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Thread: Matou Shinji and the Broken Chains (HP/FSN CYOA)

  1. #5621
    The Dread Nekomancer alfheimwanderer's Avatar
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    Choice 471: [x] An instructor who can help him in his current state




    Chapter 113. Tempting Oblivion

    Matou Shinji blinked mutely in the wake of Luna’s departure, his mind unable to process the entirety of what had just happened. It had been a shock when Luna had said all those things – he hadn’t known she’d felt that way, had always thought of her as the one who would support him, no matter what, even if everyone else turned against him.

    …and yet, this time she hadn’t just stood quietly by his side. She’d…left, with no hint as to when she would return, only that she would. He supposed he should be grateful for that much, at least, yet any comfort from that knowledge was faint and hollow when set against the certainty that something and irreplaceable had been lost.

    Innocence, perhaps. A layer of naivete akin to that which Tohsaka was fortunate enough to retain even now, despite how the girl had been steeped in the expectations of the moonlit world – which he had thought that he’d lost years ago, after being betrayed time and time again.

    Only to find that even now, words still had the power to wound him grievously, because as strong as he liked to believe he was, as strong as he portrayed himself as being, he knew that in reality, he was a boy who needed the praise of others to keep his sense of self intact.

    In that sense, Luna’s quiet support had meant a great deal, even if he’d never said anything out loud about it, had never told her how much he appreciated her kindness, and how she had stood by his side through everything.

    ‘Why…? What did I do wrong this time?’ he wondered, feeling utterly lost, as the outline of his body seemed to flicker, his human form wavering as his flesh shifted from smooth to scaly, fingers to claws, pupils becoming hellish and slitted. ‘Why…why?’

    A maelstrom of emotions swirled within him, pulling his unmoored consciousness towards a single point where everything vanished into primal darkness, old before mankind was young, a realm where reason did not matter, where there was no peace, only passion, only desire and its fulfilment – or if unfulfilled – rage, hot enough to melt mountains, to turn all the ocean into steam.

    It was tempting, all too tempting to slip the surly bonds of logic and simply give in, to seize the power that should – that had once been his – to—

    Rat-ta-ta-ta!

    The boy was torn from his reverie by a knocking on the door of his room.

    ‘Huh?’ he thought to himself, his mind muddled, as he hadn’t been expecting any visitors. ‘Who…who could it be?’

    Thinking that it would only be polite to check, the boy gingerly got to his feet and padded over to the door, opening it, only for whatever he would have said to die in his throat at the sight of Rachelle Lestrange before him, clad in the red and black ensemble he’d seen her in when she had first come to the island.

    "Matou," the petite blonde greeted him, as she looked him over with her silver gaze. "Are you well?" she asked, inclining her head.

    Had he more warning, or been more composed, the boy would have lied, said that things were just fine, but as it was…

    "...no," he replied, tearing his eyes from her to look instead at the ground, as his skin – his face – his body continued to waver in appearance and nature. “I…I’m not if I'm going to be honessssssssst."

    The boy blinked at the oddly sibilant syllables coming out of his mouth, and again as he ran his tongue over oddly pointed teeth.

    ‘What…’

    "Vould you like to talk, Matou?" the French Champion inquired. "I am…not ze best at vords, but I do not mind listening, if you vish.” She paused, her silver gaze noting his rather…unstable condition. “I am...not unaware of ze difficulties of suppressing ze influence of another. It might be zat I could ‘elp."

    To Matou Shinji, the unexpected offer was like a rope being thrown to a drowning man, or water being offered to a man dying of thirst in a desert. And so he was tempted – sorely tempted – to invite Lestrange into his room, to speak of his troubles and see what she had to say...to spend time with the alluring beauty who had come just as Luna had left. Yes…if one had vanished, why not replace that with another, one that was older and more beautiful, who could fit into the moonlight perfectly, why not…

    The boy grimaced as he forced those thoughts – those terrible thoughts away. Instead, he imagined he should apologize for beating her in the finals, even though he knew she wouldn't accept such a thing.

    'She has her pride, after all...'
    He knew that better than most, but though sometimes he found it easy to understand her, as she acted much like he expected a magus to, there were aspects to her that confused him, that were a puzzle, if an exciting one.

    '...much in the way that Luna is.'

    She felt much the same to him…which was why he knew that his girlfriend would probably not be happy if she came back to find him with Lestrange, however innocent the occasion might be. Especially since she was already cross with him.

    "I...” he began, shaking his head. “I appreciate the offer, but..."

    "Non, I understand, Matou," the petite blonde said solemnly. "You vill 'ave to make do alone zen." With that, she turned to go, the door just about closing behind her when...

    "Wait!" Shinji called after her.

    "Oui?" She asked, pausing in mid-step, but not turning around.

    "If you want to help, do you think if you could see if the ah...Japanese Champion is around?" he inquired, not knowing if Lestrange would actually agree. It was a long shot at best, since Sajyou Ayaka was the World Champion at present, and as such was no doubt being bombarded by all sorts of offers of wealth, power and the like, if she agreed to consult on a project, move to another nation, or whatnot. Certainly, the press would be interested in hearing from her about her thoughts on all manner of things, because important people were asked their opinions, no matter how involved they were.

    'I hope she doesn't say anything that will get me into trouble with Britain...'

    "Zat I vill not do," Lestrange replied. "If you vish for my aid, I offer to listen, or talk. No more. I ‘ave other business, Matou.”

    “…right,” the boy whispered, his shoulders slumping. “Sorry.”

    “If you do vish to speak with another, ze French journalist – Sophie – vishes to speak with you. Gabrielle also vishes to congratulate...le chevalier dragon."

    "...the Dragon-Knight?" Shinji parsed out, blinking. It wouldn’t be the first time someone from France had thought of him as a knight, but, a dragon…?

    "It is...fitting, non? For ze knight who killed ze monster...while in the guise of a dragon?"

    "...everyone knows I killed Stukov, huh?" he asked bitterly.

    "Oui. Zey believe you are un...animagus,” Rachelle explained, with Shinji’s mood souring even more at that. “Ou un...maledictus?"

    "A…maledictus?" Shinji echoed. He didn’t recall learning of such a thing from his studies, though if he was being honest, he knew that his knowledge base was woefully limited, as patched together as it was from British teachings, with a leavening of the Eastern arts. Given the “mal” at the beginning of the word, it probably was something about a curse, but beyond that… “Is that…someone who bears some kind of curse?” he asked.

    "Oui. Ze carrier of a curse of blood, destined to become a beast..." She paused, shaking her head. "Ze Russian potions instructor has brought up ze tale of Makar Zolgen, the one called Master of Wyrms. It is vat Stukov called you, yes?"

    "...that's not me! I'm not Makar Zolgen," Shinji groused in disgust. "I'm not even his grandson anymore, not after he disowned me!"

    "You are the heir of Zolgen then?" Lestrange observed.

    "...no,” the boy said, denying her words. “Didn’t I just say that he disowned me? Besides, he’s dead anyway, as is the rest of the family so…”

    But Shinji’s words guttered out abruptly. He supposed that if he had not actually been struck from the family register, then legally he would be the heir of the Matou family…and thus of Zolgen.

    ‘Ha. The irony of it…that in exiling me, grandfather might…actually have made me heir, as I am the last one standing.’

    The absurdity of that thought made him want to laugh out loud, that after so much pain, perhaps he had stumbled into the position of being the Matou heir not because of what he’d done, but because of what he hadn’t done for the family.

    …well, leaving aside the issue that he was legally dead of course.

    ‘That…is probably another can of worms.’

    After all, if he had been reported dead, and the Matou family extinct, what had become of their assets – especially the more…liquid assets the Archmagus had saved up, as the family had not been exactly poor before its demise. Did it go to Tohsaka, as the Second Owner of Fuyuki? Did it go to his mother’s relatives, whoever they were?

    ...or had it been claimed by the government?

    '...I guess I should probably ask Kaiduka about that sometime, shouldn't I?'

    He probably should, but...that was something for later. For now, he had to make up his mind on whether to talk with one of the people Lestrange had suggested, or…to be alone.

    For a moment, the boy hesitated, though the moment seemed to stretch on into eternity.

    At last though, he shook his head, his features flickering from mammalian to reptilian and back again as he did.

    "Perhaps later," he added, realizing that she couldn't see him with her back turned. He didn't really trust himself in his current state. "I..." he hesitated. "I don't really want to let Gabrielle see me like this," he explained. It would be a terrible thing if the young girl were to get nightmares because of him. "And as for the press..." he trailed off, not knowing what to say.

    "You are not...good vith people."

    "...if by people, you mean the press, then yes," he admitted. "I was bad enough when I didn't have...all this happening to me,” he reasoned. “Britain already thinks I'm a monster – I'd rather the rest of the world didn't come to agree."

    Silence hung between them for a moment, taut and heavy, before Lestrange broke it.

    "You are not un monstre," she corrected softly, finally turning to glance at the boy, an odd emotion in her silver gaze. "You are un chevalier." And almost as an afterthought, she added something else. "...et mon ami gênante."

    "Hm?" the boy asked, not having caught those last few words, as they'd been murmured more than said. "What was that?"

    "Nothing of importance," the French Champion replied. "I vill leave you to your solitude. May you...feel better."

    And with that, she walked off, no doubt to take care of some other pressing business, leaving Matou Shinji alone with his thoughts – which, it had to be said, did not make for particularly good company, given that he watched her go, part of his mind found itself appreciating the sway of her hips, the smoothness of her exposed skin, the fluid grace of her stride, the curves of her slender form, and he wondered what her legs would feel like wr—

    'What am I doing?' the boy asked himself as he wrenched his gaze away from her retreating form, only to freeze as he realized he had been licking his lips...and that his gaze seemed sharper, his fingers more claw-like...as he'd wanted to chase after her, push her down and... '...maybe I do have a problem...' he admitted. This...this wasn't like him to think about doing something like that, something so...aggressive. Not that he should be thinking about doing those sorts of things with Lestrange anyway, since he had Luna.

    ...or did he?

    His girlfriend – lover – had been...angry at him, with the words she'd said shocking him so much he hadn't been able to respond. She'd always been there, always supported him, so had it been so wrong to assume that she would continue to do so? That things wouldn't - couldn't - change?

    '...maybe,' he admitted to himself.

    It wasn't as if he hadn't changed over the years. For better, he thought, though he was sure that short-sighted people like Harry, who had let himself become a tool of the Ministry, would disagree.

    '...we've all changed.'

    And it had happened so gradually Shinji hadn't really thought about it - had the chance to think about it - until now. Save for a few minor incidents, his full attention had been focused on Sokaris, after all, given that the goal of being worthy to stand at her side seemed just as far away today as she had when he'd first learned who she truly was.

    'Change, huh...' he asked himself as he looked down as his clawed arm, willing it to return to smooth flesh, with something seeming to resist for a moment before it did. ‘Everything has…’

    He shook his head, falling into contemplation once again as the darkness within his mind ensnared him, drew him closer, ever closer to an event horizon, a boundary beyond which he could not return, as one moment stretched into two, two into four, four into eight, eight into sixteen, sixteen into thirty two, and so on, and so on, closer, and closer to infinity.

    Lost in the dark spiral of his thoughts, Matou Shinji didn't notice when Luna returned, alighting on the balcony of the room soundlessly. He didn't notice as she walked over to him and sat down on the floor beside him. Nor did he notice when she called his name, or poked him, or anything else at all, until she began to hum a curious melody, one that resonated with something inside him, a coolness like bubbles borne on a river stream that brought him back to awareness.

    'Sono te ga hiraku asu wa', he found himself thinking as Luna's voice shaped those very words, and the pendant about her neck glowed with an unearthly blue light, one that led him out of the darkness, back to the present.

    Almost as if remembering he was a living thing, not a statue, the boy began to move, blinking slowly as he came to recognize his surroundings.

    "L-Luna?" he asked, as if he wasn't entirely certain.

    The petite blonde - his lover - nodded.

    "...I'm sorry," he said, his voice barely a whisper. "I'm sorry for not...for not thinking. For not thinking of you," he added, his body trembling. "I'm sorry..."

    Luna was silent as the boy said this, the light from her pendant fading away.

    "Luna..."

    She wasn't saying anything.

    Why wasn't she saying anything?

    "Just remember this next time," the girl said lightly. "This time, you came back at least." She paused. "That is something, whatever else you did or didn't do."

    "I...Luna, I promise that--"

    "Don't make a promise if you know you won't keep it," she interrupted, with there being something utterly melancholic in her expression.

    “I…” he began again, only for Luna to speak once more.

    “There’s something else I should say,” she added. “Sajyou-san and her mentor wanted to know if you could join them for dinner."

    "I see," the boy responded, a sigh escaping his lips, as he’d been expecting something else. . "I guess that would be helpful, given..." He shook his head, recalling the various legalities and complication regarding his participation in the Championship and such - especially now that he was something of a public figure. Well, more of one anyway, though he'd never really cared about the fame or fortune that being Champion could allegedly give him, so long as he could do well enough in the eyes of Sokaris.

    'Do your best...' was what she'd told him, and he'd done his best not to disappoint. Though he had disappointed someone...Luna, because he hadn't done his best by her.

    ...and really, if he thought about it, he really, really hadn't.

    Even now, he'd apparently become so lost in his thoughts that the very world had fallen away, and all that had saved him was the vestiges of some ancient mystery. Something powerful and subtle enough to find him in the darkness, and lift his mind out of the eddies and spiral it had gotten trapped within, had
    had restored his form to one that was more human, at least temporarily.

    ‘And there’s that song…’

    The song he knew somehow, which he thought had come from his mother, but…had it?

    "Actually," he noted, looking closely at his girlfriend and the concern so clearly written on her face. "What do you think? Should I go? And if so, can you make it?"

    "Why would you go?" she asked reasonably.

    "Because it would be a good thing to discuss some of the aftermath of the Championship with them," Shinji pointed out, "especially since I'm not a British citizen, and I don't know how that will affect things. I...I didn't win, obviously. I lost the Book of Potions. I've said things..." Things that those arseholes deserve..." Things that could get me in trouble. Things that..." He paused, hesitating. "...it's not actually treason if I was never loyal to Britain to begin with, is it?"

    "No, but there are other crimes," Luna murmured. “Other things. Other levers.”

    "...of that I'm all too aware," Shinji grumbled, shaking his head. "I've...let's just say people have talked to me about that."

    "But...?"

    "I think I should talk to Kaiduka all the same, since I know he's on my side - as much as anyone in power is," he reasoned. "I'm...I'm in over my head when it comes to that, and I'm not sure if Master will tell me much. Like..." he paused again, recalling the events of this morning. "...the Americans want to buy the rights to the Potion of All Potential from me. They made what I think is a pretty generous offer too, but I'm not sure..."

    "Oh?"

    "I mean, what I'm wearing now - the reason I was able to get as far as I did was because of the Americans," he explained. "And so given that, and how polite their representative was, I feel like I should sell it. Because I don't trust Britain with it, and I don't want them to use it - to use something I made - as a weapon in their wars." He shook his head. "I...I don't know...I could be wrong. I could just be thinking things are worse than they are. It could be that Potter hasn't betrayed me for power, that the Ministry actually means well, that..." But his lips set in a grim line. "But then I remember how they declared how the Hufflepuffs who tried to murder Fleur as heroes, and I can't help but think of them all as monsters. As the very worst sort of villains. And...I'm afraid."

    There was a reason he passed the ring of Saint Quartz and his samples of Thaumatagoria to his former master to deliver to Sokaris, after all.

    "I don't know...what do you think, Luna?"

    "I think we should go and see what Lord Kaiduka has to say," she replied, shaking her head. “We’ll talk about…us later, when you are…yourself again.”

    "...thank you."




    Choice 472: Shinji discusses his current state candidly, mentioning how he hasn't been the same since...awakening after fighting the Russian. Kaiduka, with some concern, offers to examine him, finding that the boy is indeed, not fully human - that his nature is in a state of flux.

    "But then, a look at your skin could have revealed that much," the kitsune stated. "There is much less of your body and soul than there once was, with something else filling in the gaps. A sliver of something ancient and exceedingly dangerous."

    "A dragon," Sajyou Ayaka interjected.

    "Quite so," Kaiduka acknowledged. "I would offer to remove the sliver, but doing so would cause the unraveling of your existence, as that fragment is tied to what remains of you, with both pieces wrapped around the heart of an earth elemental."

    "...what does that even mean?"

    "It means that your existence is closer to that of a youkai than a human. That the powers you may access may be proportionally greater, but that you may not be able to function as well in the realm of man."

    "What." Shinji felt lost. "I...what...I'm not human?"

    "As one of those who practiced witchcraft, you were ultimately a child of twilight, neither one of those who live under the sun, nor one of those walk with death under the pale moonlight," the kitsune stated. "Fundamentally, nothing has changed except that the truth of your nature has become more...pronounced - the truth that you are a being caught in between past and present, what was and what is. Matou, what is it you wish assistance with?"

    "...having more control," the boy replied. "Being able to not just change like this. With..."

    "With the signs of your clear inhumanity written clearly on your face."

    "...more or less, yes," the boy admitted. "I don't want people to look at me as if I'm a monster. Or..." He glanced at Luna. "Or to hurt people I care about if I just lose control."

    "What has been the worst part?"

    "...the rage. The...passion..." he settled on, shuddering as he recalled how good it felt to give in, to sink into the darkness. "It promises such power if I only abandon my restraint but..." He shook his head. "Without restraint, what am I?"

    "...that is a good question, Matou Shinji, and one I believe my apprentice knows well, given her own struggles."

    Shinji glanced over at Ayaka, who merely nodded.

    "I will instruct you in some meditations while we are on the island for you to practice on your own. And I believe my Master will arrange for a more permanent tutor for you, after we leave."

    "Most generous, thank you," Shinji said, bowing.

    What else does he ask about? (choose two)

    [ ] Legal things like the pending POAP deal
    [ ] What Kaiduka expects to happen after the Championship
    [ ] There was a word in his memory...something that evokes disgust and hate for some reason. Filth. What is it?
    [ ] The Championship and Kaiduka and Yamato's take on his actions
    [ ] The British..situation, and what he thinks might happen
    [ ] (write-in)
    "You are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think." - A.A. Milne

  2. #5622
    死徒(下級)Lesser Dead Apostle
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    [x]Legal things like the pending PoAP deal
    [x]The Championship and Kaiduka and Yamato's take on his actions
    Last edited by Dracueri; February 7th, 2019 at 06:02 PM.

  3. #5623
    In retro thought, we should have not feared talking to Gabrielle, given that her mother, her sister and herself all turn into fire throwing bird monsters when enraged or other heavy emotions. That her Dragon Knight, does something similar is not likely going to freak her out, but actually might have made her give some wisdom on how to control it. If nothing else parrot something she heard her mother say to her.

    Oh the Russian Potion Instructor is saying bad things about Shinji, I forget is that the person that trained the champion that in the entire championship never brewed a single potion? Hmmmm some instructor...

    (yep push that big red button)

    [X] Legal things like the pending POAP deal
    [X] There was a word in his memory...something that evokes disgust and hate for some reason. Filth. What is it?

    Given people wanted the legal stuff before I will at least give you all that one and pick it no questions asked.

    Asking about the Filth a thing that I doubt we have seen the last of, might be fairly important. And we are talking with Yamato, someone that has experience with this stuff and outer gods. I could see voting on their opinion of his actions (the british situation Shinji has a better understanding than they do) if for no other reason then to try to balance shinji with some praise yet counter it with some harsh truth of his actions. But given that most of his actions can not be fully explained to them...then what good is their praise really?

  4. #5624
    Onirique Daiki's Avatar
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    [x] Legal things like the pending POAP deal.
    [x] The British...situation, and what he thinks might happen.

    As per our previous votes, we should see about what can be done about the PoAP deal.

    I don't think Shinji absolutely needs to learn the details about the outer gods just yet.

    Besides, there is a more pressing matter, concerning Britain, and how things go once Shinji refuses to cooperate with them. He doesn't have any connection with Britain anymore since he has accomplished his role as a champion. And as things have been brewing for the whole year, I doubt Shinji will receive a warm welcome once he tells the Wizengamot that he won't play by their rules.

    In short, he needs to discuss options with Kaiduka about what happens when Shinji isn't welcome in Britain anymore. He's still a Japanese citizen, at the end of the day. We know that the Fujou offered to be Shinji's host but we passed that offer to Rin, so he needs a more concrete back up place to return to (even if temporary), when things turn bad in Britain. His scholarship is also a concern since we don't get to pass our OWLs and all. Having a secured place in Mahoutokoro (following the war and how it affects Hogwarts' ability to teach their students) would be appreciated, even if he ends up too busy to attend.

    I'm pretty sure Durmstrang or Beauxbatons would welcome Shinji given his past dealings, but we can't be sure what kind of rules would being required to comply with, such as the matter of citizenship again. Pretty sure Durmstrang at least would have a restrictive contract, if only for the sake of their security, which they take very seriously. And with Shinji being a former Britain student, they aren't likely to take risks for his sake, no matter how cooperative he has been in the past.

  5. #5625
    異星蛸 Cysero's Avatar
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    [X] Legal things like the pending POAP deal
    [X] Write-in: Ask Kaiduka about a way to fix (and prevent new occurrences of) the gaps in his memory.

    First one is obvious.

    Second one, honestly I think this is as good an opportunity as we will get to solve what has become a recurrent enough problem before Shinji gets used to missing half of the context of the things he does or with a truly fragmented mind. Especially with the dragon issue. It will also potentially help in the event he gets AKd (again) in the coming conflict. Besides, an Alchemist's strongest weapon is their mind, he has to become resilient enough to resist things that would mind-break almost anyone else if he wants to stand besides Sion and truly be useful.

    Also has the side benefit of organically leading the conversation to the Filth stuff, from whatever memories he regains, which will come in handy in a future Atlas errand or some such. It's surely not the last time we deal with something like it.

  6. #5626
    Replace my filth vote with
    [X] Write-in: Ask Kaiduka about a way to fix (and prevent new occurrences of) the gaps in his memory.

    I can get behind this. He has little left of the old Shinji Matou soul that still held together. Working on repairing/healing it is important. Recovering whatever little bit he can to merge this new form more is a good thing.

  7. #5627
    We came here to get legal advice on our course of action, and an advice we will get. Maybe there is something we can salvage from Britain before it erupts in a dumpster fire.

    [x] Legal things like the pending POAP deal.
    [x] The British...situation, and what he thinks might happen.

    - Elder Gods are irrelevant outside of a lore discussion. It's reasonable to expect to not get involved with them for a long time.

    - Most of the actions that we may want to have evaluated by Kaiduka and Yamato happened in the Dungeon, and are [CLASSIFIED] because of it.

    - Their expectation is a shiny mystery box, full of nice plot hooks, I'm sure. Pass.

    - Memory loss is an indicator of Shinji's mind crumbling under the strain. It's a defence mechanism, we won't get around it without making Shinji stronger mentally. No reason to dally on the topic, when there are more pertinent questions to ask.
    Last edited by Malorius; February 8th, 2019 at 12:35 PM.

  8. #5628
    死徒(下級)Lesser Dead Apostle
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    Change my vote to [x]Ask Kaiduka about a way to fix (and prevent new occurrences of) the gaps in his memory.
    Last edited by Dracueri; February 8th, 2019 at 03:10 PM.

  9. #5629
    異星蛸 Cysero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malorius View Post
    - Memory loss is an indicator of Shinji's mind crumbling under the strain. It's a defence mechanism, we won't get around it without making Shinji stronger mentally. No reason to dally on the topic, when there are more pertinent questions to ask.
    Except the memory loss is literally the result of him becoming an (almost) entirely new being. Thus why he is fragmented and shifting constantly, he isn't stable. It's directly linked with trying to fix his mind and, as such, will affect how well that works if we don't fix this problem NOW.

    This is a new being identifying as Matou Shinji. There's only like 35% left of who he was, with the gaps literally filled by the Lindworm and tied around an Earth Elemental core. He will become a stronger existence than he was (in mind, soul and body), but only if he manages to become whole and stabilise, there lies the importance of fixing what we can of his memory.

    Kaiduka can't completely fix Shinji, not even the Water of Life could, since he isn't his original self anymore, down to his soul.

    What's lost is lost, but I think it's really important to repair/recover what's merely damaged or locked away. This new Shinji has the potential to become stronger if he gets as complete as he can and embraces his new identity. Just ignoring the problem won't do. We can't move forward with an incomplete existence.

    I strongly urge you to reconsider, since we won't get a chance to address this issue for a good while after leaving the island, and it's going to bite us in the ass, HARD. We'll get the advice on the PoAP deal, which is what we wanted. Time to move on to what should be the main focus.

  10. #5630
    Quote Originally Posted by Malorius View Post
    - Elder Gods are irrelevant outside of a lore discussion. It's reasonable to expect to not get involved with them for a long time.
    Unless of course if the Templars that experimented on Mischa had a reason to show up again...

    You know like if only they had a organization that was at active war with the Templars that were planning on taking over Britain in the near future that the Templars might want to stop from happening. And given that they already empowered one person with an elder god/filth, who to say they will not do it again. No, I think you are very wrong in your assessment. It will likely happen again far sooner than you seem to think. Still I at least can understand that even so that might not be the most important thing to ask about at this moment.

    Ponder this. Mischa like Shinji had no access to his ancestors magic prior to him being experimented on. Fred happens to be in a similar state and is also VERY angry at the moment about his place in life. You don't have to twist his arm to get him to take the same deal that Mischa took next year...

    Quote Originally Posted by Malorius View Post
    - Memory loss is an indicator of Shinji's mind crumbling under the strain. It's a defence mechanism, we won't get around it without making Shinji stronger mentally. No reason to dally on the topic, when there are more pertinent questions to ask.
    Yes and no it seems from talking with Alf.

    Sure it was the first few times his mind protecting himself but talking to Alf it is also because of soul damage to Shinji. And the memory lost from his rebirth as Dragon Shinji, is not his mind protecting himself at all. No this time it is cause the prior Shinji was so destroyed by the filth and the Dreamer that the information is no longer there. He has around 35% remaining of his original soul/nature left. The rest is the dragon and the earth element heart tying that small sliver of himself together into a new being.

    This time it was not a defence mechanism so your statement is flawed. There IS reason to dally on the topic. An very important reason to bring it up if fact. It is important to realized that the current Shinji is only a partial copy of the old Shinji, and that recovering as much of his old memory as possible IS important before more is lost into the either.
    Last edited by Skull Leader; February 8th, 2019 at 03:05 PM.

  11. #5631
    死徒(下級)Lesser Dead Apostle
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    Alf what happens if Shinji uses the Water of Life on his current self and does restoring lost memories increase his soul stability so he doesn't get trapped in his thoughts?

  12. #5632
    Except the memory loss is literally the result of him becoming an (almost) entirely new being. Thus why he is fragmented and shifting constantly, he isn't stable. It's directly linked with trying to fix his mind and, as such, will affect how well that works if we don't fix this problem NOW.

    This is a new being identifying as Matou Shinji. There's only like 35% left of who he was, with the gaps literally filled by the Lindworm and tied around an Earth Elemental core. He will become a stronger existence than he was (in mind, soul and body), but only if he manages to become whole and stabilise, there lies the importance of fixing what we can of his memory.

    Kaiduka can't completely fix Shinji, not even the Water of Life could, since he isn't his original self anymore, down to his soul.

    What's lost is lost, but I think it's really important to repair/recover what's merely damaged or locked away. This new Shinji has the potential to become stronger if he gets as complete as he can and embraces his new identity. Just ignoring the problem won't do. We can't move forward with an incomplete existence.

    I strongly urge you to reconsider, since we won't get a chance to address this issue for a good while after leaving the island, and it's going to bite us in the ass, HARD. We'll get the advice on the PoAP deal, which is what we wanted. Time to move on to what should be the main focus.
    Yes and no it seems from talking with Alf.

    Sure it was the first few times his mind protecting himself but talking to Alf it is also because of soul damage to Shinji. And the memory lost from his rebirth as Dragon Shinji, is not his mind protecting himself at all. No this time it is cause the prior Shinji was so destroyed by the filth and the Dreamer that the information is no longer there. He has around 35% remaining of his original soul/nature left. The rest is the dragon and the earth element heart tying that small sliver of himself together into a new being.

    This time it was not a defence mechanism so your statement is flawed. There IS reason to dally on the topic. An very important reason to bring it up if fact. It is important to realized that the current Shinji is only a partial copy of the old Shinji, and that recovering as much of his old memory as possible IS important before more is lost into the either.
    Too meta, wow. Also, not really a negative point to me? I like Shinji's current transformation, it takes the meaning of transhumanism to a whole new level. It's not like our dear protagonist is going to evaporate completely, it's just the new flesh puppet bearing an imitation of his soul will live on with the facsimile of his mind, desperately trying to find a place for his fake self in the life that doesn't belong to him. What's not to like here?

    [h+], my friends.

    Also also, calm down, we have already made a choice to deal with this "problem" by learning from a competent instructor. Our body/mind/soul balance will be the main part of such training, obviously. And, when the balance is found, I expect the complete being that would call itself Matou Shinji to be strong enough mentally to resist new instances of mental overload in the future.

    Why are you so convinced that the several hours of Shinji's life would be so important for his new persona anyway? How are those moments of a frail human mind falling apart more important than Shinji Matou's first spell, his first battle, his first kiss? The lost memories will be restored in time - or they won't be. The loss of those character moments will be a shame, but nowhere near important enough, in the grand scheme of things that is the preservation of our hero's psyche.

    I feel like you are making a mistake by giving these memories such high priority.

    Unless of course if the Templars that experimented on Mischa had a reason to show up again...

    You know like if only they had a organization that was at active war with the Templars that were planning on taking over Britain in the near future that the Templars might want to stop from happening. And given that they already empowered one person with an elder god/filth, who to say they will not do it again. No, I think you are very wrong in your assessment. It will likely happen again far sooner than you seem to think. Still I at least can understand that even so that might not be the most important thing to ask about at this moment.

    Ponder this. Mischa like Shinji had no access to his ancestors magic prior to him being experimented on. Fred happens to be in a similar state and is also VERY angry at the moment about his place in life. You don't have to twist his arm to get him to take the same deal that Mischa took next year...
    We have at least half a year until then, SL. From the narrative standpoint, such climactic confrontation can't happen until the culmination of the War. We will have a better time to ask questions about Filth, of all things, since we won't get involved in Templar intrigue without other major powers poking their noses into our affairs again (or the other way around).

    So, please, stop worrying about far, far future and focus on what will happen tomorrow, when Shinji returns to Britain.
    Last edited by Malorius; February 8th, 2019 at 04:01 PM.

  13. #5633
    [x] Legal things like the pending POAP deal.
    [x] The British...situation, and what he thinks might happen

  14. #5634
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Malgos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfheimwanderer View Post
    Legal things like the pending POAP deal
    Quote Originally Posted by Cysero View Post
    Ask Kaiduka about a way to fix (and prevent new occurrences of) the gaps in his memory.
    .

  15. #5635
    [x] Legal things like the pending POAP deal. [x] The British...situation, and what he thinks might happen

  16. #5636
    異星蛸 Cysero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracueri View Post
    Alf what happens if Shinji uses the Water of Life on his current self and does restoring lost memories increase his soul stability so he doesn't get trapped in his thoughts?
    When discussing this with Alf on IRC, he said the WoL would mend what's left of Shinji's original soul, plus repair the damaged bits. However it can't recover most of the stuff that is truly gone because the voids in his soul have already been filled with the fragments of the Lindworm and tied up by the Earth Elemental core.

    In essence, it can't revert his soul to something it no longer fully is, since the blueprints have already changed. However, it will provide a much more steady mindscape from which to begin unravelling his new circumstances safely. Hence the relevance of embracing said changes and stabilising his new existence.

    The importance of restoring what we can of his memories right now with help from Kaiduka (and finish the job later on with the Water of Life) lies not so much in recovering the memories of individual events like Malorius erroneously assumes.

    Rather, what this accomplishes (aside from giving Shinji much needed perspective about the changes he's suffered and the choices he's made, which is more of a side-effect than the main point) is to provide a secure and stable foundation upon which to rebuild and uphold the newly formed being that calls himself Matou Shinji, which, in Alf's own terms, is basically a newborn in this aspect. This explains why currently he can't control his thoughts, feelings nor body properly, and why it will only worsen if left unattended.

    It also exposes the need to focus on this aspect as a separate issue than just learning to suppress his draconic impulses, which is more a temporal fix than a true solution. This isn't an issue that will fix itself or disappear if we just ignore or cover it up. Think of the suppression as giving a crutch to someone with a broken leg, while stabilisation is the corrective surgery that needs to occur as soon as possible or else the bone heals wrong and you have 20x the amount of trouble.

    He WAS born again in a sense when he rose from the earth after dropping the Moon on the Dreamer, after all. And the tale of Shinji basically ends here if we let what survived of him (which is only about a third) slowly degrade and ultimately disappear, leaving only a puppet that will eventually crumble without a solid sense of who and what he is.

  17. #5637
    That, of course, sounds nice and all, but fails to explain why those exact memories are important to restore right now. When there are so many more important moments that make the man that is our protagonist; Shinji will not fall at the seams if we let those buried memories rest for for now. This degeneration of personality that you push forward is not something that will happen tomorrow, the process will take time - unlike our very close eviction from Britain.

    The loss of memory is not the problem, the turmoil in the false identity of Matou Shinji is. And that is an issue that is best adressed when we talk with Sion, the center of Shinji's world. We are almost at an end of the Year, after all.
    Last edited by Malorius; February 9th, 2019 at 06:49 AM.

  18. #5638
    異星蛸 Cysero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malorius View Post
    That, of course, sounds nice and all, but fails to explain why those exact memories are important to restore right now. When there are so many more important moments that make the man that is our protagonist; Shinji will not fall at the seams if we let those buried memories rest for for now. This degeneration of personality that you push forward is not something that will happen tomorrow, the process will take time - unlike our very close eviction from Britain.

    The loss of memory is not the problem, the turmoil in the false identity of Matou Shinji is. And that is an issue that is best adressed when we talk with Sion, the center of Shinji's world. We are almost at an end of the Year, after all.
    Again, it's not about a specific set of memories, it's about saving any that are still left. A good portion of them are damaged/sealed, we can't afford to lose them when we have so little left.

    Our potential "eviction" from Britain, if it even happens, is not such a huge deal, considering we'll come back for the civil war no matter what they say and our assets are more or less well protected. So it's a moot point. Also, whatever Kaiduka thinks about the conflict is irrelevant when the opinion we'll follow is Sion's, regardless of anything else.

    The loss of memory isn't the problem, it's a symptom of him losing more and more bits of his soul. I want to eradicate the problem while we have the opportunity, not cover it up/postpone it.

    Also, there is no false identity whatsoever. There is just what Shinji was and what he is now. Being told that he isn't who and what he used to be is a very different thing than accepting and truly comprehending it. Who better that a centuries-old shape-shifting youkai and his pupil to help him with dealing with these changes?

  19. #5639
    Our potential "eviction" from Britain, if it even happens, is not such a huge deal, considering we'll come back for the civil war no matter what they say and our assets are more or less well protected. So it's a moot point. Also, whatever Kaiduka thinks about the conflict is irrelevant when the opinion we'll follow is Sion's, regardless of anything else.
    Allow me to stop you right there. Our position is tenous exactly because we don't know how much the Britain can hurt us, and what we can deal with at this point. That's why we are talking with an expert here.

    Also, dont count on Sion to make our decisions for us too, she will most likely allow Shinji to deal with his affairs himself. Because, as strange as it is, Affection 100 means that she cares about our agency, even if she can manipulate it on a whim. Incidentally, that's the reason I want to discuss our memories and soul conundrum with her above all else. She is the only person I trust to give Shinji a true unbiased opinion on this matter, and present us with reasonable ways to resolve it without losing "Shinji Matou" in the process.

    The loss of memory isn't the problem, it's a symptom of him losing more and more bits of his soul. I want to eradicate the problem while we have the opportunity, not cover it up/postpone it.
    You can't eradicate this problem, period. The soul is changed, and few uncovered memories won't change the issue. This is something that we will have to deal with for quite some time, because the fundamental problem will reamain: Shinji is not really Shinji anymore.

    We have already been told that Shinji is a mess, and decided to learn from an instructor best suited to untangling our problem. That's hardly a cover up, nor is it postponing the resolution. Your worry over the details won't help us here.
    Also, there is no false identity whatsoever. There is just what Shinji was and what he is now.
    If you change every body part for an implant, change all nerve transmissions with wires, swap the brain for a neat little processor with corresponding memories of the person's life... Do you still remain you? Apparently, it's not an academic question anymore.

    But, yeah, we can all still pretend that we play Shinji, that will cause less drama. Why though? Drama is nice.
    Last edited by Malorius; February 9th, 2019 at 09:31 AM.

  20. #5640
    異星蛸 Cysero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malorius View Post
    Allow me to stop you right there. Our position is tenous exactly because we don't know how much the Britain can hurt us, and what we can deal with at this point. That's why we are talking with an expert here.

    Also, dont count on Sion to make our decisions for us too, she will most likely allow Shinji to deal with his affairs himself. Because, as strange as it is, Affection 100 means that she cares about our agency, even if she can manipulate it on a whim. Incidentally, that's the reason I want to discuss our memories and soul conundrum with her above all else. She is the only person I trust to give Shinji a true unbiased opinion on this matter, and present us with reasonable ways to resolve it without losing "Shinji Matou" in the process.
    My point is, if you care so much about anyone's thoughts on this topic, it should probably be Sion's. Kaiduka can't provide much more context on the situation Lockhart and others already haven't, he is an outsider who probably doesn't care too much about yet another civil war in Britain. He's lived long enough to see a few, and knows war never changes. She, on the other hand, will provide us with an idea of what will be expected from us before, during and after the conflict.

    Also, it's not about Sion making our decisions for us, the decision to oppose Britain has been made for a good while, given our sequential choices, and we knew beforehand the consequences this would have. And of course she will want to talk about Shinji's condition, it's a direct result of him doing what she asked, and like you said, Affection 100 means that she cares.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malorius View Post
    You can't eradicate this problem, period. The soul is changed, and few uncovered memories won't change the issue. This is something that we will have to deal with for quite some time, because the fundamental problem will reamain: Shinji is not really Shinji anymore.

    We have already been told that Shinji is a mess, and decided to learn from an instructor best suited to untangling our problem. That's hardly a cover up, nor is it postponing the resolution. Your worry over the details won't help us here.
    Hmm... it's almost as if we've been saying that Shinji has become a new
    body/mind/soul
    existence
    that is currently broken and has to be repaired, all along (THIS is the problem, not magically returning him to his old self, which is neither what we want nor possible):

    Shinji Matou 2.0: Electric Boogaloo
    Quote Originally Posted by Skull Leader View Post
    He has little left of the old Shinji Matou soul that still held together. Working on repairing/healing it is important. Recovering whatever little bit he can to merge this new form more is a good thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cysero View Post
    Except the memory loss is literally the result of him becoming an (almost) entirely new being. Thus why he is fragmented and shifting constantly, he isn't stable. It's directly linked with trying to fix his mind and, as such, will affect how well that works if we don't fix this problem NOW.

    This is a new being identifying as Matou Shinji. There's only like 35% left of who he was, with the gaps literally filled by the Lindworm and tied around an Earth Elemental core. He will become a stronger existence than he was (in mind, soul and body), but only if he manages to become whole and stabilise, there lies the importance of fixing what we can of his memory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cysero View Post
    What's lost is lost, but I think it's really important to repair/recover what's merely damaged or locked away. This new Shinji has the potential to become stronger if he gets as complete as he can and embraces his new identity. Just ignoring the problem won't do. We can't move forward with an incomplete existence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cysero View Post
    In essence, it can't revert his soul to something it no longer fully is, since the blueprints have already changed. However, it will provide a much more steady mindscape from which to begin unravelling his new circumstances safely. Hence the relevance of embracing said changes and stabilising his new existence.

    Rather, what this accomplishes (aside from giving Shinji much needed perspective about the changes he's suffered and the choices he's made, which is more of a side-effect than the main point) is to provide a secure and stable foundation upon which to rebuild and uphold the newly formed being that calls himself Matou Shinji, which, in Alf's own terms, is basically a newborn in this aspect. This explains why currently he can't control his thoughts, feelings nor body properly, and why it will only worsen if left unattended.

    I urge you to read properly. It's been explained enough times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malorius View Post
    If you change every body part for an implant, change all nerve transmissions with wires, swap the brain for a neat little processor with corresponding memories of the person's life... Do you still remain you? Apparently, it's not an academic question anymore.

    But, yeah, we can all still pretend that we play Shinji, that will cause less drama. Why though? Drama is nice.
    Qin Shi Huang says hi. Also, spare me the "muh drama" argument. We're not 12.

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