Thread: Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

  1. #58301
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Look, I totally sympathize with the Hussite cause, and I totally get where you're coming from, but personally I'd approach it via the breakdown of Jeanne's Ruler persona. At the start, she'd be pure Saint Jeanne sent to confront the heretics because she was told they were hurting innocent people. However, as you yourself said, she would have to reconcile her faith with the ugly realities of the Catholic Church at the time, and her facade would be gradually worn away, transitioning her from Ruler Jeanne to some sort of Archer Jeanne, or perhaps showing hidden depths in Ruler Jeanne. Even in Apo, Ruler was rather comfortable with the violence around her, and I don't doubt there's room in her Ruler self for some calculated ruthlessness. As they say, beware the nice ones.

    Also, were the Hussites really any worse than their opponents from Germany? I personally think not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
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    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  2. #58302
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Ratman's Avatar
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    Just because they were forced to steal, burn, conscript peasants and women and use child soldiers does not make them not thieves, killers, raiders and slavers. They are still a pretty cool precedent in military history about how if everybody in the country is on board you can totally make peasant uprising work, and win against all, but the historical lesson is that it will cost the country all that it has to carry it out. I could point to Afghanistan and stuff.

    Since I live here and my dad is a historian, I'll add a little bonus, not really relevant to this theoretical scenario: It's actually pretty likely, according to how fast everything came together, that the Hussite Wars have been prepared by Žižka and some of his allies long before the entire Sigismund stuff went down, and the death of Hus (and implicit betrayal by the king-to-be) was just an excuse to unite folk. It's pretty well possible that they were looking to hit the empire while it was dealing with its three popes, and the council that united the faith again (having Hus as side program) meant that it was the last chance for them to do so before the west got its shit together. By the time Prokop the Bald took over, it was all about the Hussite religion, of course.

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    honestly the real reason I want Avenger Žižka is for Big Boss jokes

  3. #58303
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    Just because they were forced to steal, burn, conscript peasants and women and use child soldiers does not make them not thieves, killers, raiders and slavers. They are still a pretty cool precedent in military history about how if everybody in the country is on board you can totally make peasant uprising work, and win against all, but the historical lesson is that it will cost the country all that it has to carry it out. I could point to Afghanistan and stuff.

    Since I live here and my dad is a historian, I'll add a little bonus, not really relevant to this theoretical scenario: It's actually pretty likely, according to how fast everything came together, that the Hussite Wars have been prepared by Žižka and some of his allies long before the entire Sigismund stuff went down, and the death of Hus (and implicit betrayal by the king-to-be) was just an excuse to unite folk. It's pretty well possible that they were looking to hit the empire while it was dealing with its three popes, and the council that united the faith again (having Hus as side program) meant that it was the last chance for them to do so before the west got its shit together. By the time Prokop the Bald took over, it was all about the Hussite religion, of course.

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    honestly the real reason I want Avenger Žižka is for Big Boss jokes
    Never heard that one before, but makes sense, since yeah, mobilization was fast for the time. They probably did expect Hus to not come back. Also, totally understand the need for Big Boss jokes in this case.

    P.S. Cool that you actually live there and have a historian dad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  4. #58304
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    That'd mean staining the premise of Ruler Jeanne as the pure and blameless saint of Mark Twain, who did her job without prejudice, did not doubt her purpose, and accepted her fate of a martyr without complaints.

    Dealing with Hussites is much tougher theologically, because she'd be inevitably explained the background of it in detail, and would have to deal with the moral implications of it. Thing being that the Hussites were pretty much totally justified in their stance against the Church, but their methods were destructive and ruthless to the point of making them pretty much professional banditry down the line. Of course, if not for that, they wouldn't have repelled four crusades, but fact stands that the central Europe missed out on renaissance and had its population reduced by more than half by just how savage the war was. By the end of it nobody in Bohemia tended to fields because everyone needed to take up arms, and so they got food by raiding Germany and Austria, wherin nobody tended to the fields because what's the point, right?

    So Jeanne would have to reconcile the purity of her faith with the concept of a Church itself. While dealing with these jackasses was probably the right thing to do, it wouldn't have escalated to this point if the Church wasn't arrogant, and all in all, the result of resolution with force was inevitable: except that the Empire did not expect to actually lose, over and over and over, holding onto sheer petty arrogance until the end.

    It presents a deep historical conundrum to a character that is shallow - or rather, pure, a saint, an icon, more than a real person. By having her deal with it, she would have to become not shallow, and this would pretty much make our ol' Ruler Jeanne a different character entirely. So, I propose making her yet another character: Jeanne as the girl who became a warrior, who is not a saint for all the carnage she wrought, but who is not a cartoonish villain either. Jeanne as the person she most likely really was in the first place.

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    Zizka himself wasn't very big on religion at all, by the way, but it was a pretty helpful thing for him to unite people - and he certainly did hate the Church. Much rather than being a religious leader, he bore the spite of folk towards the Church on his shoulders. His main class is obviously Rider and I don't think he was physically strong enough to be anything else, but he'd definitely qualify for Avenger, imo.
    Can I just say I would gladly shank someone if we could get this? Like, this would be an amazing scenario. Also, it is indeed pretty cool that you're dad's a historian. Always been one of my favorite subjects and the points you brought up about what lead to the conflict were ones I hadn't heard before.

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    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Actually, a Servant Jan Hus would be nice. Probably would be a Ruler, Avenger, or even a Saver.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  6. #58306
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One rxrx's Avatar
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    There are quite a lot of issues that are interesting but sensitive that games will not touch anyway. For FGO, I think it will make a much more interesting story where it is the Native Americans vs America and they throwing at you that how the latter are invaders and the former are avenging themselves, or maybe even a singularity set in late Qing where the Eight Nation alliance pillage and burn in China and the singularity has the Chinese winning and must be fixed, meaning you have to aid the Eight Nation alliance in committing all their atrocities. That will be more interesting.

  7. #58307
    O Beast of CaerbannogAAAAARRGH!!? castor212's Avatar
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    rando question
    who is voicing salazar in you guys' head when reading the story

    i use nakamura yuichi's for some reason
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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six
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    They will never do it

    The closest we got was Geronimo and that was kind of half assed

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    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    No one, because I'm illiterate.

    I'll guess Mamoru Miyano though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  10. #58310
    Don't @ me if your fanfic doesn't even have Shirou/Illya shipping k thnx ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    I'll guess Mamoru Miyano though.
    I'm stealing this headcanon, BTW.
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  11. #58311
    The Plesioth Hip Check Of Life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Not nearly enough SUDDEN YELLING for Miyano, imo.
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  13. #58313
    Summer Dioscuri Dream Sandstorm77's Avatar
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    In terms of the proposed ending i’m leaning towards either arash or salieri at the moment. Ryouma’s wasn’t really that interesting and i having an off screen guda be the culprit just isn’t good.



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  14. #58314
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One R.Lock's Avatar
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    Body double is such a cliche that Arash's version is a major no-no for me.
    Alter is adorable for trying to get Gudako into the movie and projecting her feelings towards Jeanne on Gabriella, but off-screen culprit is no good. There's no build-up for that either. She needs another time loop to figure out a good plot.
    Ryouma's version is more of a foundation for others to build upon. It provides answers to red herrings and offers some new ideas, but it won't make the story exciting by itself.
    As for Salieri, I don't see how that development would tie up all the loose threads. Although, it'd make sense to have him be the closing POV as the actual case started with Antonio and Eris.

    However, I'd say that, personally, I'd have used Ryouma's version to smoothen the plot progression.

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    And Tristan's version is just ayy lmao. Pardon, but I have no words. I should sick Melt on this damn bird and slice Failnaught to pieces.


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    世はまさにパンテオン Comun's Avatar
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    I really liked Jalter’s idea for Gabriela but I’m really not feeling the Zero Escape ending. I’m torn between Ryouma and Tristan now. Salieri’s inconclusive plot is easily the worst idea, and everything good about Arash’s idea is already included in Ryouma’s.

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    Tristan’s pathetic, desperate, attempt to turn the tables around with a potentially groundbreaking shitty plot twist got my attention.
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    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One R.Lock's Avatar
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    I need Bedi edit of o kawaii koto


  19. #58319
    Don't @ me if your fanfic doesn't even have Shirou/Illya shipping k thnx ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    Here's hoping the novel not only has THE TRUE version, but also some alternative endings, since some of these are distinct enough to merit further exploration.
    McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
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  20. #58320
    死徒(上級)Greater Dead Apostle
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    I'm really curious about how the novel will approach the event's story as well. Maybe they decide to combine all versions into a single one or they find Murasaki's manuscript?

    For the event proper, I'm pretty torn on who to vote for. I kinda want to vote for Tristan for maximum comedy, but I also want to have my favs to get their time in the sun (Arash, Ryouma). Salieri's idea was intriguing in the direction he thought of for the ending and how it contextualizes the story from his character's perspective, but it does feel like it sidelines the cast in order to get his resolution across and nothing else. Which I suppose is what it's meant to do, since all of the choices are by design flawed so that they can be "equal" when we vote for them.

    My gut feeling is that JAlter and Tristan are going to be the front runners in this case (she's the only clear waifu option, he's the comedy pick) so I guess I should just go ahead and vote for who I like most since they are going to lose anyways!

    I do like that they went with the whole "there is no real mystery here, vote for who you like" this time round, rather than making it another mystery redux. Would like to get more of these votes down the line. Also pretty good that they made it in-game this time as well.
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