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Thread: Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore

  1. #29121
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six castor212's Avatar
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    come now

    sure ly its not that uneven

    right
    Quote Originally Posted by mewarmo990 View Post
    you don't need to think about it that hard
    Quote Originally Posted by castor212 View Post
    I dont get it

  2. #29122
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six rxrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fallacies View Post
    In becoming a human, he hoped that his wish would grant him the freedom to live without mandate. However, in his final moments as a Servant, his Clairvoyance showed him the end of the world, without any context on how it would happen. He spent the next ten odd years in complete paranoia, working his butt off to ensure the survival of humanity -- all the while concealing his origins.
    Judging from Accel Zero, the Counter Force will come into action if there is a winner of a grail war with a corrupted grail, thus Assassin Emiya sorties to kill off Iri. Unless you can explain why there is no such thing happening in the one Solomon has won, all I can think of is you smoke too much. I can even say like my previous posts YHVH has planned everything, from getting Solomon to send one ring to the future, granting his wish to become human while knowing that his ability will show him the end of humanity and thus motivate him to work his ass off. In the end, beasts I, II and IV and defeated.

  3. #29123
    ぷよ使い Puyo Mage fallacies's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if you're understanding my argument ...

  4. #29124
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six rxrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fallacies View Post
    I'm not sure if you're understanding my argument ...
    Me neither. All I am getting is you trying to insist the grail Solomon and Marisbilly used is corrupted and thus things turn out this way.

  5. #29125
    ぷよ使い Puyo Mage fallacies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rxrx View Post
    Me neither. All I am getting is you trying to insist the grail Solomon and Marisbilly used is corrupted and thus things turn out this way.
    As reference:

    Quote Originally Posted by fallacies View Post
    What you're supposed to get from the Accel Zero Order passage is that LAPLACE provided a record of Fuyuki 2004 as the "1st Grail War," and that details of the record were later revealed to be falsified or incorrect. Ergo, in absolute canonicity, there is no way to verify that Fuyuki 2004 was indeed the 1st Grail War of the FGO timeline, regardless of possible explanations. The Holmes scene doesn't verify it, and may indicate that Atlas' records were tampered with too. The Final Singularity just gives evidence that Roman lied to you.

    Everything else I stated was essentially playing Devil's Advocate to people going, "well, in that case, then explain this in context of the more-than-one War theory."

    tl;dr I have not yet seen convincing evidence that there was only one Grail War at Fuyuki in the original timeline of FGO.
    Anyways, not really interested in going on about this more.
    Last edited by fallacies; Yesterday at 01:51 PM.

  6. #29126
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fallacies View Post
    In becoming a human, he hoped that his wish would grant him the freedom to live without mandate. However, in his final moments as a Servant, his Clairvoyance showed him the end of the world, without any context on how it would happen. He spent the next ten odd years in complete paranoia, working his butt off to ensure the survival of humanity -- all the while concealing his origins.
    He chose to live that way, I don't see the problem.

    I'm not suggesting that Roman is a "great" actor.

    What you're supposed to get from the Accel Zero Order passage is that LAPLACE provided a record of Fuyuki 2004 as the "1st Grail War," and that details of the record were later revealed to be falsified or incorrect. Ergo, in absolute canonicity, there is no way to verify that Fuyuki 2004 was indeed the 1st Grail War of the FGO timeline, regardless of possible explanations. The Holmes scene doesn't verify it, and may indicate that Atlas' records were tampered with too. The Final Singularity just gives evidence that Roman lied to you.
    If erasing the records of previous grail wars was important enough for Solomon to bother doing in the first place, he would have made sure that such information would be obtainable after we stopped Goetia from destroying humanity so that we could use it to put a stop to any potential danger that would arise from such information.

    Everything else I stated was essentially playing Devil's Advocate to people going, "well, in that case, then explain this in context of the more-than-one War theory."

    tl;dr I have not yet seen convincing evidence that there was only one Grail War at Fuyuki in the original timeline of FGO.
    There needs to be a plausible reason as to why erasing previous wars would be important to do. Even in SN's timeline, the Fuyuki ritual isn't considered an extremely important thing for the MA to be all that concerned about despite its potential power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  7. #29127
    War sword KooriRenchuu's Avatar
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    Solomon was human, all humans have desires and interests, they can be swayed by these more than the logic that many hold as the highest virtue. We are at our core nothing but animals, and we need to keep that in mind when dealing with characters as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elf View Post
    Koori is a miracle of the forum.

    Seriously.

    This fandom needs more happily gay men.

  8. #29128
    Author of Mages Twi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post

    There needs to be a plausible reason as to why erasing previous wars would be important to do. Even in SN's timeline, the Fuyuki ritual isn't considered an extremely important thing for the MA to be all that concerned about despite its potential power.
    In the MA's defense, the founders hid the purpose of the war pretty well to where only Zouken and Ilya knew it could open a path to the Root. If you were willing to risk your life, which could mean an end to your lineage if killed, then as far as they knew they'd get a boatload of prana to use for whatever they wanted in the form of a wish. Chances are you're already striving for it and don't need to go that far, specifically when procuring an catalyst is difficult and entering enemy territory. Even Kayneth was there for the prestige.

    And nobody expected Avenger, or they would have definitely shut it down.
    Yet the burden shall be shared by two entwined, from which the sword will part from the body and be bestowed upon the vassal to sacrifice themselves and cleave through space and time.

    Mark upon this unworthy flesh the emblem of the sacrifice, the vassal whose death shall bring forth victory through the fields of steel and blood!

    The oath is laid here. We are the ones who represent all the good within the pure lands, and we are the ones who judge what is evil within the pure lands. Thou, Seven Heavens clad in three mere words of unequal power, shall emerge from the spiral of control, O keeper of the balance—!


  9. #29129
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twi View Post
    In the MA's defense, the founders hid the purpose of the war pretty well to where only Zouken and Ilya knew it could open a path to the Root. If you were willing to risk your life, which could mean an end to your lineage if killed, then as far as they knew they'd get a boatload of prana to use for whatever they wanted in the form of a wish. Chances are you're already striving for it and don't need to go that far, specifically when procuring an catalyst is difficult and entering enemy territory. Even Kayneth was there for the prestige.
    I never said that the MA knew the original purpose for the ritual, just that they'd be aware that the ritual existed. Saying that removing previous war information was important means that something happened during said wars that could threaten Solomon's or Marisbilly's plans.

    And nobody expected Avenger, or they would have definitely shut it down.
    Except that the Einzbern's Lesser Grail clearly would have known about it, but they weren't interested in shutting down the wars because they were only interested in winning at that point.

    Edit: For the fifth war at least, though then that leads into the problem of "how did Solomon/Marisbilly use the grail without humanity dying"?

    Edit 2: I can see how Solomon being the king of magecraft would conjure up some method to get around Angra, but he'd have to wiped the previous wars' info with the wish since he lost his powers after said wish, but if he knew there was a problem then why would he wish to be human?

    Edit 3: I mean, if you're going to erase previous war information from the records, then why bother leave any information about any grail war?
    Last edited by Trubo; Yesterday at 03:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

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