Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[Kamera]

it's subjective really. reading though ancient greek texts has more down-to-earth and well, organic, feel to it than most other myths.

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i don't know what possesses nasu (or whatever writing fate greek lore) when reading through hesiod's theogony to come up with ancient mechas

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if they ever really do research anyways

[Kelp24]

Hephaestus and Apollo's exchange was pretty human terms used aside

[Kamera]

Ah, yes, that's the term I'm looking for, humane. Greek gods are the most humane deities I've ever read.

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To make them into unfeeling robots feels really wrong

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but perhaps that's the point. we'll see.

[Deathhappens]

Greek mythology is not coherent and uniform AT ALL. Every single legend has 2-3 versions at least.

(Disregarding the fact that many of those versions of legends came from the Romans), that's exactly what 'organic' means. A mythology that grew up without the constraints of a rigid ecclessiarchy restricting what stories could and couldn't be told.

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In order for a mythology to not be "organic" it would have to have been fabricated and controlled by a specific group, which isn't true for...any mythology I can think off the top of my head, at least.

[Zurvan]

Wasnt it said somewhere that they begun as robos, then after defeat by sefar they needed another way to maintain themselves, getting closer to mankind and being influenced by them?

Then again even the robot Artemis retained some human feeling (jealousy)

[Half-Blood Master]

Ah, yes, that's the term I'm looking for, humane. Greek gods are the most humane deities I've ever read.

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To make them into unfeeling robots feels really wrong

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but perhaps that's the point. we'll see.

Iirc, there's a discussion about what constitutes a human-like behavior and personality, where Apollo kinda demeans the Greek gods by saying that they are just systems who are programmed to produce this personalities, and therefore their emotions aren't real and they are just machines; to which Orion retorts that, if the system believes those feelings to be true, then they are indistinguishable from the "real" emotions who are naturally produced by humans. So it's kinda less about the gods being unfeeling machines and more about the boundaries between "machine" and "human" and how the Greek Gods can't help but feel despite being Machines at their core.

Totally understandable if that's not your cup of tea, tho.

[yokushi]

I'm quite sure that the whole greek gods as mecha comes from Z Mazinger.

[asterism42]

[fumei]

Wasnt it said somewhere that they begun as robos, then after defeat by sefar they needed another way to maintain themselves, getting closer to mankind and being influenced by them?

Then again even the robot Artemis retained some human feeling (jealousy)

Artemis has her jealousy, saves Chaldea out of her love for Orion, Heph makes jokes and basically hates Paris (I think it was?) and even explicitly points out being sad at one point.

They may be mechanical, but they're definitely not unfeeling.

[OverMaster]

I'd say it goes beyond the Greek gods being simply humane or human (not always exactly the same thing), it's that they used to be the most carnal pantheon around. When you look at it they were all moved by their lowest and rawest passions and whatever they wanted to do or take on a whim, they'd do or take it just as soon consequences be damned. Even Athena, who was supposed to incarnate logic and reasoning, would flip at the slightest provokation to her pride and start being a bitch just because. They were gluttons, lascivious, quick to anger and moved by emotion over reasoning for the most part, actually. They barely had any restraint because they didn't need to; they were the most powerful guys around and in their cosmology Might Makes Right, while Norse and Hindu deities at least had to face the consequences of their actions often. In the Greek myths mortals would take the toll instead.

That's... like the complete opposite of what we usually take for robotic, mechanical behavior, and while a good subversion of those cliches on what 'robotic' behavior is might prove being interesting if handled right, GO is probably not the best place to explore that, since not only the story has too many other things to juggle at once and Guda is a TERRIBLE viewpoint character to explore and question human condition, but because of the Character Development Glass Ceiling Syndrome GO has, where past a point any character becomes a self-repeating parody of themselves or one-note cypher (because they can't drift away from the player OR move too close either), which ultimately damages all of the Servants' character arcs once they join the gacha.

[Gold Experience]

And then there's Sakurai\Koyama-spawn

[fumei]

I'd say it goes beyond the Greek gods being simply humane or human (not always exactly the same thing), it's that they used to be the most carnal pantheon around. When you look at it they were all moved by their lowest and rawest passions and whatever they wanted to do or take on a whim, they'd do or take it just as soon consequences be damned. Even Athena, who was supposed to incarnate logic and reasoning, would flip at the slightest provokation to her pride and start being a bitch just because. They were gluttons, lascivious, quick to anger and moved by emotion over reasoning for the most part, actually. They barely had any restraint because they didn't need to; they were the most powerful guys around and in their cosmology Might Makes Right, while Norse and Hindu deities at least had to face the consequences of their actions often. In the Greek myths mortals would take the toll instead.

That's... like the complete opposite of what we usually take for robotic, mechanical behavior, and while a good subversion of those cliches on what 'robotic' behavior is might prove being interesting if handled right, GO is probably not the best place to explore that, since not only the story has too many other things to juggle at once and Guda is a TERRIBLE viewpoint character to explore and question human condition, but because of the Character Development Glass Ceiling Syndrome GO has, where past a point any character becomes a self-repeating parody of themselves or one-note cypher (because they can't drift away from the player OR move too close either), which ultimately damages all of the Servants' character arcs once they join the gacha.

LB5 so far at least has had the benefit of not limiting itself to Guda's viewpoint, as we're getting internal monologues from other characters (allies and adversaries alike) as well as straight narration scenes. It just reads way closer to a proper VN than anything FGO has done before, and according to Taiboo the script size for Atlantis was like 4 times as large as any other LB chapter so far, so they definitely went all out on story focus this time tbh, and it shows.

[Bobin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FGOGuide/co...es_section_15/

As the talk returns to the culture of Atlantis, Chiyome points out that Jason is pretty blasé about the gods for someone who lived in the Age of Gods. Still, he finds it convincing that the 12 Olympians are mechas, whether it’s in this Lostbelt or in Panhuman History, and says it’s because their thought patterns are too inhuman.

This surprises Mandricardo – the Greek gods were known for being very human, weren’t they?

Jason: “Oh, their motivations are totally human. But their habits, their conclusions, and their processes, they’re all out of sync with humans. There’s a theory that the Trojan War was a setup to reduce the increasing number of humans, after all.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/FGOGuide/co...es_section_11/

Jason: “…That’s because the gods are the gods.”

Gordolf: “Which means?”

Jason: “For us, the gods of Greece are whimsical, cruel, and at times, gracious with their blessings. Well, they’re irrational existences. But that irrationality of theirs is very much like humans.”

Orion: “…That’s right. For us, gods are always close to us. You can get acquainted with them, you can hate them, or--- you can love, and be loved, by them.”

They're definitely going somewhere with it.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I'd say it goes beyond the Greek gods being simply humane or human (not always exactly the same thing), it's that they used to be the most carnal pantheon around. When you look at it they were all moved by their lowest and rawest passions and whatever they wanted to do or take on a whim, they'd do or take it just as soon consequences be damned. Even Athena, who was supposed to incarnate logic and reasoning, would flip at the slightest provokation to her pride and start being a bitch just because. They were gluttons, lascivious, quick to anger and moved by emotion over reasoning for the most part, actually. They barely had any restraint because they didn't need to; they were the most powerful guys around and in their cosmology Might Makes Right, while Norse and Hindu deities at least had to face the consequences of their actions often. In the Greek myths mortals would take the toll instead.

That's... like the complete opposite of what we usually take for robotic, mechanical behavior, and while a good subversion of those cliches on what 'robotic' behavior is might prove being interesting if handled right, GO is probably not the best place to explore that, since not only the story has too many other things to juggle at once and Guda is a TERRIBLE viewpoint character to explore and question human condition, but because of the Character Development Glass Ceiling Syndrome GO has, where past a point any character becomes a self-repeating parody of themselves or one-note cypher (because they can't drift away from the player OR move too close either), which ultimately damages all of the Servants' character arcs once they join the gacha.

Tbf, Athena's most dickish moments are a result of Ovid's grudge against authority as a whole.

Also, about the Hindu gods in particular, not only do they suffer the consequences of their actions, but their more carnal aspects are specifically noted as abnormal and something that only happens when they are in contact with the human world. Otherwise, they are by definition elevated above such base instincts.

[OverMaster]

Of course, in actual Greek mythology being loved by a god would just mean another God if not a bunch of them would hate you and make your life impossible. Almost invariably, the god gunning at you would do a better job than the god trying to protect you.

So in that context, the line about being loved by the gods loses a lot of effectiveness.

[Bobin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FGOGuide/co...es_section_15/

You arrive at Perseis Island and beat some Atlantis Guards who were stationed there – they didn’t know you were coming so they weren’t on high alert. As for the labyrinth, you get the feeling that you won’t need to worry about getting attacked by the Minotauros. Charlotte wonders if you can use string to traverse it. Jason tells her that Ariadne’s thread is special – it’s an absolutely unbroken string made by mixing in the prayers of a pure maiden.

Charlotte: “Then, if I pray, Ariadne’s thread can be made… right?”

Jason: “So you’re calling yourself a pure maiden, huh…”

Charlotte: “If you’re going there, then you want to see blood, hm?”

Jason goes “No comment” and retreats. Achilles tells Charlotte that it’s probably impossible for her. Ariadne fervently offered prayer for the sake of her beloved Theseus. That is why Theseus could exit the labyrinth with that thread.

Achilles: “It’s through the power of love.”

Jason: “I’d like to call it nonsense, but love does indeed have a power (curse) to it… all the more so in Greece.”

Jason has seen real shit. It's noted that even heroes who are 'blessed' by gods can have their received affection also be regarded as little different than a curse.

[pinetree]

The one saying that is Orion so I think he's quite aware of that. I don't see how it loses its effectiveness.

[LJ3]

They've done that from the beginning, calling it a blessing/curse for Godhand.

[mami-kouga]

Knowing Nasu it's probably just a bunch of references to Sefar cuz she died in Sahara. Like how her body became the basis for the gods and the Void Cells affecting local spirits bla bla like the Mesoamerican gods.

...huh, I don't even care about how Nasu has interpretation other religions besides a brow raise and yet the thought of this viscerally annoys me

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Well as aside from technicalities like Sheba I'm probably not going to see any non-egyptian African servant in the game (though Nzambi from requiem does exist even if she's not from my Homeland) so I shouldn't bother myself over it.

[Kelp24]

remember how Atlas is in the wrong side of Africa?