Thread: Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

  1. #59341
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
    Wow... I am legit pissed at Douman now. We finally had a legit utopia, one we would actually have reason not to want to destroy, and he screwed it up before we could even get there.
    He gave us ally Pepe, so small victories

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rxrx View Post
    Yeah, you are so noble to throw away your comrade who looked up to you and have been through hell together for someone else just met. You would have common language with those emperors who remove their top and loyal officials after conquering the country.
    Honestly Mashu's appeal wore thin for me the longer time passes so I wouldn't mind trading her for a wolfman either. She can rest in the shadow border and stop traumatizing herself

  2. #59342
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    Why would he, who has no attachment to our world, fight for it when we find a world that he considers ‘better’? Why would he who gave up his own world not expect us to do the same? I mean sure we don’t have to kill him, but he has no reason to stick with us at that point.
    But he did stick with us despite all that, and he did help us because he felt Pan-Human History might have something better, correct?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  3. #59343
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    I'm not entirely convinced of the giant's sapiency or their worth as a species/children.
    Again, Skadi is a giant herself, and so is Loki, so they are definitely sapient unless Loki and Skadi are specifically freaks that are born with sapient while other giants are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    Why would he, who has no attachment to our world, fight for it when we find a world that he considers ‘better’? Why would he who gave up his own world not expect us to do the same? I mean sure we don’t have to kill him, but he has no reason to stick with us at that point.
    How would he know that world is better when it's impossible for him to compare the two until we revive our world and show it to him? And given the survival of the fittest dogma of his world, he'd be more likely to sit back and side with whomever wins (which would be us, thank you plot armor).

  4. #59344
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    I'm not entirely convinced of the giant's sapiency or their worth as a species/children.
    If Norse myth is anything to go by, then yes, and the difference between God and Giant is quite arbitrary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  5. #59345
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    If they're intelligent and eat humans, it kinda makes their case worse.

  6. #59346
    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    It's pretty shitty to off a shitton of people for the sake of your supposedly treasured loved ones but grab one or two that you like just to make the audience feel a little better. Isn't all this supposed to be worth it for them? Why are you saying that one or two people are special enough to be in your world when you're disposing of the rest? At that point you're Leff offering Matt a place in Goetia's utopia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    A part of me knows that Mash is going to get her powers back after she confronts whoever that Galahad Gudao met was, but a part of me also just thinks she should just retire from the whole servant thing. Just go to a nice little cottage and be depressed in peace (• ▽ •

  8. #59348
    Summer Dioscuri Dream Sandstorm77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
    How would he know that world is better when it's impossible for him to compare the two until we revive our world and show it to him? And given the survival of the fittest dogma of his world, he'd be more likely to sit back and side with whomever wins (which would be us, thank you plot armor).
    So just lie to him and let him feel the guilt of letting a better world go when he does get to our world and see it for himself? Even better.

    He didn’t choose to give up to us because our world is strong, he even called it weak. Not taking the bullet for us would even directly show how weak it is. He only did it because it what he heard about made him think it’s better than his.

    It still just show the inherent selfishness of our mission in the end.



    "An ideal is only an ideal after all. As long as you embrace that ideal, the friction with reality will continue to increase. So you will someday face reality and will have to pay for your compromises"



  9. #59349
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    It's pretty shitty to off a shitton of people for the sake of your supposedly treasured loved ones but grab one or two that you like just to make the audience feel a little better. Isn't all this supposed to be worth it for them? Why are you saying that one or two people are special enough to be in your world when you're disposing of the rest? At that point you're Leff offering Matt a place in Goetia's utopia.
    Because saving all of them is impossible, otherwise that's what we would do?

    I'm just saying, Paxti had no real attachment to his world beyond his already deceased mother, so there was no harm in extending the offer. It was never about lessening any guilt (never mind that Ivan himself said we didn't need to feel guilty because this whole unfair situation wasn't anyone's fault).

  10. #59350
    Hero of Charity GundamFSN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotonoha View Post
    LB4 world seemed like its only real problem was Arjuna and it would have been fine once he was gone

    mostly though the angle they have been going for has been less "this world is an utopia" and more "can you honestly say our world is less shitty than this though"
    Yeah, my impression so far has been wow this world is fucked up yo.

    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    And frankly, for all the shitty things in the world, none are as bad as 'you get eaten once you turn 25 or before then if you haven't spat out a baby'
    LB4 does this worse imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    Probably. Didn't want to use LB4 as an example since I'm a bit unclear on how the specifics of it work.
    Let's see,

    Basically, Arjuna's trying to clear a Majora Mask-esque game in its first 10 days cycle (eradication of all evil). When he finds that he's unsatisfied with the result on the 10th day he reloads his day 1 save file. Seems normal, right? But the thing here is, Arjuna uses a gameshark to modify the game to remove whatever things he felt unsatisfied with on his previous run (something that he deemed unnecessary and worthless) and also to save and modify all the worthy npc's memories every time he reloads his save file. This is the trick behind his genesis nuke, it's not that he destroy and reform the world, he just reset the world to day 1 all the while making adjustment to the people living in that world, such as dead people remains dead, retaining the people's memories or removing Asha's memories of her wonderful dog (Fuck you Arjuna).

    Tldr: Arjuna sucks at game.

    Why did I understand Jinako's jargon? Maybe because we both like Karna hue hue.
    Last edited by GundamFSN; June 20th, 2019 at 02:16 AM.


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  11. #59351
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    So just lie to him and let him feel the guilt of letting a better world go when he does get to our world and see it for himself? Even better.

    He didn’t choose to give up to us because our world is strong, he even called it weak. Not taking the bullet for us would even directly show how weak it is. He only did it because it what he heard about made him think it’s better than his.

    It still just show the inherent selfishness of our mission in the end.
    Would giving up and abandoning our world to destruction because we didn't want to dirty our hands be any less selfish?

    As for the issue with Paxti, if we did come across a real utopia (I'm not convinced we will, even in Wordime's Lostbelt), we would have a whole bunch of other problems besides whether or not he wants to live there. That's literally the kind of thing that the whole party would have to discuss.

    And then there's whether or not Paxti could even live in said utopia. It might be perfect except for religious dogma against wolfmen for all we know. Either way, we wouldn't have to kill him.

  12. #59352
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Well, even then, it was Douman who convinced him to reset at Day 10 as opposed to year 5000 or whatever. Also, fuck you Arjuna. What'd that dog ever do to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  13. #59353
    Don't @ me if your fanfic doesn't even have Shirou/Illya shipping k thnx ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    Thinking about AU Chaldea where Patxi is the team's designated sniper and survivalist, he gets to wield a Barrel Replica, and gets a fated showdown thingy with Orion and Artemis in LB5.

    I wouldn't call it wasted potential, but man, what if. What if.
    McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
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  14. #59354
    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    Of course it is, both for the player and for Gudao. If I can save at least one person, that makes me the good guy!

    It's the height of hypocrisy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Well, even then, it was Douman who convinced him to reset at Day 10 as opposed to year 5000 or whatever. Also, fuck you Arjuna. What'd that dog ever do to you?
    It was weak.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Well, even then, it was Douman who convinced him to reset at Day 10 as opposed to year 5000 or whatever. Also, fuck you Arjuna. What'd that dog ever do to you?
    It was weak.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  15. #59355
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    Of course it is, both for the player and for Gudao. If I can save at least one person, that makes me the good guy!

    It's the height of hypocrisy.

    - - - Updated - - -


    It was weak.
    Isn't that the point of UBW, though? As long as one person is saved, it's not wrong or pointless. In addition, for the player, it's more to see another POV about other LBs, perhaps.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But it wasn't evil...I thought he'd be all about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  16. #59356
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    Of course it is, both for the player and for Gudao. If I can save at least one person, that makes me the good guy!

    It's the height of hypocrisy.
    Except you are literally the only person saying that saving Paxti is about making us good (you'll note nowhere in my posts do I state that saving Paxti and extending the offer makes us heroes). Here we are talking about the story potential while you're trying to ascribe false motivations to us, which feels a lot more hypocritical to me.

  17. #59357
    Don't @ me if your fanfic doesn't even have Shirou/Illya shipping k thnx ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    Basically, Arjuna's trying to clear a Majora Mask-esque game in its first 10 days cycle (eradication of all evil). When he finds that he's unsatisfied with the result on the 10th day he reloads his day 1 save file. Seems normal, right? But the thing here is, Arjuna uses a gameshark to modify the game to remove whatever things he felt unsatisfied with on his previous run (something that he deemed unnecessary and worthless) and also to save and modify all the worthy npc's memories every time he reloads his save file. This is the trick behind his genesis nuke, it's not that he destroy and reform the world, he just reset the world to day 1 all the while making adjustment to the people living in that world, such as dead people remains dead, retaining the people's memories or removing Asha's memories of her wonderful dog (Fuck you Arjuna).

    Tldr: Arjuna sucks at game.

    Why did I understand Jinako's jargon? Maybe because we both like Karna hue hue.
    When you put it this way I can definitely see the Undertale vibes that Nasu might've taken as influence, although this chapter may've been conceptualized and written before he had that epiphanic experience with said indie title. Not like Nasu is unfamiliar to gamey concepts working their way into the worlds he writes, like /hollow's and Kagetsu Tohya's loops and how NG+-styled antics affect those on a narrative and meta level.
    McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
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  18. #59358
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Isn't that the point of UBW, though? As long as one person is saved, it's not wrong or pointless. In addition, for the player, it's more to see another POV about other LBs, perhaps.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But it wasn't evil...I thought he'd be all about that.
    LBs are, as an example, "Kill 9/10 people. Keep 1 alive." If you think you're not a mass murderer because you didn't slaughter all 10...

  19. #59359
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Why are we arguing about the Morality of hypothetically saving dog boy? We can't, he's dead. Even the. Saving him wouldn't make us good people in the long run (I don't think anyone is under the illusion it would, can he even leave his home?) though I don't think it would make us bad either. It's mostly just self satisfaction in the end.

  20. #59360
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    I just wanted more dog boy screentime.

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