Matou Shinji and the Broken Chains (HP/FSN CYOA)

[Malorius]

Except we voted and chose the plan, Skull Leader. Don't pretend ignorance here. It wasn't best, I argued a lot, but we chose initial strike per your suggestion and had to roll with the positioning it delivered. Then we went against the plan in a suicidal rush for absolutely OOC reasons: progressing our link first and foremost. Despite the danger, despite the burden it placed on Elesa, who obviously didn't want to allow Shinji to pathetically kill himself.

Basically, the fault rests on us, the voters. But it translates in carelessness and unthinking Hero-style vigor for Shinji. Which is all kinds of unsightly.

This is not like the fight with saving Rachelle, when Shinji abandoned his group completely and dived into combat without preparation. This is entirely on us.

(On a side note, I bet we achieved what we wanted, I.e. Perseus progression and quick end of the fight, so this conversation is mostly for the sake of characterization. Let's not worsen Shinji's mindset with needless defiance of obvious flaws.)

EDIT. Wait, I didn't actually adress the main problem here somehow. Do you honestly believe that following Perseus in his desire to look cool and "save the girl" regardless of decided upon plan was a good idea? From his vote, Daiki thinks that Elesa has misjudged her abilities and would have failed in killing the beast eventually (and that Shinji could have argued that point based on our OOC knowledge somehow). Do you agree?

[Skull Leader]

Basically, the fault rests on us, the voters. But it translates in carelessness and unthinking Hero-style vigor for Shinji. Which is all kinds of unsightly.

That is very much true but we are not here to defend ourselves but Shinji. Why WE voted for it can and should be different than the defense/reasoning from Shinji's. They match up a lot but not always.

I don't have to excuse myself to Elesa, I have to merely answer her question and let her understand why Shinji made the call he did.

[Malorius]

True, this is a clear case of OOC vs. IC. But the obvious follow up on that thought is that Shinji's decisions and rationalization of those decisions spawn from the choices we make. We can't insert our OOC reasoning here, so we have to deal with it IC.

Is Shinji self-assured (I don't want to throw "arrogant" every couple of sentences, hm) enough to prove that the original plan was worse than the idea he came up with in the middle of the fight?

Is Shinji knowledgeable (e.g. precognition, in this case, methinks) enough to prove that the original plan wasn't working and Elesa would have failed, despite his best efforts to assist?

What logical rationalization can we provide and how would it paint the Heir of Worms when Elesa proceeds to dismantle our suppositions with her own - not necessarily correct, mind you - interpretation? (If not in her eyes, then in his own, obviously.)

We are colleagues here. We didn't follow the plan. We don't even know if it was successful yet! Basically, victory in the fight is the only ground we can have in this argument.

[Do we actually want to argue, btw? Or do you believe that Elesa will be a better person and acknowledge the error of her ways with these pretty uncertain positions? (Except Elesa has strong arguments of "mortal danger" and "plan" on her side, and we wield, hopefully, "victory" and a lot of "maybe"). And we will then casually stroll back to work. Maybe... Maybe not.]

However, yes, Shinji would have tried to stay true to his beliefs, despite the possible consequences. (After apologising, regardless, ugh.) What are his beliefs in this situation though?

[Malorius]

Voter presence is unusually low this time.

EDIT.

Guys, any kind of development is better than stalling because of a tie. Just throw your vote in something like

[ ] Justify your actions

or

[ ] Admit that you were wrong

or even

[ ] Distract her with new shiny Noble Phantasms you have.

Devil is, of course, in the details, but Shinji will make it from here. He is an intelligent person, after all.

@Malgos
@Skull Leader
@skulkidcachi90

Let's just move forward, this conversation won't bring the end of the quest, whatever we choose.

[EmperorBR]

I am in for an apology by shinji, so...

[ ] Admit that you were wrong

[Skull Leader]

First, Malorius I was busy so sorry about not making a write in quickly but that shit happens. If Alf wants a faster time between questions then write ins of this nature is not the way to get that result. I get rather annoyed about your tone whenever this happens, you can simply ask for us to hurry up in a more polite way.

Again, an apology means nothing if Shinji is not actually sorry or if he is going to change his behavior (cause I know I am not...I would still pick that last option) so I don't think going I am sorry is going to improve things in the long run. That and I place Elesa in the same box as Ayaka is where you do not apology to her but SHOW your change to her. Plus I do not read Elesa as the kind of person that really wants Shinji to feel sorry and apologize to her at this moment. She just wants the reason why he did his action. She is mad at the moment but this is like the one time she has been mad at Shinji and Shinji made a logical choice. It was totally better than the fire level mess. We should apologize for that one but this one is different.

[X] Explain that he deviated from the plan due to newly acquired information that was not available beforehand. After taking the Wit-sharpening potion and being fused with the sprite inside him, the properties of Bellerophon were accessed that he did not know beforehand. Continuing with the plan, risked either of them running out of energy since Shinji could not negate its attacks forever; the creature wising up to their tactics and changing the fight for the worse; or the risk of something else coming onto the battlefield from all of the energy tossed around as well as being attracted by her powered up form. The longer the fight went on, the more risky things became so he acted.

That explains his actions I believe well enough to her. She can be upset by his nature but Shinji did not do this action by giving into Percy and going LERROY JENKINS into the battle. He did put some thought into.

[Malorius]

Well, I judged the situation differently, it seems. I agree with the notion that I, myself, don't actually feel that the decision was wrong and wouldn't change the vote even with the apology in the works, since the decision (hopefully) achieved exactly what I wanted: fast resolution and Social Link advancement with Perseus before some seriously buff opponents on the next floors, but also no danger of desynchronisation of Fusion because of our soul problems. Now we are not completely hindered by Percy's presence, and may even receive some benefits in the future. Yet the knowledge and rationale for these actions was brought almost completely from outside of the scope of the character. Even if we don't feel that we are in the wrong here, objectively, Shinji is.

Shinji simply cannot be excused by such. He acted on impulse - brought by us, of course - he allowed the Heroic Spirit to guide him, he didn't care about the dangers and didn't consider other outcomes than victory, and consequently, didn't take any precautions to avoid failure. And now he is on the ground, unable to feel his body, most likely heavily injured and exhausted. How can we possibly justify such behaviour as rational IC?

I am self-aware enough to admit that this is a clear case of manipulation (or even hypocrisy) on my part to try to patch the hole in Shinji's thoughts by sincere apology... But it's much better than to deny the accusations and be be beaten by cold logic in turn.

"You have decided to act on new information by denying me protection in the middle if the fight and throwing yourself at the giant monster, is that right? Are you sure you actually thought this through?"

"So you can't admit that you were wrong even now, bleeding on the ground, can you? You are either arrogant or delusional, and I can't tell which is worse."

"You have pulled aggro from me by attacking in the melee, Shinji. What's wrong with you? You are a support, not tank/dps like me! Ever heard of party composition before? OMG what a n00b..."

This way, at least, we preserve a token amount of Shinji's dignity by remaining objective and forthright. (And, hopefully, avoid throwing our life in danger without clear IC reason in the future. Wouldn't hold my breath, but still.)

I guess, we'll just have to stay by our convictions then.

[Skull Leader]

Huh, I don't Shinji's reason behind his action in this case as any different as mine. In this case I (we) were acting as the brain of Shinji and had to make a choice. Sure we do make choices based on outside knowledge and our own feelings but as long as there is some thought to making the choice as in character I think that is ok. And to me there was a clear reason why to throw himself into his action. Cause she told Shinji that using her power attracts other powers/creatures.

Since we do have a in game reason of justifying Shinji's acquired knowledge of the Bridle IE the better connection by fusion with a more awake Percy. Now the issue is that Shinji is also the type to charge into danger to help a girl out...and that is where Percy, Shinji and ourselves came to agreement. The only thing Shinji can really apology for is that he takes big risks and does not value danger to himself as much as others. That he is so very much like Percy it hurts might be the main issue here. And for that he needs someone looking out for him as well as suppressing his nature (and ours). Usually that is Luna but at the moment he is around Elesa who has not the time or the drive to play that game. No she is attempting to knock sense into Shinji and stamping it out.

But better people have tried Elesa. Had she just ordered from the beginning to not deviate from her plans and to just follow her lead and orders, then we might have followed that...well for a while at least.

[Malorius]

Well, if you are still willing to discuss the matter, I am obliged to do the same.

First of all, Shinji IC had only very few indications that his adaptation will be this rapid. Mostly, we heard some very unpleasant things about our long-term survival chances from Elesa, and that's it. On the other hand, Alf has given us enough hints that we can manage to pull synchronization off in the short span of the dungeon. So no, I think that our decision was heavily influenced by OOC information. It's not really a criticism, it's just the nature of the medium, mostly.

And to me there was a clear reason why to throw himself into his action. Cause she told Shinji that using her power attracts other powers/creatures.

That's a good reason. A rational reason. A reasonable reason. Just not, uh, relevant reason.

You see, by telling her this we implicitly call her judgement in question. We tell her that she didn't judge her power and skills right when we chose our roles before the fight. (Yes, in that mythical planning session that I assume happened behind the scenes before the fight, since the alternative - that we decided on the sneak attack and chose to wing the rest - is just too sad to consider.) It's not a new information, we knew it before the fight. So the only reason it would have been relevant was the chance of impending failure of the plan. Were there any indications of failure? Did anything imply that our approach wasn't working? Unless you can prove that point, Shinji's actions will remain needlessly reckless.

I really hope that you can do it too, you know. I take no pleasure from once again gritting the teeth and embracing humility. But without semi-reliable evidence, our words will remain a speculation.

[Daiki]

[X] Explain that he deviated from the plan due to newly acquired information that was not available beforehand. After taking the Wit-sharpening potion and being fused with the sprite inside him, the properties of Bellerophon were accessed that he did not know beforehand. Continuing with the plan, risked either of them running out of energy since Shinji could not negate its attacks forever; the creature wising up to their tactics and changing the fight for the worse; or the risk of something else coming onto the battlefield from all of the energy tossed around as well as being attracted by her powered up form. The longer the fight went on, the more risky things became so he acted.

Close enough to my initial write-in. Let's just move forward.

[alfheimwanderer]

Choice 422: [X] Explain that he deviated from the plan due to newly acquired information that was not available beforehand. After taking the Wit-sharpening potion and being fused with the sprite inside him, the properties of Bellerophon were accessed that he did not know beforehand. Continuing with the plan, risked either of them running out of energy since Shinji could not negate its attacks forever; the creature wising up to their tactics and changing the fight for the worse; or the risk of something else coming onto the battlefield from all of the energy tossed around as well as being attracted by her powered up form. The longer the fight went on, the more risky things became so he acted.

Choice 423: [x] What happened to the lindworm?; [x] Where are they, and what is the plan?; [x] Why can't he feel anything below his neck?

---

"Why can't you feel anything below your neck?" Elesa repeated quietly. "That's simple - I disconnected your nerves for a bit, so I could repair the damage you did to yourself. Both to your prosthetics and your remaining limbs."

"Oh," Shinji echoed soberly. "How...how bad is it?"

"The venom of a lindworm is only slightly less potent from that of a basilisk," she replied tersely. "That, coupled with the extreme prana usage from activating a Noble Phantasm, could have crippled you."

"...oh." Shinji swallowed, or tried to, only he couldn't. "But...?"

"I managed to patch you up for now, with the help of some of the potions I brewed," the American Champion related. "You should have the creator of your prosthetics give you a checkup after we finish though."

With a sign, she did I something, and utter pain shot through the boy's body, as if she had poured molten metal into him.

"...ow," he managed to choke out when the worst of it had passed. "Zelkova?"

"Your familiar has gone dormant once more to regenerate from damage," Elesa mentioned. "He took the brunt of the spiritual damage, so that you merely needed to contend with the physical."

"Oh."

"You may still use abilities such a fusion, but with a malus - it may be more difficult or less sustainable. You will also have nothing to buffer you from the direct effects of interfacing with Perseus."

"Ah."

"As to the lindworm, you took control of it for a moment before you passed out, whereupon, I wiped it out. I similarly defeated the Selma and the Sphinx on the next two floors. Now, the final battle of the Trial of Force awaits. You may want to take a potion or some such, as it will no doubt be more difficult than the lindworm."

Choice 424: How will Shinji face the final boss?

[ ] Fused - better to have some damage reduction, even if controlling its abilities will be more difficult
[ ] In his normal form, calling upon Perseus' noble phantsms
[ ] Defer to Elesa

Choice 425: Whatever he chooses, does he take any of the following actions to help him possibly survive this? (choose as many as you like)

[ ] Use a Command Seal
[ ] Take a Dose of Potion of All Potential
[ ] Take other potions
[ ] (write-in)

[skulkidcachi90]

Poor elesa, she reserve better.

[Daiki]

At this rate, Shinji should have developed an immunity to a wide range of common poison and venoms (at least he should be immune to common snake bites and the like) by the end of the trial. Well, at least we unlocked the first mount achievement, right Alf?

[x] Fused - better to have some damage reduction, even if controlling its abilities will be more difficult.

[x] Take one dose of PoAP + Girding + Wit-Sharpening + Strengthening + Vitamix (This one to take during the fight and not at the start). Use a Command Spell. Offer one dose of PoAP to Elesa.

No holding back at this point, the boss is a full-fledged DAA level boss or close to. I doubt it would be a stretch to consider him close to a mid-tier servant level at the very least.

If possible, for that specific encounter I would also swap prana emission control for some physical defense on the agent outfit.

Unleash everything on the guy (no I don't think it's overkill), we will restock on whatever if we get to pass this floor. I am willing to burn a Command Spell since this boss is the main obstacle between Shinji and the lesser data bank / partial archives required to fulfill Sion's request on a basic level. We could always give up on completing the temple but we absolutely need to destroy that guy, who is in the way of our goal.

We can afford to lose our right to participate in the Grail War (since we are free of the Matou obligations after being banished) but we can't afford to disappoint Sokaris. Especially after getting this far on the Isle.

Also, think of the sweet loot that awaits right beyond this tenth floor.

Even if Perseus take over Shinji's admin privileges, the enemy is sufficiently challenging than even the hero would take the fight seriously. We obviously will need to use Harpe on the boss to stop his super regen so we need Perseus NPs. Not like we have enough firepower to maintain decent dps by ourselves anyway.

So yeah, more work for Shinji's new (imaginary?) friend. A shame that Zelkova is still out but we will have to manage without him.

Give Elesa her PoAP dose now, in case things turn bad and she needs to overpower the boss. Otherwise, she gets to save it for her last encounter at the bottom floor. I'm sure she can manage without the dose if she gets 100% serious during this fight but she likely spent a good deal of power on those last floors and healing Shinji. So there.

[skulkidcachi90]

Did se really want to give the POAP to the iluminación?.

What would Sion Think about that.

[Skull Leader]

Did se really want to give the POAP to the iluminación?.

In a word, no. Don't mind Sion handing it to her ally in a trade but currently it is beyond Shinji's paygrade to decide that.

As for your ideas Daiki, I agree that we need to throw anything and everything into this to win. But given the lack of barrier against Percy without Zelkova around, I am not sure Fusion is a good idea. It has never been tried without Zelkova and the balance is going to be off to the point that whatever little benefits are left will not be worth much. Shinji is not going to be incontrol and is likely to make things worse with Elesa than they already are.
Shinji is also likely to stress his body to the breaking point if he channels Percy while fused. Thought, I am not likely the probability that he burns himself without fusion trying to use his powers. But regardless what way we fall the PoAP should help on that front.

The command seal is not something I really want to use at this time. I would like Shinji to at least have one useable Seal, on top of the seal required for Percy to be around, when he goes into the HGW. A Command seal should only be used in great desperation, as a get out of jail card so to speak.

And I might be wrong but I thought we only had one dose of Wit-sharpening and we used it.

[X] Defer to Elesa
I might not want to apologize to her but I think we own her this, to defer to her judgement. Course I am not making promises to keep it for the entire fight.

[X] Take a Dose of Potion of All Potential and any remaining enhancement potions Shinji has.

PS- At some point we need to start a drinking game to take a shot every time we hurt Zelkova and cause him to go into a coma. The little guy is a trooper but it seems we go out of our way to test him. Maybe it is his lot in life.

[alfheimwanderer]

In a word, no. Don't mind Sion handing it to her ally in a trade but currently it is beyond Shinji's paygrade to decide that.

Ah, but right now, Shinji is not deciding whether to give the potion to the Illuminati. He is deciding whether to share it with an ally who has gone out of her way to save his life on several notable occasions.

[Skull Leader]

Ah, but right now, Shinji is not deciding whether to give the potion to the Illuminati. He is deciding whether to share it with an ally who has gone out of her way to save his life on several notable occasions.

That I am not so against, after all she certainly has shared her resources. If I thought she would use it, then sure. But would she?

[skulkidcachi90]

[x] Take one dose of PoAP + Girding + Wit-Sharpening + Strengthening + Vitamix (This one to take during the fight and not at the start). Use a Command Spell

[Malorius]

Really, guys? I go away for a couple of days, and you want to waste a Command Seal? When we have already decided to take PoAP for this boss? Where is your resource distribution strategy, did you suddenly forget that we have more challenges after this? Or maybe the casual ease Elesa displayed in actually clearing the dungeon without our unplanned distractions has driven you to excess from happiness, hm?

No offence, but it doesn't seem smart to me.

We need those Command Seals. It's Fourth Year. We have a long way to go until the Grail War! Do you honestly expect that we will not encounter some great and terrible odds in the future? Without Elesa, without PoAP (since we intend to use at least one in the very close future and give one to Sion), what will our trump card be? We have only two left, and one of them is reserved for the War!

Ah, right. I see. Some of us don't actually care about the Grail War. Right, right. Well, we have a democracy here, the will of majority to guide us. So let me present my opinion for our decision process.

[x] Fused - better to have some damage reduction, even if controlling its abilities will be more difficult

Synergistic with PoAP. Any problems with control will be solved my the superior skill and experience, so. And yes, we need some basic protection here, at the very least.

[X] Take a Dose of Potion of All Potential and any remaining enhancement potions Shinji has.

We don't need the Seal for this fight. We don't need to win this instead of Elesa. We don't need to throw Noble Phantasms and fling majestically destructive spells with wild abandon. Above all else, IC, Shinji needs to be a good support for Elesa's overwhelming power. OOC, we aim to learn Shinji's caps and most interesting skill trees. IC and OOC, our goal is to advance. To pass this floor and enter the challenge of our character. Not wits, not strength. Of will. We will face the "Most difficult opponen(s) for Shinji". The nature of the challenge implies that we will do it alone. Will we require PoAP for it? Hard to say. It's possible, but not very probable (not Strength, remember). It will serve us well to be prepared though.

In the end, the current challenge isn't what Shinji aims to pass. With Elesa on his side, as exploitative as it sounds, we are almost guaranteed a pass. With a designated Legendary Potion - the pinnacle of the inhuman abilities of wizards! - taken, we will even pull our weight for once. What's more that you want?

We don't need to show off to Elesa. We will do this job for Sion, - and move forward, towards our next goal.

EDIT. Alf, I notice the distinct lack of argument between Elesa and Shinji about her apparent dangerous ability to attract bad monstrosities. And which would have surely been very very detrimental for our chances with Lindsy. It would have
definitely influenced our decision here, I assure you.

I notice that Elesa has casually wiped out a couple of floors again, though. Without any problems too, huh. Curious dichotomy, that.

[Malorius]

Skull Leader, do you really think it wise to defer to Elesa here? She has no experience dealing with PoAP and its effects. No one does.

even if controlling its abilities will be more difficult

It's about control, not inherent ability.

We take PoAP. OOC, we can safely assume that our debuff will be covered by the skill increase Potion. More or less. Because the reflection of Perfect!Shinji is supposed to be worthy of his Perfect status. Namely, his ability to both control the Fusion and maintain necessary level of detachment from Perseus has to be as ideal as possible (for Shinji). So, uh, I'm pretty sure he will deal with it.

Regardless, it will help us reach the full Potential, so it's something to consider.

Will it hurt Zekova though? Hopefully, not too much, especially with PoAP. But, even if it does, we do have an emergency here. Alf, could you please elaborate what Shinji/Elesa think about detrimental effects of Fusion here?