Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[G-Man]

Not sure I like it that they're establishing Holmes as the detective. Feels like this violates Knox's Eighth more than having Gudako being the detective. Not like it matters all that much because the whole issue of using Stheno + Euryale to represent two characters that may or may not be twins is already a really cheap trick on the part of the author when there are several other female Servants that could be used to represent Harriet and would fit the basic requirements for a member of the Violet family.

Except that completely misses the whole point about Guda's biggest problem being his altered perceptions. This isn't a complicated mystery and it was never meant to be. It can't be because it's made so your average mobile game player can conceivably solve it. The 'gimmick', as it were, is that we are trying to solve the mystery through the eyes of someone who is essentially hallucinating so that the other characters' true appearances are hidden from us.

You can complain about it being a cheap trick, but we basically have this trick explained to us from the very beginning, and have it all but spelled out that our altered perceptions are our biggest obstacle to solving the crime.

If anything should be called unfair, it's that cheap interlude with the shadowy figure talking about how no one ever suspects children. That was apparently a red herring, and a rather unfair one too given we readers would have no reason to assume the writer would just throw in a scene of no real consequence to the plot, told from a mysterious figure's point of view, just to distract us from actual relevant information.

Edit: Seems I derped and the shadowy figure is Cain, but it still feels like a needless copout to trick others. You could take out the Cain subplot and later confrontation, and the story loses nothing.

[rxrx]

I guess the difficulty can't be too hard since many on twitter are suspecting Dorothy and some even miss the fact that Eve and Juliet are non-identical twins while Harriet is likely the mom.

[G-Man]

I guess the difficulty can't be too hard since many on twitter are suspecting Dorothy and some even miss the fact that Eve and Juliet are non-identical twins while Harriet is likely the mom.

Your saying it can't be too difficult because people are failing to pick up on clues and choosing the wrong suspect?

[Oz1337]

Frankly, the biggest problem I had with this story is right at this last section. One of the things that the Knox's Commandments say, and I frankly agree, is that "The detective is bound to declare any clues which he may discover".

And this is exactly what Holmes is not doing by not saying who was the adult that met the kids. It becomes quite frustrating when the characters in a story know about something, but decide to go "Oh no, I'm not telling you yet". Heck, this was something that we could have easily known by simply asking "Who was the adult?" to the kid, but of course that would have made the whole mystery too easy to solve. Witholding information to the reader when it's easily available is the lazy way of making a mystery harder to solve.

[rxrx]

Your saying it can't be too difficult because people are failing to pick up on clues and choosing the wrong suspect?

At least not for the first time this kind of stuff is introduced. Maybe it can be harder next time, but for the first case, this is pretty good in terms of difficulty and mixing in detective stuff and the unique features of FGO's characterization. I mean it is a neat trick when MC ask Raikou for alibi while addressing her like how he does in Chaldea, confusing her.

[Lily Emilio]

Holmes not saying anything is exactly his character tho. If he breaks his character trait that has been established ever since he's in FGO just to follow the Knox rules, then it's just as bad.

[Iceblade44]

Frankly, the biggest problem I had with this story is right at this last section. One of the things that the Knox's Commandments say, and I frankly agree, is that "The detective is bound to declare any clues which he may discover".

And this is exactly what Holmes is not doing by not saying who was the adult that met the kids. It becomes quite frustrating when the characters in a story know about something, but decide to go "Oh no, I'm not telling you yet". Heck, this was something that we could have easily known by simply asking "Who was the adult?" to the kid, but of course that would have made the whole mystery too easy to solve. Witholding information to the reader when it's easily available is the lazy way of making a mystery harder to solve.

Knox's commandments aren't strict rules, but just guidelines. Knox himself broke a couple of those rules himself a couple time. A story shouldn't be restricted by such things. But what Is important about what Knox said was that it was intentionally brought up. So it's a plot point by playing on expectations. Thats what I think they are doing

[Oz1337]

Holmes not saying anything is exactly his character tho. If he breaks his character trait that has been established ever since he's in FGO just to follow the Knox rules, then it's just as bad.

You can say it's his character, but I'm judging this story as a mystery story. And this is something I don't like seeing in mystery stories.

It's more of the fact of "I'm here to solve a mystery, not try to read the detective's mind" that makes me agree with Knox at least in that commandment. Others I don't agree so much.

[Reign]

This event has made me care more about Juliet than I ever did about Stheno.

[rxrx]

The common accepted fact is Juliet is cute and lovely while Steno is not.

[Lily Emilio]

You can say it's his character, but I'm judging this story as a mystery story. And this is something I don't like seeing in mystery stories.

It's more of the fact of "I'm here to solve a mystery, not try to read the detective's mind" that makes me agree with Knox at least in that commandment. Others I don't agree so much.

Well it's just your preference then. Because I basically feel like Watson in the books where he gets pissed alot about Holmes not telling anything in many cases until much later. FGO Holmes is pretty accurate to how I saw him in the books and I love it.

[rxrx]

Well it's just your preference then. Because I basically feel like Watson in the books where he gets pissed alot about Holmes not telling anything in many cases until much later. FGO Holmes is pretty accurate to how I saw him in the books and I love it.

He is missing Watson in FGO, and the new chief fits in just nicely.

[Iceblade44]

Well it's just your preference then. Because I basically feel like Watson in the books where he gets pissed alot about Holmes not telling anything in many cases until much later. FGO Holmes is pretty accurate to how I saw him in the books and I love it.

The best bits right now is how Holmes is constantly referencing Watson's reaction to his false death to everyone's present reaction.

[Sesto]

Juliet pseudo-Servant when

[Trubo]

The whole shtick of the mystery was about not letting the Servants appearances affect your judgement when determining the truth. Stheno and Euryale being 'twins' was the entire point. I really don't get why you're so caught up on this Trubo.

stuff

I don't know how many times I have to say something to the effect of "this is bad/lazy writing" to get that point across. Also, Holmes posed whether there is a reason for the various characters to be represented by specific Servants, not that we should completely dissociate the characters from their respective Servants.

This shutting off of the superficial consciousness is not sleep... it seems that it is impossible for you not to doze off.
---Mister Guda. Here is another piece of advice from me.
From what we discussed just now, whether there is meaning in having Morris replaced with Mordred, ponder it well.
That was an error that occurred so that Mordred's form could be assigned to Morris's rough and wild nature.
It can be said to be the gap between the knowledge you originally had, and the events that are currently transpiring in the transmission.
Therefore, there may be other such errors.
Listen well. You cannot believe in what you see. Do not forget that, ever.
Anyway, you must think and act carefully. When you fall into the dream, we are unable to help you.
That dream may be reality for someone, and while viewing that dream, you become that "someone".
I do not mean to frighten you, but we do not know what will happen if you die over there.
Alright. First, obtain information from an objective perspective. All deductions begin from there, after all---

Is there a possibility of making further errors? Sure, Holmes admits as much, and it's why "who is the mother?" is even an issue to begin with. But at the end of the day, there should be some story-related reason as to why the characters are represented by specific Servants. It could very well end up being that, because they're fraternal twins, Juliet's physical characteristics more strongly represent her mother than her father, which would support Harriet being the mother. However, nothing in the text has alluded to this whatsoever, so I'm hesitant to say that Harriet is the mother simply because it's an error to assume that Juliet and Harriet are twins because they're represented by the only Servants we have that are twin siblings.

[rxrx]

Trubo, it is explained that it is a defensive mechanism on Guda's brain which sub the servants that have identical qualities as the people he is encountering in the shell of Juliet's friend.

In addition, clues are littered around trying to either lead us or tell us Harriet is Juliet's mom while Eve is the twin sister.

Other than the way dad and Juliet speak to her, notice that Eve uses 'watashi' as a pronoun and the trick is when Guda asks about oka-sama's alibi, thinking that she is the mom, she is confused, and says her mom is in bed, instead of using 'ha-ha' which we know Raikou the servant does when talking to her 'children'. Aaron asking if he had flirt with Juliet is also another obvious hint.

[neveron]

Trubo, it is explained that it is a defensive mechanism on Guda's brain which sub the servants that have identical qualities as the people he is encountering in the shell of Juliet's friend.

In addition, clues are littered around trying to either lead us or tell us Harriet is Juliet's mom while Eve is the twin sister.

Other than the way dad and Juliet speak to her, notice that Eve uses 'watashi' as a pronoun and the trick is when Guda asks about oka-sama's alibi, thinking that she is the mom, she is confused, and says her mom is in bed, instead of using 'ha-ha' which we know Raikou the servant does when talking to her 'children'. Aaron asking if he had flirt with Juliet is also another obvious hint.

Also, the bit where Juliet says that she and her sister are non-identical twins and doesn't think that they're all that similar.

[Sesto]

I don't know how many times I have to say something to the effect of "this is bad/lazy writing" to get that point across. Also, Holmes posed whether there is a reason for the various characters to be represented by specific Servants, not that we should completely dissociate the characters from their respective Servants.

But at the end of the day, there should be some story-related reason as to why the characters are represented by specific Servants.

"Listen well. You cannot believe in what you see. Do not forget that, ever." is pretty significant because the only reason you (and Gudao, and Mashu) are assuming they're sisters is because they're being represented by two sisters. Even the introduction goes into this.

Ladies and gentlemen, have you ever had the experience of seeing faces in the patches on a ceiling, the texture of a wall, or in the stains on a desk?

...Oh, you have? That is good. It is because people are able to perceive meaning even between two entirely unrelated objects.

Well, putting it bluntly, it is a mistake, an illusion. Trouble arising from an misunderstanding due to preconceived bias, if you may.

Besides, the story isn't over. We still don't know Harriet's actual motive, so maybe it's related to why she chosen to be Euryale. It's not bad writing just because you don't like it.

[rxrx]

Reminds me of Thunder Rain if Harriet decides to kill the Goldie kids to avoid incest, or to direct the marriage to Cain so the Violets can have the advantage.

[Nikiri]

I think the motive is that Harriet really cares for Juliet, so she decided to free her from this duty.