Shuten does full party charms so that you can't block her NP, hits everyone for 150% damage and can be killed more easily. Raikou doesn't really have any particularly obnoxious tricks like that.
Shuten does full party charms so that you can't block her NP, hits everyone for 150% damage and can be killed more easily. Raikou doesn't really have any particularly obnoxious tricks like that.
Yeah, kill Shuten quickly so she isn't brutalizing your team.
I critted her to death with Lancelot and hit her with a Gatou CE-boosted Crane Wing. Anti-Divinity CEs like Seeker of Mysteries and Fondant au Chocolat as well as anti-Divine Servants like Enkidu, Karna, and Scathach are a good choice. You could probably get decent mileage out of Nobunaga too.
Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart
No, because Shuten is the one that's dangerous due to her chance that she can charm your whole team.
In general kill the things which kill you, especially if they are charming your entire team. Focus Raikou all you want but that's a death sentence and you're relying on RNG.
Hm, does anyone know about any restrictions on Circe's NP?
It's not gender-based, doesn't seem to be attribute-based, works on undead and non-humanoids. Like, the only times I saw it hit immune was against shadow Sheba and Abby.
Gonna be lame if bosses are going to be immune to her NP.
I assume it doesn't work on giant enemies, but I haven't tested it.
Cirno says no effect against Special Enemies
so i guess starting from Salem there is a new Special Enemies trait
except there is no info about it anywhere
A new FGO NP table
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I watched a video where one of those giant assassin ghosts got transformed. I would link it if I weren't on phone. Rexlent's channel.
It's in Circe NP description that it doesn't work on special enemies, and I think it's "some special enemies are immune" actually
probably it's more server side thing rather than enemies with the "special enemies" trait
Chaldea Heroes
Personal skill
Hm.
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Argh. Releasing a stun-locker just to immediately cockblock her from going crazy. Damn.
So how exactly do card type debuffs like Karna's and HFH's work? Is it basically an inverse cardMod wherever applicable (i.e. damage, NP gen, star gen)?
Both your and enemy's Buster/Arts cards are affected.
I believe so.
i dont think its gonna be particularly popular trait so Circe should be alright
A new FGO NP table
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I mean, she's fun. Hella fun to play, althought requires strong passive NP gen.
It's just not fun that they're shutting down the cheese option so hard and fast.
Well, it's awful enough when KH NPs and you're first slot's dying from IK irregardless, eh? But no, I never said that it's awful. It just could've been way better if the skill's secondary effects doesn't just whiff at chance.
It's not like she has Star Attraction nor is she an Archer or Rider. Yeah, let's look at 'best case scenarios with double Merlin and endless stars'! Let's base everything around it!
It's an evaluation test. Essentially, can your normal Arts perform as well or better than a double Arts in an Arts chain (since you want to use Merlin to support your claim).
It's funny because after everything I've done, she's really not that amazing. 22% if you don't kill the target and with non-Arts first. That means that you effectively gain 22% NP per three turns if you only use her Arts card and not kill the enemy for Overkill benefits. I dunno about you but I've seen better values per three turns than that. In a base case, it should be considered decent. But again, my evaluation of it as a whole is poor because I'm looking at her in a more overall aspect.
As a quick comparison, what are the odds you pull an Arts chain with Servant having a single Arts card versus one having a double Arts card. Yes, having more from other Servants in the frontline reduces it but it's not a joke to mention that it's a specific draw pattern you must achieve since you're trying to pull that one Servant's Arts card in a pool of other Arts. That's what I mean by 'specific draw pattern'.
No, I just stopped using your 'base of argument is having double Merlin' and 'endless stars' evaluation. That's why I'm now incorporating Quick into the scenario. Look, I purposely made it another paragraph so we can't confuse replying to you and giving personal justification on how I evaluated it as such.
You did a chain with the backup of support Merlins. Are you really not saying that she wasn't the 'star of the show'? Ok, maybe I used the term wrongly here. I'm trying to say is that she's being elevated into the 'limelight' position/main damage dealer position as opposed to, say, support or secondary damage dealer position.
A unit who isn't a dedicated support who isn't a Merlin-tier support still can perform decently if their kit's set up right. News at 11, back to you.
Rather I'm evaluating her on more aspects than just main damage dealer (see above as I made a correction in how to approach this situation for calling the roles) since she seems to be able to perform as such. You don't tell me that you only see Nero Bride as pure damage dealer and evaluated her as such as well, right? In short, what she can do, where she can fit, how well or not well she will perform in each and every scenario has to be evaluated if the kit and design allows for it. That's to say, you don't evaluate Merlin as a main damage dealer since his kit doesn't allow for it but you do for Cas Gil since he can be slotted in that way (albeit not as great as a dedicated one). It's a plus that they can be a unit can do multiple roles but it's also a minus if, say, we aren't really making much focus on that Servant over someone else. IE: Using Cas Gil's Art only to boost other Servant's NP gauge rather than focusing on boosting Cas Gil's NP gauge to the max.
Last edited by manafusion; December 16th, 2017 at 02:45 PM.
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Everything could be better. Merlin's Hero Creation could also increase NP damage by 50%, but it doesn't. Ergo, it must not be that good.
Who said anything about double Merlin or endless stars? Just build your team like someone who can think and not put Riders or Archers on it. Use normal star boost CEs like most teams do, and oh wow you have like 20 stars right off the bat every turn.It's not like she has Star Attraction nor is she an Archer or Rider. Yeah, let's look at 'best case scenarios with double Merlin and endless stars'! Let's base everything around it!
That is literally not the case for ANYONE. And for someone who makes fun of the idea of basing a test around double Merlin, you sure do seem to be doing that yourself.It's an evaluation test. Essentially, can your normal Arts perform as well or better than a double Arts in an Arts chain (since you want to use Merlin to support your claim).
22% without her own NP gain buff, sure. But you still haven't explained what a "more overall aspect" even means. It seems like it's just a catch-all for you to handwave whatever reason you want to not like her.It's funny because after everything I've done, she's really not that amazing. 22% if you don't kill the target and with non-Arts first. That means that you effectively gain 22% NP per three turns if you only use her Arts card and not kill the enemy for Overkill benefits. I dunno about you but I've seen better values per three turns than that. In a base case, it should be considered decent. But again, my evaluation of it as a whole is poor because I'm looking at her in a more overall aspect.
Literally impossible to evaluate without the other two team members. Also, again, stop assuming she needs arts chains. Or that everyone needs arts chains. Not everything needs to be a Tamamo/Merlin/Jeanne stall team.As a quick comparison, what are the odds you pull an Arts chain with Servant having a single Arts card versus one having a double Arts card. Yes, having more from other Servants in the frontline reduces it but it's not a joke to mention that it's a specific draw pattern you must achieve since you're trying to pull that one Servant's Arts card in a pool of other Arts. That's what I mean by 'specific draw pattern'.
Was never what I said, nor implied, but thanks for trying.No, I just stopped using your 'base of argument is having double Merlin' and 'endless stars' evaluation.
Still makes absolutely no sense.That's why I'm now incorporating Quick into the scenario. Look, I purposely made it another paragraph so we can't confuse replying to you and giving personal justification on how I evaluated it as such.
[quote]You did a chain with the backup of support Merlins. Are you really not saying that she wasn't the 'star of the show'? Ok, maybe I used the term wrongly here. I'm trying to say is that she's being elevated into the 'limelight' position/main damage dealer position as opposed to, say, support or secondary damage dealer position./[quote]
Except you're still wrong and making things up. A (single) Merlin was on the team, but he did not buff her outside her own buffs until after said turn with Merlin's first skill. Just because she can relatively self sustain doesn't mean she's the star or main damage dealer. It just happened that the ACTUAL main damage dealer's cards weren't showing up.
So you're now implying that she can't even perform decently? Your credibility on evaluating units is plummeting faster by the minute.A unit who isn't a dedicated support who isn't a Merlin-tier support still can perform decently if their kit's set up right. News at 11, back to you.
Of course not. But that's where we differ. You seem to only look at a single role at a time, and if they aren't broken at that then they're bad. I look at how easily they can switch between roles on the fly. Both Nero Bride and Ereshkigal can do that amazingly well.Rather I'm evaluating her on more aspects than just main damage dealer (see above as I made a correction in how to approach this situation for calling the roles) since she seems to be able to perform as such. You don't tell me that you only see Nero Bride as pure damage dealer and evaluated her as such as well, right? In short, what she can do, where she can fit, how well or not well she will perform in each and every scenario has to be evaluated if the kit and design allows for it.
So a 4-star Caster with no self-buffs, sub-9k attack before class modifier, and an AoE NP can be a main damage dealer now?That's to say, you don't evaluate Merlin as a main damage dealer since his kit doesn't allow for it but you do for Cas Gil since he can be slotted in that way (albeit not as great as a dedicated one).
Except Caster Gil's buffs are all team, so it makes more sense for him to provide complimentary damage rather than "focusing on boosting him to the max".It's a plus that they can be a unit can do multiple roles but it's also a minus if, say, we aren't really making much focus on that Servant over someone else. IE: Using Cas Gil's Art only to boost other Servant's NP gauge rather than focusing on boosting Cas Gil's NP gauge to the max.
But regardless, your standard of evaluation is obviously skewed in a way that doesn't account for secondary attackers/pseudo supports, so there's no point in arguing further. What I'm more focused on now is what would be her best CE, since it feels a bit too "obvious" for the new Rin CE to be the best for her.
Don't do this to yourself, GDB.
This reminds me why I had mana in my ignore list for a while. Tons of numbers, but weak arguments.
I'm done with arguing with him now, and am focused on trying to figure out which CE functions best for her so I can figure out what to try to get to level 100 first.
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