No, they aren't. They're Wraiths.Originally Posted by Trubo
EDIT: Except possibly King Hassan.
No, they aren't. They're Wraiths.
EDIT: Except possibly King Hassan.
Last edited by Deathhappens; July 13th, 2018 at 11:23 AM.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Good answer
Spoiler:
Wandering on internet
To be exact, they are wraiths who are Heroic Spirit Candidates.
Exactly. In theory, they're all competing in "Will the REAL Hassan-il-Sabbah step up?" for the Throne. Except the spot is maybe taken by Gramps already. And maybe if one of them wins a HGW he might make himself a Heroic Spirit using his original name (Cursed Arm's plan). Maybe.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Which we don't know the exact process on how those records are relevant. We did not know if Moon Cell use those to build the servants or anything else.
Except that both sentences is also true because Moon Cell used those data it recorded as a sort of certificate to have a stable connection to the throne, which the extella statement literally stated. That's how it used the data to summon servants.In order for both of those sentences to be true, there have to be Servants summoned by the Moon Cell that are NOT Heroic Spirits (the definition of which is "recorded on the Throne of Heroes").
This is you making things up. Just because your head feel that Armstrong is unlikely to be a heroic spirit doesn't mean it is a fact. Do I also have to remind you that Archer from Extra IS from the throne despite the fact that he made contract with Moon Cell which means Moon Cell had every data on him recorded?And what do you know, we have a perfect example of a soul that was summoned on the Moon Cell as a Servant and yet is unlikely to be recorded on the Throne of Heroes.
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Doesn't matter, eirei is being used here as a blanket term for servants, like 100 other times it is being used that way.
stuffs
Nasu had always intended the Moon Cell record to be completely the same as Throne record way back.
the records are the same, it overlaps that is practically the same thing, bla bla bla
i could bring up this one discussion between mizu and me in regards to universe of awareness and our speculation of how its connected to why the records are the same, if need be
The thing is tho you have to question where they are? Because they still receive records from summoning and the fact they can be summoned is also something. After rereading about there circumstances it says they haven't properly scended to the throne. Note the word properly. Most likely they are there but they don't count as a HS.
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
Thank you.
Spoiler:
Then maybe you should be saying "we don't know" rather "yeah, that's how it is".
That's not what the text you posted states.
And this is you making stuff up, not me. Your interpretation is no more or less valid than mine, unless you actually have something to back it up.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
No, that's what we don't know back then, until Extella.
Have your eyes checked. It stated that Moon Cell has a stable connection with Throne because of it recording shit. if it wasn't for those same records, it can't have a connection to summon eireis.That's not what the text you posted states.
I did not. And I don't have to explain because it is a fact. Eirei is a blanket, interchangeable term.And this is you making stuff up, not me. Your interpretation is no more or less valid than mine, unless you actually have something to back it up.
Also, thx castor, throw that in this guy's face.
https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2004/
A hero that becomes eternal in people's minds is no longer human after their death, and is promoted to another form of existence.
Humans who bring about miracles, save people, and achieve great deeds, are called heroes even after their death.
After being so called, they are promoted to heroic spirits after their death and become guardians of humanity.
It doesn't matter whether these people existed in reality or only in stories.
It is people's minds that create a hero.
People's wishes that "this is how things should be" give them form and set them up as real.
Authenticity does not matter.
They can have form as long as they have fame as a legend and people have faith.
The ultimate ideal humans have created, the greatest human people have created.
These are the heroes, the heroic spirits.I don't remember this mentioned for the actual Hassans. They are collectively the Heroic Spirit: Hassan. Cursed Arm wanted to be his own individual HS in HF, and whatever extra info we got about him and the other Hassans in Camelot that I can't remember off hand.
https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20289/
https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20370/
Kojirou is definitely a wraith summoned in place of the HS Sasaki Kojirou, but he is still filling in the role of the HS Sasaki Kojirou. This is why he'll never get stronger even if he boosts his fame a la his interlude early on in FGO, as the nameless farmer is not Sasaki Kojirou despite being the closest thing that can match Sasaki Kojirou."……Fufu. Oh, I wondered what sort of face you had, but you had none to begin with.
You didn't hide your face, but wore the mask to make people think a face lay beneath it. Such a disappointment."
"GiGirl, you
"You lost your face and name, but you still wanted eternity? …But how unfortunate. If you seek eternity, you should've sought to live forever like my grandfather.
The Holy Grail can't go back into the past and regain your name."
"Disappear, old man of the mountain. You're nothing but an assassin. You can't become the one and only Hassan."
"Gi, giaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Even his death cry is swallowed by the shadow.
The white skulled assassin is swallowed by the girl's shadow.
It's in Fate/side material True Assassin's dictionary entry.
Because he is merely one of many wraiths (Heroic Spirit candidates) swarming around the name “Assassin,” his basic parameters are low.
If you actually read what I wrote, you would note that I'm not disputing that the Moon Cell has the same records as the Throne of Heroes or that the reason it can connect to the Throne of Heroes to summon Heroic Spirits is that it has those same records. I'm saying that it doesn't state these are the ONLY records it holds (it categorically isn't, because the Throne records Heroes of humanity whereas the Moon Cell records literally everything). Thus it is entirely possible for it to summon Servants that aren't on the Throne and nothing you've posted so far says otherwise.
I could also note that your aggressiveness on what is a relatively simple difference of interpretation is unbecoming, but this is pretty much exemplary of your typical Nasuverse discussion, so whatever.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
I won't dabble into the Fate/Extra stuff but the Hassans not being Heroic Spirits because they are all wraiths who share the same true name has always been their thing Trubo, I don't know what you're on about.
But the quote makes it that isn't the case. Even if the Moon Cell records more stuff on other things in general. In terms of Servants they are one and the same. What the Moon Cell can summon is in the throne and vice-versa
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
Bit late, but see Mizukume's and castor's posts.
Other than that Servants are defined as being copies of a Heroic Spirit. An entity can't be a Servant without the HS it's representing existing on the Throne of Heroes.
They are HS by virtue of being Hassan. They aren't unique enough to be a HS without that moniker, but they are still summoned as Servants representing the HS Hassan.
The quote specifically says that, in order to summon a Heroic Spirit in the Moon Cell, you connect to the Throne of Heroes. (Although it doesn't say that's THE ONLY WAY to summon a Heroic Spirit, but anyway).
I'm arguing that the Moon Cell can also summon Servants that aren'tRecorded in the Throne of HeroesHeroic Spirits
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
But they are said to be wraiths directly, they are lesser spirits than a normal Heroic Spirit.
They are maybe/probably in the Throne under the Hassan folder, but they are candidates, not full Heroic Spirits. That's why they are weaker too.
Its kinda unlikely
HGW is, even on moon, about summoning Heroic Spirit and go fight each other
Hypothetically speaking, say Armstrong is not HS and is summoned as a Servant.
Whats even the point
Its too complicated without serving any real purpose
Armstronf being a Servant not derived from HS just feels unlikely and unnecessarily complicated compared to Armstrong is HS to begin with.
Tho i personally feel this could be just a running gag they went with and keep on keeping it to mess with readers.
I'm talking about Castor' s quote.
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
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