishing contact with a magic foundation engraved in the world, sends a command to the magic foundation and executes a premade function. At this time, the fuel used for executing the function is magic energy, and the magus will have to send the command at the same time as the magic energy.
Magic foundations are magic theories that magus schools have engraved in the world, and magic is started up in accordance with those rules and systems. For example, the magic theory with the largest foundation is the “Teaching of the Lord” of the Church. Magic foundations engraved in the form of academia and religions fuse intimately with the veins of the land, and the magus using that magic foundation can perform magic anywhere in the world. However, if the magus leaves the land where his magic foundation was engraved in, he loses the backup of his land, and the force is certain to deteriorate.
Note that the case is different with magic foundations that are not academia or religions but rather are passed down through personal orally transmitted teachings, the limited inheritance in clans, etc. As long as the rules of those foundations are met, it is possible to exhibit the same basic effect no matter where one is in the world.
Matou Zouken
The Makiri line moved from their homeland to Fuyuki and fell. For a magus to leave their land carries the meaning of departing from their own magic foundation and is extremely risky.
Last edited by You; July 4th, 2015 at 08:43 PM.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
I think it was all Kariya's fault.
I don't want to die
But that's not why.
It's not that the Japanese soil didn't suit them.
The Makiri didn't die out because of an external factor.
They merely dropped out.
It has been three hundred years since the start of their search.
Three hundred years was their limit.
The family died out in Zouken's generation.
The suffering started there, and the old man could do nothing but deny the truth.
Matou Zouken's life was a frantic protest against the end of the Makiri bloodline.
Where was this mentioned anyway? In a material book or something? I'm just curious.
"The world is just another word for the things you value around you, right? That's something I've had since I was born. If you tell me to rule such a world, I already rule it."
.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Thanks You.
"The world is just another word for the things you value around you, right? That's something I've had since I was born. If you tell me to rule such a world, I already rule it."
It's a nice surprise for me that this is being translated, and at a good pace. GJ.
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