Wtf I want a Flat Earther magus in the Nasuverse now. That’d be hilarious lol.
Wtf I want a Flat Earther magus in the Nasuverse now. That’d be hilarious lol.
While Kiara herself is... concerning, to say the least, she's actively defending our mind from threats as well. She's made it clear that she wants to see us fall, but also wants to play hero and to see us power through. She basically wants us to fail in spite of everyone's best efforts. So she's been protecting us from threats as well, as shown in Servant Summer Camp and Tokugawa Labyrinth.Originally Posted by InsertNameHsre
That's pretty much how this whole thing came up. He's not a big Fate fan, but he knows I am so he listens to me ramble about it. When I started talking about the magical system he got really into it and started doing the whole "Make a Magus" thing. He thought the Illuminati as a concept worked really well in this universe, and thought of the idea of using the Flat Earth as a Foundation. He asked me a bunch of questions about how the mechanics worked and I answered as best I could but I wasn't sure about a lot of stuff.
He's also the one who came up with this Deep Blue concept, though I fleshed it out a lot, as well as the Beast VII in my Beast lineup that I haven't posted quite yet.
Last edited by TresserT; February 23rd, 2023 at 07:59 PM.
That last part is what made me very iffy about Nasu's framing, especially since he also went ahead and made the claim that Moctezuma II, the emperor who expanded Aztec power to its zenith, was secretly an iconoclast who hated human sacrifice and also just wanted to learn from Spanish culture. Not to mention, the message somewhat rings hollow with all the Ancient Aliens-like conspiracy theories about Central Americans that Nasu incorporated into the lore. Nothing like not respecting a culture like implying it was all aliens and that these people are all part alien.
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Yeah, but I still think it falls flat.
I'm sure Nasu must hate the greeks too since their culture was made from alien robots.
None of the things Aztecs ever did was given to them by aliens. The aliens are what allowed the gods to exist, but what you should take from this is not "they owe everything to them and were useless otherwise", but that the mythology wouldn't be real without the aliens. It sounds like you're just actively trying to see it as negatively as you can because you've seen alien conspiracy documentaries before that say Aztecs wouldn't be able to do anything without ayla maos, but this ain't it, take from it what is actually there, and not what you preconceive.
We saw in the El-Melloi anime that the Animusphere magecraft system uses an Earth-centered solar system model instead of sun-centered, so a flat-earther mage wouldn't be too far off from that.
The mecha-Olympians aren't so bad because Nasu more or less made that up, and otherwise, whoever wrote Atlantis took great pains to tell us that the other Greek gods came from various different sources, just like how it happened IRL. It certainly helps that there aren't centuries of pseudo-historical, racist conspiracy theories attributing the inventions of the Greeks to either ancient hyperboreans or to aliens. Without all that baggage, it's easier to swallow.
However, with the Mesoamerican worldbuilding, it is entirely based off of these theories which are racist to the core, and even without factoring in the Ancient Aliens bit and the idea that all Central Americans were partly composed of Malla, it still reeks of eco-Indian stereotypes that could not be said to have applied to the Aztecs of all people.
Sounds like an american take poisoned by their popular media, when the reality is Nasu just thinks aliens are cool.
Like, there's actual people out there saying Aztecs and Egyptians and whatnot should not have been able to do anything at all and aliens must exist, which is BS, but this just isn't the case here, just because aliens are involved.
Last edited by Kirishima; February 23rd, 2023 at 09:13 PM.
The Ancient Aliens stuff is truly international, and Nasu has already taken a bunch from Western pop culture.
Mhmm, yes. Astute. Your ability to read things through the simplistic lens of the Racism litmus test once again proves ever so illuminating.
I just think "there are people out there that are racist and don't believe ancient civilizations were capable of anything, therefore aliens exist is their argument, and since this writer incorporated aliens in his fictional works in multiple backstories, therefore, he too is racist" is way too simplistic and not the right way to view things at all, it just sounds like you're looking for racism when aliens are mentioned, specially when during no point in the narrative is there any comment saying these people were stupid and could not have done anything without alien bacteria helping them.
Yeah, I may not have been specific enough with what my actual problem was. Using Ancient Aliens as a source of worldbuilding is annoying, but the real problem is the eco-Indian stuff, like Kirei saying the real reason they didn't domesticate large beasts of burden is because they loved nature too much and didn't grow too much due to an instinctive understanding that they shouldn't grow beyond the jungle.
While that doesn't exactly inspire confidence in me (especially given how much trouble she caused in Servant Summer Camp), at least we have a hard counter to her in the form of Kama just in case that happens (and her attempts at corrupting us post-Tokugawa Labyrinth have either failed or outright backfired on her, so she's much less of a threat), to say nothing of BB and the Sakura Five (give or take two).
That said, who might the other candidates for "the Count" be? While this is a long shot. I'm considering the possibility that it may be the Count of St. Germain. He's well known for using many names and titles over his lifetime (and intersects with Theosophy quite a bit) and has been depicted as a time traveler and a magic user in other media. True, he doesn't quite fit the Avenger class (or at least not unless the writers get creative), but who said he had to be an Avenger at all? If anything, if he's a Ruler that would fit the pattern of half the Apostles being Alter Egos and the other half being Rulers (minus U-Olga, whose originally classification as a Beast is looking increasingly dubious).
It also helps that Saint-Germain has already appeared in Fate/strange fake, so we have a blueprint for what he might be like. Still, for not having shown up 'till now despite supposedly being summoned to help Chaldea? I think he's not the one.
"Romani" called each Apostles by epithets that describe them clearly. Detective(Holmes), Professor(Moriarty), Avatar of Malice(Douman), Atlas Slayer(Muramasa), Priest(Rasputin). The Count is most likely Dantes, and it's rather telling when back in Shinjuku Guda pointed out that he hated his given name and instead prefer his title of Count of Monte Cristo.
Also, that reminds me back in Mictlan's prologue where Olga claimed to have defeated seven Grands, and she even dreamt about, yet it was never addressed throughout the chapter. I have a guess according to what we learnt.
It's actually a simulation for her trial in order to be resurrected, like Wodime did. And it also happened during her dream, which Dantes is heavily associated with. She's merely dreaming of things to come using her Clairvoyance-like ability that's possibly one of her Super Authorities.
Last edited by OnesFleetingGlory; February 23rd, 2023 at 10:19 PM.
I've studied the subject before- the fact of the matter is that in South America as a whole there weren't any animals other than llamas and their relatives which could've been domesticated. The Aztecs didn't even have those; while there's evidence of horses living in the North American continent before the Europeans arrived, I don't recall there being traces of their presence in Mexico and they went extinct long before the Aztec Empire was established. It's not that they chose not to grow too much, it's that they simply never had the resources needed to do so.
You forgot the Philosophy Magecraft which is a mix of all you list, with the diff between their AoG and modern version being one can gain more access to the dope stuffs. Their foundation is fused with the planet.
Even so, we can't yet rule out that the "Count" is a new character that we haven't seen yet. If it is Dantes, there's the further question of which Dantes it is- the one of the Prison Tower or the Chaldean one. We know they're distinct individuals despite their limited memory sharing, and since we've seen them in the same place together it can't just be one of them pretending to be the other.
It's equally likely that U-Olga's dream was a sort of wishful thinking, given that just one of those Grands (Tezcatlipoca) soundly defeated her and left her at a fraction of her normal strength. Unfortunately we have no information on what actually happened- Tezcatlipoca might have been able to explain things but we had more important matters on our hands at that time and never thought to ask.
Exactly my point, yet Nasu chooses to conveniently ignore this for...reasons? I also find the whole Central Americans have memories from the land of extinction and death thing to be either stupid or just sus.
It doesn't rule out the possibility of him having manipulated events in advance to ensure that they turned out in a specific way, however. If that's the case, then we'd have no way of even knowing he was working behind the scenes at all.
I always thought Tezcatlipoca simply ganked her while she was still getting her bearings. I don't think he could have beat her in a straight fight, especially because even without her heart, her lightning was enough to clear away his miasma.
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