Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Was he not important in the event?

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It's funny that Izo is one of the most notable hitokiri in Bakumatsu era, but act like a street thug

[Iceblade44]

Well you can argue that hitokiri were street thugs really. it depends

[GundamFSN]

He is important actually. His Redline allows him to detect another conqueror's location, and he helped fending off HS Soldiers and Mitsuhide.

[G-Man]

just saying, but he wasnt "utter garbage" in lore
at least in terms of combat ability

tho your point still stands in that Izo's actually really good at swording the way Shinji is said to be really good at social and non magic stuffs

Was he not important in the event?

He helped out by trashing cannon fodder, and his talent was praised by Li, but the fact is lore-wise he's not as good as the best swordsmen we've seen and his NP is literally seen as a cheap gimmick in most fictional works for a reason.

Most martial arts-based manga/anime have at least one character whose good at copying other peoples' techniques and those characters never amount to anything unless they're the main hero/one of the good guys (and even then only if copying is just one aspect of their style and not the only thing they're good at).

If you're the kind of guy who'd fall apart just because your opponent is copying your basic moves, then you probably weren't good enough to become a Heroic Spirit in the first place. This is perfectly exemplified by the fact that he can't copy NP techniques, or techniques on the level of NPs, despite copying other peoples' styles being all he's good at. He wasn't good enough to create epic techniques that would make him a legend (or even good enough to copy them).

He's a poor man's Shirou, but literally worse in almost every way except stats. We've got at least three other copycats in the franchise (Shirou, EMIYA, and the Zealot from Strange/fake) and all three of them blow Izou out of the water.

[castor212]

hey, im just saying

even Li said Izo had more talent than him, and the difference between them is paper thin

thats not "utter garbage", at the very least

Li said Izo's problem is really only his mentality

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the thing great about Izo is not really being able to copy, but the keenness and perceptiveness of his eye that is able to analyze other people's technique to begin with

im not saying he is super hotshoit, i simply disagree with "Izo being portrayed as utter garbage". He is anything but in the story.
he's arrogant and act like a thug, yes (adorable tho), but in terms of martial might he already got recognition from other powerful peeps

[fire_mountain_30]

just saying, but he wasnt "utter garbage" in lore
at least in terms of combat ability

tho your point still stands in that Izo's actually really good at swording the way Shinji is said to be really good at social and non magic stuffs

so what you are saying is...

that Shinji has the charisma to start a cult...

and he has a harem...

Guys! i know who the 2nd Beast III is going to be!

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He helped out by trashing cannon fodder, and his talent was praised by Li, but the fact is lore-wise he's not as good as the best swordsmen we've seen and his NP is literally seen as a cheap gimmick in most fictional works for a reason.

Most martial arts-based manga/anime have at least one character whose good at copying other peoples' techniques and those characters never amount to anything unless they're the main hero/one of the good guys (and even then only if copying is just one aspect of their style and not the only thing they're good at).

If you're the kind of guy who'd fall apart just because your opponent is copying your basic moves, then you probably weren't good enough to become a Heroic Spirit in the first place. This is perfectly exemplified by the fact that he can't copy NP techniques, or techniques on the level of NPs, despite copying other peoples' styles being all he's good at. He wasn't good enough to create epic techniques that would make him a legend (or even good enough to copy them).

He's a poor man's Shirou, but literally worse in almost every way except stats. We've got at least three other copycats in the franchise (Shirou, EMIYA, and the Zealot from Strange/fake) and all three of them blow Izou out of the water.

this is IP Nero VS Li all over again

[G-Man]

hey, im just saying

even Li said Izo had more talent than him, and the difference between them is paper thin

thats not "utter garbage", at the very least

Li said Izo's problem is really only his mentality

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the thing great about Izo is not really being able to copy, but the keenness and perceptiveness of his eye that is able to analyze other people's technique to begin with

im not saying he is super hotshoit, i simply disagree with "Izo being portrayed as utter garbage". He is anything but in the story.
he's arrogant and act like a thug, yes (adorable tho), but in terms of martial might he already got recognition from other powerful peeps

I see. I apologize because my choice of words caused a misunderstanding. When I say he's utter trash lore-wise, I don't mean I think the story trashed him, I mean that how he is presented shows that he's not a particularly impressive Heroic Spirit.

He's an arrogant jerk who squandered his talent, and so never amounted to anything more than a mere killer for hire, with an NP that reads like they were making fun of him. As a character I love him, but looking at all the other Japanese swordsmen we've seen in this franchise he's so inadequate it's not funny.

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so what you are saying is...

that Shinji has the charisma to start a cult...

and he has a harem...

Guys! i know who the 2nd Beast III is going to be!

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this is IP Nero VS Li all over again

How so? Nero has one of the BS Personal Skills ever invented and a decently strong NP. Izou has admittedly incredible skill... that he never fully realized and likely never will now that he's a Servant, and an NP that is worthless, even in a Grail War full of nothing but other swordsmen.

[JetKinen]

The way I read Izou was that he was a big fish in a little pond and lost his way in that high opposed to the other martial autists out there who were more focused on mastering their art of fighting.
He is all talent and no hardwork and that eventually caught up to him as a Heroic Spirit.

[GundamFSN]

Yeah, Li urges him to train harder but lament over the fact HS can't grow.

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Could always put an alternate Izo who actually works hard I guess. Someday. Somewhere. Maybe.

[G-Man]

The way I read Izou was that he was a big fish in a little pond and lost his way in that high opposed to the other martial autists out there who were more focused on mastering their art of fighting.
He is all talent and no hardwork and that eventually caught up to him as a Heroic Spirit.

Thank you! That is basically what I was trying to say, but far more succinct than I could pull off. He's amazing when compared to the scrubs who will never amount to anything, and that gave him a big head, but now he's a Servant faced with guys who went further beyond the level he stopped at and he's basically boned...

And I love him for it! He somehow feels more like a real person (with all the accompanying flaws) to me than a lot of the other Japanese Servants.

[castor212]

Yeah, Li urges him to train harder but lament over the fact HS can't grow.


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Could always put an alternate Izo who actually works hard I guess. Someday. Somewhere. Maybe.

its ok, he just need to engrave it in his saint graph to "i will be better" instead of "i am better" and remember that everytime he got summoned!

[JetKinen]

Yeah, Li urges him to train harder but lament over the fact HS can't grow.

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Could always put an alternate Izo who actually works hard I guess. Someday. Somewhere. Maybe.

Just make a pact with the CF

[castor212]

There are several theories concerning his early life. Some fiction writers postulate that he was in actuality Akechi Mitsuhide. It is not certain whether Mitsuhide died at the Battle of Yamazaki or not, and some suppose that he survived and began a new life as the priest Tenkai.

ohhh so thats why...

[JetKinen]

Thank you! That is basically what I was trying to say, but far more succinct than I could pull off. He's amazing when compared to the scrubs who will never amount to anything, and that gave him a big head, but now he's a Servant faced with guys who went further beyond the level he stopped at and he's basically boned...

And I love him for it! He somehow feels more like a real person (with all the accompanying flaws) to me than a lot of the other Japanese Servants.

I think Kenkeichi is very good at balancing servants mechanically wise

Okita is fast and deadly but has tuberculosis
Nobu can be very strong but she also sucks against most modern servants
Izou is pretty mediocre as far as sword saints go
Onii Musashi is also pretty low tier and needs German Technology backing up to amount to anything
Maxwell's Demon is fucking weird.

Ryouma is the most traditionally strong servant but he used to only be able to use his NP once. I dunno if that changed with FGO

[Zork Knight]

Feels like almighty manslaughterer Izou was born to get beaten by simple-ass farmer Sasaki after finding out he can't even copy the guy's basic moves

[castor212]

asking for help a bit

this sentence confused me a bit, especially the last verb. can anybody help?

Spoiler:

[Wandering Swordwoman]

After reading other famous Assassin in Bakumatsu era, I found that Kawakami Gensai will be more impressive servant

Wow also that long talk. Thnks, now I know that he is just one of those arrogant lazy ass

[G-Man]

I think Kenkeichi is very good at balancing servants mechanically wise

Okita is fast and deadly but has tuberculosis
Nobu can be very strong but she also sucks against most modern servants
Izou is pretty mediocre as far as sword saints go
Onii Musashi is also pretty low tier and needs German Technology backing up to amount to anything
Maxwell's Demon is fucking weird.

Ryouma is the most traditionally strong servant but he used to only be able to use his NP once. I dunno if that changed with FGO

Izou isn't a sword saint, though?

Feels like almighty manslaughterer Izou was born to get beaten by simple-ass farmer Sasaki after finding out he can't even copy the guy's basic moves

Yeah, as an antagonist he's pretty much "that guy", and even as an ally he's Shinji, but actually useful in a fight. It's why I love him. He's basically in the wrong series. In a more traditional martial arts story he'd be a top-tier threat, but he's in the franchise where you can break the universe if you get good enough at swinging a sword.

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After reading other famous Assassin in Bakumatsu era, I found that Kawakami Gensai will be more impressive servant

Wow also that long talk. Thnks, now I know that he is just one of those arrogant lazy ass

Gensai is the guy Himura Kenshin, from Ruroni Kenshin, was based on. Funnily enough, the first major antagonist in RK was based on Izou, lol!

[GundamFSN]

asking for help a bit

this sentence confused me a bit, especially the last verb. can anybody help?

Spoiler:

I just took it as Nobu's leftover Saint Graph traversing the rayshift space then found Nobukatsu's record close by due to Guda 2 event.

[Lily Emilio]

I just took it as Nobu's leftover Saint Graph traversing the rayshift space then found Nobukatsu's record close by due to Guda 2 event.

Yea that's what I thought as well. These 2 just happened to merge with each other thx to that.