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Thread: Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

  1. #60581
    ''but I think'' =/= a fact

  2. #60582
    6ix - The Void Clyton's Avatar
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    Wasn't it mentioned that Mordred only got the upperhand on normal Gawain because of the wound inflicted by Lancelot, and that she wasn't as confident duking it out with Gawain if he was at full health? (maybe this was in the Apoc LN, I forgot honestly)

    Regardless, if Nasu took a look at that ranking and put base Gawain at that level as reference, then it does make some sense. Base Gawain is still really powerful, and I couldn't think of any other KOTR that can prevail over him besides Lancelot and Tristan's ridiculous bow. Sun Gawain still the strongest though considering he put Lancelot on the defensive all the time to draw out the day into night.

  3. #60583
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors DTTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Mordred is Artoria's exact clone, down to her dragon factor prana burst. There's no way she's not top 3 material.
    Imo the rankings would be something like

    1# Lancelot (most skilled swordsman, most experienced)
    #2/#3 Mordred/Gawain (Gawain has sun hax, Mordred has more mana but can't use CBA without revealing her face)
    #4 onwards, eh.

    Tristan isn't regarded as particularly powerful in any of his appearances. He might be, but the most other characters have done is consider him annoying to fight against (Melt).
    well as for my opinion


    If there are 13 knights(12 seats + the king) then:

    Mordred's Mats in Apo state: "Though her overall specs are lower compared to her father Arthur, the King of Knights, she possesses power worthy of the Saber class".
    So overall she's weaker than Saber.
    Lance has been noted to be the strongest of the RT a bunch of times in both his Mats and in , so she's weaker than him too.
    And Gawain under the Sun was called by Bedivere the absolute strongest of the Knights and even without the sun is still a powerhouse acknowledged by others.

    So that makes three people who are overall stronger than her.

    As for the rest: Galahad is an anamoly, for whom we need more information about since Bedivere mentioned his thing wasn't being the strongest, rather it was being the ideal knight.
    But then in Moonlight Lostroom he soloed a grail war's worth of servants in less than 60 seconds so who knows really...

    Whenever the subject is about summoning the knights from fragments of the table both in Apo Mats and in the anime the one's whose names are mentioned are always "Lance, Gawain, Tristan and Percival". The former two are confirmed stronger and the latter two being mentioned among them leads me to believe that they are put aside as the most prominent of the bunch as well. At least that's how I see it.

    Tristan for what it's worth did better in Camelot against Team Chaldea than Mordred did, since he actually managed to stalemate against them in the end, unlike her who lost and died.

    She's definitely stronger than Bedi when he was alive(now i'm not sure). Most likely stronger than Kay, since Saber mentioned in Ataraxia that the latter wasn't much of a fighter and his talents were elsewhere.

    And the rest are question marks. But she's never actually considered anywhere to be among the strongest of the knights. Other than in her own opinion of course.

  4. #60584
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    I wonder what the 8th Sacramental Assembly would do if they were supervising a war in which Salome participated
    Last edited by fire_mountain_30; August 13th, 2019 at 05:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  5. #60585
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    I don't have any. Which is why you will not find me still grasping at straws and insisting my powerlevel wank is Gospel in this thread 48 hours later.
    Last comment.

    Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhh... if you think for a second that i was taking a stance that was supposed to be viewed as "gospel", even to me, then you seriously only read a fraction of what i said because being "anti-gospel" was the whole point of it all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  6. #60586
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six asterism42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    I guess it all comes down to how impressive you consider Failnaught. Invisible wind arrows and vacuum traps are certainly impressive, but I think they largely lose their efficiency when it comes to fighting Servants or their equivalent, who are generally superhumanly competent fighters.
    His (A ranked) Noble Phantasm is literally him actually bothering to use his bow properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

  7. #60587
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Also Tristan is just as strong physically and faster and can also be summoned as a saber to boot, so he has greater speed, probably technique and a broader skillset
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  8. #60588
    It's Summer, therefore, I changed. Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    His (A ranked) Noble Phantasm is literally him actually bothering to use his bow properly.
    And it all comes out to... murdering a bunch of civilians and making Chaldea's life difficult?

    At least I can't remember any time he and his NP actually had an impressive showing. Which is what I've been saying all along, it sounds like an unbeatable secret weapon but we've never actually seen it except against people who can fight against it on even ground or beat it (Arash, Meltryllis).
    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    It's like with centaur girls, you're fucking a horse. Sure the human part is the one that moans but your dick is in the horse, no way around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    boytoy angst > fulfilling life of misanthropic extremist environmentalism
    Once and always and nevermore.

  9. #60589
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    The bow is pretty neat to me

    "Because the velocity of the arrow, the bow’s angle adjustments, and above all, the loading speed of its arrows are all unusual, it is almost impossible to avoid the entire bullet, no matter how fast the hero is that excels in speed. It seems that the only ways for one to oppose this is by jumping dimensions, move one’s body outside of its range, and so forth.[2]
    For the different ways to use this string, Tristan can take up tactics such as tearing up, slicing up and tying down the opponent"
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  10. #60590
    吸血鬼 Vampire Amazigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    The bow is pretty neat to me

    "Because the velocity of the arrow, the bow’s angle adjustments, and above all, the loading speed of its arrows are all unusual, it is almost impossible to avoid the entire bullet, no matter how fast the hero is that excels in speed. It seems that the only ways for one to oppose this is by jumping dimensions, move one’s body outside of its range, and so forth.[2]
    For the different ways to use this string, Tristan can take up tactics such as tearing up, slicing up and tying down the opponent"
    I feel like the speed factor mentioned here is directly targetting Achilles, awkwardly enough, because he is deemed by his own Noble Phantasm's Description, "faster than any hero in any era".

  11. #60591
    Horseman War of Apocalypse Knight of Rebellion13's Avatar
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    Don't take Lostroom fights as reference pls, it's bunch of clusterfuck nonsense, the fight is. Why would Fionn become some thugs with spear that easily disarmed?
    Tristan in camelot is actually a huge threa, I found him scarier than gawain because he become psycopath.r

    - - - Updated - - -

    I still don't believe Servants are weaker than the one in life though, except foelr demigods
    Spoiler:

    War bring nothing but loss for both sides

  12. #60592
    Bad News LeadDemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Rebellion13 View Post
    I still don't believe Servants are weaker than the one in life though, except foelr demigods
    It's case by case, cause you've got the three different entities of the living hero, the Heroic Spirit in the Throne, and the Servant. The Servant will almost always be weaker than the Heroic Spirit, and the Heroic Spirit can be as strong or stronger than the living hero, so comparing the living hero and the Servant depends there.

    With normal human dudes from history, like most Man-attribute people for instance, they were just normal humans in life, so then the Heroic Spirit is leagues stronger because it's a big ol' deification of that person and you can get nutty stuff like what Tesla got as a fringe example, and consequently the Servant is better off than that living person was.

    If the Heroic Spirit is more like "the living hero, in their prime, with all their stuff", ergo there's a smaller gap between the living hero and the Heroic Spirit, then it's more likely the Servant will be weaker, cause the Servant's a fragment of the Heroic Spirit in that way.

    Even then it's hard to say cause we don't have a ton of comparative examples- Rin!Saber in FSN is called equal to living Saber in her prime, for instance, and you have stuff like Thrown Gae Bolg getting better from becoming a Heroic Spirit than it was in life, but there aren't a lot of cases where we get info like that.

  13. #60593
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    Hasnt Nasu flat out stated in an interview in the last few years that Servants are often weaker than in life and very rarely stronger?

    There was also an Avicebron line in volume 2 of Apo that Vlad in Romania and with plenty of mana is close to the level of power he had in life, but still a bit weaker.
    That... seems wrong somehow. Like, how would it even work? He couldn't turn into a Servant stomping vampire in life, nor did he have the power to magically create stakes inside someone's body, so how would his living self be stronger than his Servant self? Even if his living self had better stats, those above two advantages would still clearly make his Servant self stronger.

  14. #60594

  15. #60595
    Don't @ me if your fanfic doesn't even have Shirou/Illya shipping k thnx ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    Finally, some primo content.
    McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
    My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.



  16. #60596
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
    That... seems wrong somehow. Like, how would it even work? He couldn't turn into a Servant stomping vampire in life, nor did he have the power to magically create stakes inside someone's body, so how would his living self be stronger than his Servant self? Even if his living self had better stats, those above two advantages would still clearly make his Servant self stronger.
    i dunno what he could do regarding the stakes because we are in a magic setting so idk what he could do in life

    pretty sure avicebron wasnt counting the vampire stuff because even Vlad doesnt
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  17. #60597
    nirvana.bar Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
    That... seems wrong somehow. Like, how would it even work?
    AoG servants are likely to be inferior to their living counterparts because AoG has magic bullshit, thats one example

    Bullshit writing like Nero is another example

    Servant is always weaker than a Heroic Spirit because of what servant is
    Servant / Living Person is case-by-case thing which is determined by a bunch of factors like origins, legend power scaling etc

  18. #60598
    I think at one point of FGO it was outright said that Man-attribute Heroic Spirits are usually stronger as Servants, while with Earth and Heaven ones it depends.

  19. #60599
    闇色の六王 ~ ♡ Renko's Avatar
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    Man defeats Sky

    Sky defeats Earth

    Earth defeats Man

    "......"

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    The Wolf King Lobo's Avatar
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    Lol, Carmilla became a swimsuit servant out of frustration at seeing Liz getting so many variations on Halloween
    She's a phantom thief
    And it seems her car is her iron maiden reform into the form of a car
    (She's my favorite out of the whole bunch, I'll watch an entire anime series of Mistress C adventures)

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