My predictions of possible scenarios:
1) We go stay at Matou house, and:
a) Zouken puts the screws to Shinji.
b) The Einzbern attack, and kill Sakura. Or Shinji saves her because of Zelkova being there.
Or, 2) We go just to the funeral, and:
a) the funeral is already blown up thanks to the Einzbern attacking.
b) Einzbern attack, kill Sakura. Or Shinji saves her because of Zelkova.
c) the Einzbern attacked the manor the night before and they're already dead.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
If the bit on IRC that was mentioned here was right, the 50/50
choice already happened, making the funeral the big part. Whether or not Sakura dies should be set in stone either way.
I vote attending the funeral only.
I mentioned that there was a 50/50 chance. I didn't say which choice it was, just that the next choice (at the time) was whether to take Zelkova.Originally Posted by Caster
The 50/50 chance could be from a combination of multiple voting options. Half the option combinations lead to her death and half to her survival.
[x] Go to Matou manor the night before, and attend the funeral with the family the next day.
Attending the funeral with a nature spirit as a familiar could lead observers to conclude that Shinji is the heir of the Matou, rather than Sakura. Thus the Einzbern might direct any retaliation at Shinji rather than Sakura. Of course they could just as easily decide Shinji was too potentially powerful a target to strike at with whatever forces they sent.
Sakura's death could also come at the hands of Zouken. If Shinji can't do anything to calm Zouken's fears about the Einzbern, then he might fake his death and possess Sakura now, or he could do so if the Einzbern attack and his current body is injured extensively.
Maybe we can save her if Zouken has a spare shark laying around...
I did say if for a reason. I didn't get to see the context, just what was posted here. Though I find all the focus on Sakura a bit odd. Not from you, the voters.
[ ] Go to Matou manor the night before, and attend the funeral with the family the next day.
I don't know why anyone cares about Sakura either. Maybe some of them are hoping it turns into a Shinji/Sakura ship or something.
The one I'm disturbed by is Rin. It stretches my suspension of disbelief that she's hard drinking at 14.
Pretty much every choice we make can be spun in a way that kills Sakura.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
I think this is actually the first time I've started to see any of us here taking Sakura into consideration at all. From experience we've actually cared a lot more about Zouken in the last three books than we have Sakura.
And I agree with Mac, all of our choices can be taken as a way to get Sakura killed, so I'd highly recommend that we focus on what is best for our interests.
[x] - Go the night before
We do still have obligations to Zouken, and even if we're planning to cut ties permanently, we might as well try to make it an amicable split.Until we get ourselves killed by worming, of course.
Its not that I care about Sakura, its more that I do not want something bad to happen to anyone because of Shinji's actions, well as long as their not bastards themselves. Thus why breaking of Hermione hurt for me. Sakura is someone that I would like to see be reunited with her sister as a family again. Course the years of bad feelings, hate and sorrow would have to be bridged to do that. And well for that to have a chance of happening, Shinji and Sakura would have to overcome their issues with each other. Its a pipe dream, I know. But one that I can not do if she is dead.
Its not about the harem or getting one of the girls to fall in love with Shinji. Harem routes can not be unlocked with out beating the game once anyway. Hell I am shooting for the happy ending and well we all know how rare those are in the Nasuverse.
Last edited by Skull Leader; December 31st, 2015 at 03:49 AM.
Sakura is one of the big traumas for Shinji so having them make up is somthing that i want to try.
[X] Go to Matou manor the night before, and attend the funeral with the family the next day.
More as a precaution than anything else. It gives Shinji time to talk with Grandpa and, if Einzberns really plan to crash the party, won't immediately paint a target on him (just as soon as they realize he is there).
[X] Go to Matou manor the night before, and attend the funeral with the family the next day.
I'm sure we can totally explain this whole misunderstanding to Zouken with no strings attached, yeah.
Well, looks like I misinterpreted your words and misinformed people. Sorry.
Luna meta post
I'm writing of this post from the perspective of a reader rather than a player. As a reader the question is not "should we have a relationship with luna" its "is the relationship with Luna interesting to read." I have read a lot of stories with a lot of different kinds of relationships. Some and burn fast and hot, some are long and slow, some people slide in to without even noticing. Some relationships are antagonistic, some seem extremely natural, and opositses sometimes attract and sometimes repel. Some are gloriously idiosyncratic balls of neurosis and some are handled with mature competence. There's soulmates and friends-with-benefits. Even after all of that I still have trouble describing the Shinji and Luna relationship. It's just plain weird.
For one thing it seems sort of like the emotional content and the behavioral content are out of sync with each other. We see events that are supposed to be their first kiss, their first hand holding etc., but they feel more like the 50th or 5000th.
Neither of them ever display any of the uncertainty that I would expect from a pair of teenagers exploring their first relationship and growing physicality. Instead, these first time events occur almost as if they were expected, as if they were something that they inevitably slide into. The closest emotional match would be an old married couple, where such gestures are simply expected as a matter of course, except these are supposed to be new feelings and events.
Shinji never worries about his relationship with Luna. He never wonders where they're going, he never worries that becoming increasingly physical with someone who is (apparently his new) best friend might complicate their relationship. He never thinks about her body either, except for a single instance where he notices her scent over Christmas. Which would count as a moment a spontaneous sensuality except that it's the exact same moment that you had him experience in the tent before the start of term, which you assured the readers meant absolutely nothing and was a total coincidence simply because Luna happened to be there.
For someone whom he is supposed to fall in love with she is not a large presence in his thoughts that we see. In general, their behavior towards each other and Shinji's behavior in general remains the same as it was just after the start of the year. The only thought that really indicates a relationship is when Shinji feels jealousy about Luna praising another male. Which is another out of sync moments: when I first read that my thought was something like "You're just feeling this now? Not months ago after you started kissing, or after you wound up making out on the couch?" Never mind that confusion about jelousy is actually more likely to presage a relationship than occur after they're already getting physical. On top of that, if Shinji's aware enough of what he is feeling to recognize that he is both jealous and that he is jealous because she is praising another male it's not really believable that he could still remain oblivious. Jealousy specifically because she is praising another man is not a platonic feeling. If you wanted Shinji to remain ignorant, rather than having it stated so baldly it might work better if you had him think something negative about Neville, claim that she was overstating his case, maybe even say something to that effect. That would display Shinji being jealous rather than a simply telling us "he's jealous because she's paying attention to another man" while having Shinji's remain blissfully oblivious despite having a such a very explicit thought.
Previously, I had tried to interpret their relationship as them being so comfortable with each other that they just slide into intimacy naturally. This petty jealousy contradicts that, as if they were really so close that they would just fall together without ever talking or thinking about it then he'd be too secure and comfortable to feel this. So I can't model them as an old married couple, and I can't model them as friends-with-age-appropriate-benefits because neither of them really seems to care about or seek out physical intimacy, it's just something that happens.
Part of the responsibility for this does not lie with you, but with Luna. It is very difficult to have a conversation with Luna. Her signature vague/quirky conversational style makes it very difficult to have an exchange. Presumably a lot of their bonding happens off screen in the tremendous amount of time they spend together. This is illustrated by having them always appear as a matched set to show how close they are (and have been since the start of term) but it doesn't help us understand why. Luna is the main character love interest but I think that conversation we had with Pansy on capture the flag day gave us more insight into Pansy in that one conversation than we had into Luna all year
Some of the other potentially romantic events send mixed messages. Having them cuddling on the steps before the spider hunt might seem romantic, but it's basically the same as when they read the Hobbit together, so what is that supposed to tell us? There are the dancing scenes which are supposed to imply a deep personal level of understanding but you use that same dancing description for almost every dance so that's not really helpful in establishing his feelings for Luna.
You once mentioned some of the benefits of associating with Luna were that she would keep Shinji from having a meltdown and keep him from focusing on the wizarding world and forgetting that the outside world existed. We haven't really seen either of these happen but they both would be good chances for Luna to have a meaningful conversation and add depth to their relationship.
Readers also like characters that make them laugh regardless of which side the character is on. Being kind of a dick is often a good way to do that.
Ultimately, I know that Shinji loves her because he says he does, but I don't understand it at all.
P.S. I was so tempted to title this post "The Problem of Luna" but that wasn't the right message.
[x] Go the Night Before
Chapter 3. The Death of Matou Shinji
For the first time since he’d begun his journey as a practitioner of witchcraft, Matou Shinji found himself in the forbidden chamber of the Matou estate, standing on the platform overlooking a pit of hundreds of thousands of worms – so many that if a human were to be swarmed by them, he or she would not last even a minute.
With all that he had seen, all that he experienced, the onmyouji thought he should be inured to the sheer horror of the Matou family workshop – or the room that passed for one, with the putrid honey sweet stench of death and decay redolent in the air, and a sound that was a cross between the worst wailing in the world and a half-eaten corpse being dragged across a stone floor echoing from the half-melted stone walls.
‘I do not like this place, Master. At all. What I see…what I see is…’
Over his mental link, Shinji could feel his familiar’s unease as the vulpine form of Zelkova’s astral projection sat perched on his shoulder.
‘Show me,’ the boy asked, and a moment later, his view of the world changed, with the colors of everything around him fading away, save for his own form, which was wreathed in an aura of faintly gleaming blue – and the writhing mass of red-tinged darkness below him – a darkness that seemed hungry beyond measure, a mass that seemed to demand his destruction….
‘…Zelkova…?’
‘Yes, Master.’
‘You told me what red, blue, and gold meant,’ the Matou scion communicated, ‘But what’s…black?’
‘Death,’ was the familiar’s chilling reply, as the room was filled with laughter – and not his own.
It was a laugh he’d heard once before and had never hoped to hear again, and it came from the very center of the decay, where threads of darkness and rot were taking the shape of a man. Hundreds creating the rudiments of feet, skin, ankles. Thousands more creating the imitation musculature and nerves, making the mockery of life more and more complete as more worms entered it – and were consumed, forming the flesh and form of Matou Zouken, the patriarch of the Matou family.
“You have come, child of the Makiri,” the mass spoke, the presence of rot and corrosion almost overwhelming the boy as the being came slowly up the stairs, stopping at the platform where his…grandson waited. “You understood the message then?”
“…yes, grandfather,” Matou Shinji replied deferentially, going down on one knee before the Archmagus. “What is it you desire, grandfather?”
“Answers, boy,” the voice of Matou Zouken rang out as the final worms flowed into place and the man took on his misleadingly kindly form.
“…answers?”
“Do not test my patience as your worthless mother did before you,” the Archmagus cautioned, his voice a hiss that carried above the writing and screaming of the worms below as sunken sockets regarded the boy kneeling before him. “What have you done with the daughter of the Einzbern?”
“I didn’t do anything, grandfather, beyond what you instructed,” the boy replied. “I asked her to accompany me to the gala in the interest of reconciliation. I escorted her about London. And I saw her off to her waiting plane.”
Which was all true from a certain point of view, though that didn’t really help as the Archmagus advanced on the hapless boy, with the shrieking of the worms becoming louder and louder as he did.
“Do not lie to me, boy,” the Matou patriarch commanded. “If you had simply done that, the Einzbern would not be displeased that the daughter of Kiritsugu never returned to Germany, no doubt believing that you captured her a part of a plot I coordinated. So I ask again, what did you do with Illyasviel von Einzbern?”
“Simply what you asked, grandfather. I did everything in my power to make the representative of the Einzbern happy, to bury the enmity between us. And on the final day, when she asked me if she should wake up and return to despair, or if she should take a leap of faith,” the boy related, swallowing as he fought to resist his grandfather’s aura of dread. “…I…”
“Yes…?”
“I told her to leap.”
“To leap,” Matou Zouken repeated, his features twisting into a scowl. “You told her to abandon her role, then, if not in as many words. And for what? Do you know where she went off to after her ‘leap’, boy?”
“I cannot say,” the boy replied, his features arranged into a perfectly blank mask.
‘This…this is not good,’ Shinji thought to himself, but remained silent, even as every hair on his body began to stand on end, even as every cell in his body told him to fight – or flee, though his mind told him that there was no way out if Zouken did not permit it.
“Cannot…or will not?” Zouken rasped, the buzzing and shrieking in the background growing ever louder as the worms seemed to…rise. “As the head of the Matou family, I order you to speak, child.”
‘This…this is not good,’ Shinji thought to himself, even as every hair on his body began to stand on end, even as every cell in his body told him to fight – or flee, though his mind told him that there was no way out if Zouken did not permit it.
Yet he remained silent, for his loyalty to another overrode his fear of Zouken. To her he had sworn his allegiance – that even if it cost him everything, even if the world itself became her enemy, he would be her ally.
He would not betray her in this. Could not.
Not when everything he had now was because of her. His apprenticeship with Aozaki Touko, provisional though it might be; the wealth of the Room of Hidden Things; the prestige he enjoyed in Magical Britain and more.
So no answer came – and no answer would ever come.
“I see,” Matou Zouken said slowly, his voice like two granite slabs grinding together. “Another commands your silence. How…interesting.”
It had been some time since a child of his blood showed such…spirit, he supposed. And if the boy had fallen afoul of one of another magus, he supposed that was something that could be remedied. So far, it didn’t seem that he hadn’t intended to betray the family, even if the outcome of his actions had been nothing short of disastrous.
“I will make you an offer, boy,” the Archmagus uttered disdainfully. “Submit to a geas never to betray the interests of this family again, and I will let you live, as there is a task you may yet accomplish for me.”
“And what task might that be?” Shinji spoke at last.
“A trifling matter, child,” Zouken ground out. “All you need do is seduce the Tohsaka heiress, and win her trust. Convince her to give her allegiance to you – and thus to our family, through marriage, so that the Three Families become Two. This will, of course, necessitate formally signing over the Tohsaka assets – including the spiritual land of Fuyuki itself, to me.”
The Archmagus chuckled.
“Do this, and I will arrange matters so that you may be known as the head of the Matou family – in public, at least.”
The background noise quieted as the Archmagus waited for an answer, with Zouken knowing full well that such an offer was far more generous than his failure of a grandson deserved, one that he would not have offered to the treacherous child if the Einzbern were not already…displeased with him.
As it was, however, he would take what assets he could get.
But the boy’s response surprised him.
“No.” Matou Shinji said firmly, rising to his feet to meet his grandfather eye to eye. “With all due respect, this is an offer I cannot accept.”
For a moment, the room seemed to freeze, as the Matou patriarch actually stepped back in surprise.
His grandson had…refused? Then that meant that Shinji had not fallen under another’s compulsion, after all, but had defied the family’s interests of his own free will.
“Wretched, faithless boy,” the Archmagus spat in fury, as worms surged upwards, along the steps and up the walls. “I gave you everything. When you were useless to me, I spared your life. When you received that missive from that school of witchcraft, I arranged for you to receive a Mystic Code. I arranged for Aozaki Touko to serve as a guide and mentor to you. I paid for your instruction at the school. I gifted you a blade that you might receive training from a man who may be the current Hassan-i-Sabbah? And this…this is how you repay me? How you repay what this family has done for you?”
‘Master…?’ Zelkova’s voice came over Shinji’s mental link with the kodama, ‘Are you…?’
“You would be nothing without me,” Zouken continued, killing intent exploding from his form as the old man’s appearance became more and more inhuman. “And yet when I asked you to accomplish one small task, you betrayed me.”
“I did not—“
“SILENCE, BOY!” the sound came not from what remained of Zouken’s body now, but from the entire chamber, as if all the worms within were directed by a single will. “You have done far more than enough. You have exposed this family to danger, put another party’s interests above our own, and worst of all, refused to make up for your error in the slightest. It is time you shared your mother’s fate.”
Worms rushed forward, swarming hungrily towards Matou Shinji’s form, but the moment before they struck, a bounded field blew them away, with the boy no longer clad in an ensemble of coat and slacks, but in a deep grey garment of a very Japanese cut, holding a scythe in his hand.
“I think not,” the other spoke, his golden eyes flashing defiantly in the darkness.
More worms rushed forward – hundreds, thousands, worms beyond number, the fell craft which animated them eating away at the bounded field – before the very stone under them came to life, ripping them apart.
“You dare lift your hand against me?!” a voice hissed.
Shinji had barely a moment to react as he felt a surge of prana, with a volley of shadowy spears materializing all around him and shooting forth to skewer him where he stood, piercing his bounded field and ripping through his body.
Or rather, where his body had been a split second ago, as sensing the danger, he’d leapt upward with all his might, commanding the stone of the wall to extrude a ledge for him to stand on.
“Fool! No matter what you do, you only delay the inevitable,” the mass of worms hissed as one, as it surged up the walls towards him, with the form of Matou Zouken himself barring the way out. “You are in the very heart of my power. There can be no escape.”
But Matou Shinji was not helpless, as by his will and the prana within him, the very walls came to life, impaling the worms that sought him and turning them to stone.
“Perhaps not,” the boy conceded, as he jumped from ledge to ledge to avoid spears of corrupting shadow, his scythe cutting cold shining arcs through the swarm that came after him. “You likely could destroy me. But can you do it before I bring down this house and everything in it?”
The mass ceased its onslaught at the audacity of the boy’s question.
“…what did you say?” the swarm hissed sibilantly, yet it made no move to attack,
“This house is made of earth and wood, is it not, grandfather?” the creature that bore the name of Matou Shinji inquired, expanding his awareness to encompass the entirety of the structure. “And while bringing it down upon us likely could not kill you, I wonder how my…sister would fare.”
“You…you would not dare do such a thing,” Matou Zouken said – but there was a bit of uncertainty in the Archmagus’ voice. “You know that if you did, I would destroy you – every bit of you.”
“Of course I would,” the boy intoned, his voice utterly without anger, without pride, without any emotion at all – and all the more disconcerting for it. “You see, grandfather, you might call this a no win scenario. Which means, if I don’t have a chance of winning – I just have to make you lose.”
A thick, heavy silence hung in the air as Matou Zouken digested what his…grandson had just threatened to do – something that no proper Matou would ever do. For if the boy succeeded, the family would come to an end, and worse, the Archmagus would lose a vessel into which he’d implanted pieces of the broken Grail.
…and that could not be permitted, at any cost.
“What do you want then, traitor?” the Matou patriarch growled, looking up the one who had dared to defy him.
“My life,” the boy replied softly. “I wish to walk out of that door alive, and in full control of my will, without the chains of this past existence – any geas - binding me.”
Once more, an uneasy silence fell, with seconds stretching to minutes on end, before the Archmagus spoke at last.
“I should kill you where you stand for what you have done against this family, boy,” Matou Zouken noted, closing his eyes. “For what you have threatened to do. We gave you everything, made you who you were – and yet you betrayed our trust, invited destruction upon us, and threaten the same yourself. You are no son of the Matou. Perhaps you never were.”
The old monster shook his head, as if he found what had happened difficult to believe.
“You wish for freedom after doing so much to us?” the Archmagus continued, narrowing his eyes. “Then you shall have it. In turn, you must renounce everything we gave you. Including the wand which marks you as a Matou, your name, and any claim to a place in Fuyuki…or this family.”
“…done,” Shinji said, swallowing. Without another word, he withdrew his cherry and worm wand – the instrument that had served him faithfully over the last three years, and dropped it into the pit of worms below.
As if in acknowledgement, the form of Matou Zouken melted away, leaving the path to the door clear.
“Then from the moment, child, you are dead to this family.” The monster’s voice issued from all around the stone chamber, echoing off the walls. “And as acting Second Owner, I banish you from this spiritual land on pain of death. Should you ever return, whether for the Grail War or any other reason, I will destroy you.”
“Your will be done, Second Owner,” the boy stated, bowing his head in acceptance of Matou Zouken’s terms.
“Were it were truly so,” the Archmagus said quietly, “we would not be having this conversation. Now begone.”
And so the boy named Matou Shinji died that night, as the nameless one who took his place leaving the Matou estate for the first – and last – time.
Invisible to the eyes of others, the boy wandered out on the street towards the Fujou estate – the place where he had arranged for Zelkova’s physical body to be delivered. Before coming to Fuyuki, he’d been concerned about his safety, given the magecraft the Matou specialized in, as well as the presence of the strange “Archer” he’d encountered the last time he was here, and knew it would be safer to bring his familiar.
However, as powerful as Zelkova was, the kodama had one crippling weakness – the fact that its physical form was a potted plant, incapable of protecting itself if the spirit within was used for fusion form were required.
So, the boy had gone to the Root of the Sky, where he’d spoken Matsuo Hijiri about his concerns, and the Maiden of the Tree, having heard what he had done for the Fujou, was prepared to be accommodating.
“Yes, I can see how that might be an issue, especially as you have not yet reached the point where you can simply project yourself to a destination while in fusion form,” the woman had noted.
“…I can do that?” the boy had asked, blinking, where upon the Maiden had sighed.
“Yes. Once you attain more proficiency with the skill, Matou,” she’d replied, raising an eyebrow. “You have barely begun to scratch the surface of what spirit fusion makes possible, but you will learn in time. Provided you survive that long.”
“…do you know something I don’t?”
“Much,” the young woman had said to him, looking at him with eyes the color of dried blood. “But then, I’ve been around much longer than you. All I meant in this case is that it takes time to master the skill. A great deal of it.”
“You don’t look it, you know,” the boy had commented, noting that the girl dressed in the attire of a shrine maiden still seemed quite young – that in fact, she hadn’t seemed to age a single day since three years ago.
“Of course not. You don’t age while in fusion form,” the Maiden of the Tree had said quietly. “And I’ve remained in fusion for a very long time.”
“With the great tree of Mahoutokoro,” Shinji had summed up.
“Just so,” Hijiri had answered, giving her head a shake. “I will prepare a gateway to transport your familiar’s physical form to Fuyuki separately from you – and to evacuate you both if necessary.”
“I am grateful. But where will it be?”
“The former Emiya estate, where Fujou Hisui and her guardian reside at present.”
It was to there he was falling back now, remaining hidden from prying eyes due to his synchronization with the world. For those in fusion form, the individual and the world were not distinctly separated, so it was a small thing to push that synchronization to its limits and simply vanish, rendering one’s form utterly indiscernible.
If one were to attack or make preparations for such, this would, of course, increase the distinction between the world and the self, given the concentration of will required, but otherwise, it was a powerful ability.
One he used to good measure as he vaulted the wall of the Fujou estate, entering the shed in its central courtyard and passing through the portal within to the City Under Earth, carrying his familiar’s physical body with him, leaving no sign that Matou Shinji had ever escaped the house of his birth.
…and so no one in Fuyuki suspected that he had survived when the funeral was attacked the next day, with Matou Sakura falling to a homunculus' blades, and the Matou estate burned to the ground, with everything within being consumed by white hot flames.
Happy New Year, everyone! [Worm Wand] lost, Skill: Sphere Boundary (conditional, while in fusion) gained.
Choice 5: Though stripped of his home, his past, his name, the boy who was once named Matou Shinji made it back to Mahoutokoro, and has thrown himself into learning the arts that make It is time for him to choose a focus, of course, of water, yin, or Shikigami.
Zelkova would be happiest if his master learned to master Water, given it would make Shinji more versatile, giving him more offensive options - and perhaps defeating that pesky weakness to fire. Ayaka, who he will be working with, is skilled at yin and yang manipulation and would undoubtedly be pleased to have another who can use the element well. And of course, his own Master seems to appreciate Shikigami, as additional familiars (even if simple minded and single use) are always useful.
What shall Shinji choose as a specialization this summer? (choose one)
[ ] Water
[ ] Yin
[ ] Shikigami
Last edited by alfheimwanderer; December 31st, 2015 at 09:26 PM.
Yin would be useful, spiritual attacks are something that Shinji's arsenal is lacking. But with the water being connected to Kodama i think it's better choice.
[x] Water
RIP Sakura. I knew it.
I wonder what would've happened if Shinji went straight to the funeral. In a way everything worked out for the best for him...
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
[X] Yin
Talked with Alf. Straight to the funeral without Zelkova would be Shinji arriving and then immediately leaving through an invisibility potion or something like that as there's nothing he could really do. With Zelkova he could have saved Sakura and then proceeded to have a better talk with Zouken.
If he still had the Elixir of Life on him, during this chapter, he could have given it to Zouken and none of this would've happened. And the most tragic loss of all, down the line Zouken would've remembered the past and would've started to redeem himself. Would have loved to see that.
Well the other wand is gone, but Shinji still has the water wand which wasto master his water affinity anyways. So I'm going to go with that.tradedpurchased
Last edited by Malgos; December 31st, 2015 at 09:30 PM.
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