On the level of True Magic =/= True MagicOriginally Posted by Asunder
Blame JP > E turns of phrase.
On the level of True Magic =/= True Magic
Blame JP > E turns of phrase.
My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
This remains an unfolding mystery, a manifold paradox with the resolution buried somewhere in Japanese FGO memes.
good fic. There's one thing I'd like to mention though.
They already know Solomon is Reishifting, or doing something close to Reishifting.＠Dr.ロマン
不明？ いや、これはむしろレイシフトに似てるか？[r]そんなはずはないぞ、カルデア以外にこの技術は……！
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Short Answer:
Magecraft is what is "possible." Magic is what is "not possible." The flawless, uncontested incarnation of a deceased soul has never been "possible," and falls thus in the domain of Magic.
Long Answer:
"Possible" and "Impossible" are categories given meaning by the Common Sense of Man (人理); the Common Sense dictates whether or not a given phenomenon is "possible," but this dictation is relevant only within the spatial domain controlled by humans. Over time, the pool of 'possible' phenomena evolves via the advance of science, but it can't be understood as a simple increase in size.
Though what becomes 'possible' via scientific or technological means increases over time, a vast amount of phenomena thought to be 'possible' in earlier worldviews is gradually invalidated, and rendered pseudoscience; much of what was 'possible' according to common wisdom in 3000 BC is now 'impossible' per a modern comprehension of scientific principles. Thus, there may in fact be a net decrease in the pool of 'possible' phenomena as human understanding of the world improves.
The net gain from this for humanity is that concepts assimilated into the Common Sense that are deemed 'invalid' can no longer occur naturally anywhere within the human domain. For example, even if in mythical Greece, humans were able to lift multi-ton boulders with sufficient physical training, this sort of capability is considered an anatomical impossibility to modern humans. Thus, exceptional abilities that could be a threat to humanity overall vanish generation by generation.
In contrast to "Magic," which is the rendition of outright 'impossible' phenomenon, "Magecraft" is explicitly defined as a mechanism by which to reenact phenomenon defined under the Common Sense as 'possible.' The magecraft that existed in 3000 BC, however, was capable of achieving far more than modern magecraft, as the pool of 'possible' phenomenon was larger then. When we say that "ancient magecraft is closer to the level of Magic than modern magecraft," we really mean that it is (or was) more capable rejecting the 'modern' dictates of the Common Sense -- within the context of modernity.
tl;dr -- The pool of phenomenon that Solomon is capable of reenacting via his knowledge of magecraft is limited to what was considered 'possible' according to the Common Sense in the era in which he lived.
Though, much of this pool would be considered 'impossible' now, it was 'once considered possible,' and therefore remains within the domain of magecraft -- unable to perfectly reject the dictates of the Common Sense. Magic does not possess this limitation; it is capable of outright ignoring the Common Sense.
Flawless manifestation of a deceased soul to reality, uncontested by either Alaya or Gaia, is considered an impossibility. Within the history of mankind, it has never been considered 'possible' -- and it is therefore not within the purview of magecraft.
Solomon is the King of Magecraft presumably because he is not a True Magician; if he were a True Magician, then presumably he wouldn't be called the King of Magecraft. Ergo, 'impossibility' is beyond his power -- and the flawless, uncontested manifestation of a deceased soul has never existed within the pool of 'possible' phenomena that could be reenacted via his knowledge of magecraft.
They didn't confirm it to be anything. Initially, Doctor Roman describes it as an unidentified phenomenon that involves spatial distortion -- but then changes his mind, saying that it might be similar to leyshift. In the subsequent dialogue, Solomon says that he can freely incarnate himself out of the void, of his own free will. That ends up being the generally accepted explanation for the phenomenon.[Dr.ロマン]
みんな気をつけて！地下空間の一部が歪んでいる……！
何かがそこへ出現するぞ！サーヴァントの現界とも異なる不明の現象だ！
不明？ いや、これはむしろレイシフトに似てるか？そんなはずはないぞ、カルデア以外にこの技 術は……！
What's being said in this fic is, "Oh, so it really was just leyshift."
Last edited by fallacies; April 10th, 2016 at 04:53 PM.
Right, but that possibility is on the table. As in, I don't think it should be that big of a surprise.
Furthermore, Solomon just says he resurrected himself and sublimed himself into a HS. Which is what I believe you mean when you say "incarnating himself out of the void."
That and the spatial phenomenon are never implied to be connected to one another.
Last edited by You; April 10th, 2016 at 10:12 PM.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Actually, thinking about it in the shower, if you want to draw that connection in fanfiction that's totally fine. Not going to argue it.
Last edited by You; April 10th, 2016 at 10:27 PM.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Q11. Did you really expect to win on rhetoric alone?
Solomon breaks his silence.
"Your imagination is to be commended," he says, "but outside a court of law, rhetoric is no shield against inevitability. Even were your every exhalation the essence of truth, it remains irrefutable that the men of this world must now confront the Day of Judgment bereft the protections of Mystery. This is their wish -- the logic of their demise. I have merely given it substance."
He smiles.
"Indeed," he says, "you proffer no evidence of having succeeded my office."
The King of Magicians presumes his victory on the conviction that you've been defeated.
The time has come to disabuse Solomon of his assumptions.
Without verbal aria, you disengage the effects of Monte Cristo Mythologie. No change in your outward appearance ensues, but implementation of identity falsification ceases; your presence is again that of a Grand Servant, and the odic pressure that emanates from the cloaked figure at Mashu's side regresses to levels that one might expect of a thaumaturgical puppet.
"TRISMEGISTUS_Hermetica," you call. "Report query status."
Into the space behind you, there projects a holographic image: A massive marble statue carved in the classical style, depicting a bearded tricephalic god.
[Leyshift trace-route complete,] states a disembodied voice, slightly mechanical in diction. [Origin world-line designation resolves to: u.002466 @ 2004. Register destination?]
"Confirm," you reply.
[Acknowledged.]
"And that's a wrap," you say. "U two-four-six-six is the name of the reality that you and Grand Assassin are projecting in from. Ergo, I've just now registered as a leyshift destination a confirmed timeline where the Foundation of FATE is undamaged enough to allow the summoning of at least two Grand Servants. If I bothered to search, I could probably do better." You smirk. "Seems like this world isn't so doomed after all, yes? Nevermind the fact that I come from a timeline where we didn't actually need Grand Servants to survive in the first place."
Solomon makes a noise with his mouth.
"Foolishness," he says. "The summoning of a Grand Servant is-"
"-categorically denied by FATE?" you interrupt. "Yeah, I'm aware. You've had opportunity enough to sabotage the system, after all." Folding your arms beneath your breasts, you tilt your head. "But you know? Two hundred years is a very long time."
Drifting at equal distance from the walls untainted by Solomon's brood, a multitude of holographic formalcraft circles deploy into hexagonal array -- radiating a pale blue light against the crimson brilliance of CHALDEAS. From the circles, hundreds of swords begin to protrude; but rather than shooting forth as projectiles, they fall and shatter harmlessly to the floor in fragments of light.
With a gesture of his arm, Solomon envelops himself and Grand Assassin in a hemispherical barrier, shielding them from the indignation of being rained upon.
"Black Keys?" he asks in disinterest. "The petty trifles of the Apostolic See are of no worth before Solomon the Wise. Should you take to mockery of the King of Heroes, I would rather advise that you adopt a better grade of weaponry."
"Weapons?" you ask. "Nah, these aren't weapons. All of this is just random trash that I'm cannibalizing for Mana-Prisms."
You raise a forefinger to the holograms overhead.
"But that up there?" you say. "That's the Heroic Guardian Deployment Module, SYSTEMA/FATE_Excursus -- my Noble Phantasm. It's FATE 4.0, essentially -- a full-system revamp of the old Lord Camelot framework, minus any of the hard restrictions you snuck into its predecessor."
"And does a child's spiritual evocation prop present a viable solution to your dilemma, Daughter of Eve?" Solomon asks. "As a Noble Phantasm, its Mystery holds no offensive advantage -- and for the specific purposes of summoning a Grand Servant, it remains virtually impotent irrespective of your efforts. Indeed, of what worth is it?"
The King of Magecraft seems determined to make light of you. Perhaps you've finally managed to hurt his pride?
"You know?" you say, stepping past your companions. "For a Heroic Spirit to mount a proper defense against an existential threat, they need to be present at a hundred percent capacity. Simply replicating the capabilities of a legendary figure into a flawed spiritual container doesn't cut it -- and so, in the summoning of any Grand Servant, Alaya makes allowances that it normally wouldn't. The actual soul of a hero is called forth unadulterated -- insinuated directly into the World."
You stop on the metal walkway, a bare four meters from Solomon.
"TRISMEGISTUS," you say, "ranks the existential priority of Grand Servants to Class SSSR -- which translates to a summoning probability significantly lower than a hundredth of a percent. So, you're right. Utilizing a system derived from FATE, it's practically impossible to roll a Grand Servant -- even if the management isn't actively sabotaging your chances of drawing of a higher-priority Servant. However ..."
Holding out your hand, you snap your fingers -- and the space before CHALDEAS is abruptly full of stars. In the still air, countless rainbow-colored gems silently gleam.
"... because it's a non-zero probability," you say, "what happens if I try rolling for 'Solomon the King' with two hundred years' worth of Quartz?"
Last edited by fallacies; April 11th, 2016 at 12:26 PM.
Absolutely brilliant. Now we see the true face of the existential threat that Humanity must overcome, an existence without material form but unending in working to prevent utopia. Ensuring that one's realized goal is eternally ever distant.
Colloquially known as the Rank ■All the Spooked Rolls of the WorldDesire Sensor
Last edited by Asunder; April 10th, 2016 at 11:31 PM.
Now does the title truly make sense.
I'm dying of laughter and anticipation. Thanks, falla.
My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
All this technobabble has me totally lost, but I get the feeling something really badass is about to happen.
...Why is she trying to summon Solomon, though? Not only is Solomon already there, but wouldn't summoning another him (if that were even possible, considering Grand Servants are explicitly the original soul and not duplicates) just worsen matters? I must be severely misunderstanding something...
This won't be explained in Q12, but Q13 will cover it.
I was a bit confused by the 'humour' claim in the OP. But oh god I definitely get it now.
Spoiler:
Q12. How much Quartz can you recover from the belly of a whale?
Saint Quartz.
The crystallization of potential; of kaleidoscopic futures uncollapsed to a single possibility. In the distant past, the holiest of the blades borne by the King of Knights was forged of a similar material.
Desiring that Servants summoned by FATE would hold the capacity to defy the prophesied apocalypse, the scientists of Chaldea selected this substance as a standardized catalyst, despite its relative scarcity. Instruments were created to discern its presence at short range, and to isolate individual crystals for quantum transmission to remote holding vessels. Being fundamentally conceptual in nature, the rainbow-colored pseudo-mineral is amongst the few physical existences capable of surviving leyshift.
For two hundred years, you sought to amass Quartz by every available channel -- through excavation; by whaling on the high seas; by way of purchase; and as compensation for services rendered. At some point, it stopped feeling like a means to an end, and more a testament to the long path that you've walked -- proof of the time and effort you've expended to right your wrongs.
The next words you utter have been two centuries in the coming.
"Lord Babylon," you call, pacing forth. "Forge of the Never-Ending Dystopia!"
The Black Keys no longer rain. In their cessation, the Quartz above you is successively annihilated, and arcs of electricity crackle loudly along the walls. The figures of kings and warriors, heroes and villains manifest and disperse at mounting acceleration within each arrayed formalcraft circle -- too quickly for the human eye to follow.
In the air about your raised right arm, seven rings of glowing runic script blaze into visibility -- each revolving in the direction opposite its neighbors.
Anticipating an attack of some sort, Solomon raises his arms before him.
"Yam Ha-Nechoshet," he intones, snarling.
From his body, a wave of darkness emanates -- rushing outwards with a gust of freezing wind. It's a claiming of territory, you know. Chaldea now belongs to him, and the very space around you bends to his jurisdiction. In this domain, magecraft is invalidated as an action permissible to humans.
Fortunately, FATE_Excursus doesn't have a definable location, and performs Servant summoning as an automated process. 'Remotely' projecting select results to your immediate environs happens not to qualify as a crushable spell effect.
"Let the Foundation be of Stone and the Archduke of the Covenant," you say. "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." Smugly, you smile. "And from Seventh Heaven, come forth within the Rings of Binding!"
Three meters away, Solomon's eyes widen enough for you to see the black of his sclera; his fingers have begun to disintegrate. The Summoning of the Heroic Spirits is not a Mystery so easily impeded. Its reach, in fact, exceeds the boundaries of Worlds.
"Impossible!" he yells. "The Beit Ha-Mikdash is fully establ-"
Before he finishes speaking, his body has crumbled to motes of golden light.
Last edited by fallacies; April 18th, 2016 at 06:45 AM.
The scary thing is that it really makes so much sense, I really wish this sort of twist really happened in GO.
Q13. Does it hurt more if I slap your face with a wad of hundred-dollar bills?
Solomon is teleported a mere three meters; his throat is now within the grip of your hand, and you've burned a Command Seal to keep him there. Unsustained by his powers, Grand Assassin disperses in the distance.
Now that the tables have turned, you're free to speak your mind.
"As your successor, I wanted to teach you something about futility," you say. "It's why I dragged out the confrontation for so long, carefully explaining all of the logic leading up to my attack. It's why I bothered to tell you who I am, specifically. Everything comes crashing down harder when the person who stomps you into the ground is objectively weaker than you in every way, and defeats you using a method you consider to be utterly idiotic."
Your Strength attribute as a Grand Servant is only a D. However, Solomon is one entire rank below you. In his present disposition, it's becoming difficult for him to breathe -- and so he kicks his legs, struggling as you lift him slightly off the floor.
As a Servant, he doesn't actually need air -- but some addictions are hard to kick.
"Feels nice being helpless, doesn't it?" you say. "Because of your nature as a Grand Servant, your actual soul is now within my grasp -- manifested under a Foundation that you've personally degraded to banality. Your capacity to deny the laws of the Common Sense no longer exceeds that of any Servant in this room."
Bending your arm, you draw his face closer to your own.
"You know the biggest reason you lost?" you ask. "As I've hinted, it's because you're the King of Magecraft. Everything you're capable of achieving can be matched or exceeded by means within the Common Sense, given enough time, resources, and effort." In your left hand, you materialize a fragment of Saint Quartz. "It so happens that the countermeasure I've prepared against you is precisely the crystallization of those three concepts."
"Wh- what are you talking about?" he asks. "S- Saint Quartz?"
"No," you say. "Not specifically, at least. I'm talking about the value of money -- the oldest Mystery known to human civilization." You shove the Quartz against the skin of his cheek. "Time, effort, and resources. For a hundred thousand years, these have been the things intrinsically represented in coinage -- and in the end, Saint Quartz is just another denomination of currency."
"N- nothing so pedestrian as money could best the Mysteries of antiquity," he shouts, grasping your arm. "The existential priority of a Grand Servant does not-"
"And yada-yada-yada to you too," you say, snapping the Quartz in your hand. "You can't buy justice with money, but happiness actually isn't all that expensive."
Behind you, Ryougi Shiki blinks -- surprised to find her injuries gone, and her prana pool charged to its limit.
"And for my final trick," you say, dramatically, "I'll be purchasing with nothing more than pocket money the permanent removal of a soul from the Throne of Heroes." Turning your head, you glance to your companions. "If you'll do the honors, Shiki-san?"
With a serious expression, Shiki nods -- drawing her katana from its sheathe.
"With pleasure, Master," she says.
Last edited by fallacies; April 14th, 2016 at 01:02 AM.
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
A1. A victory purchased is no victory at all.
Hacking TRISMEGISTUS, Da Vinci-chan forcibly disengages the lockdown on the facility, releasing the steel plates that block the way to the entrance lobby. Beyond the glass doors that lead out to the helipad, the darkness before dawn has passed.
It isn't yet winter, but in the morning light, your breath frosts in the fresh mountain air.
"Do you really have to leave?" asks the girl standing besides Mashu. "There's still so many things that I wanted to ask you ..."
Sadly, you smile at her.
Her future is no longer your past. When the sun rises again, she'll embark upon an adventure that you know nothing of -- for which your every bit of wisdom and experience would only be a hindrance.
Yours is a history of mistakes. Hers is a future of unlimited potential. This is the way that things should've been, long ago. This is the epilogue that you fought for, and failed to reach.
"Don't worry," you say to her -- to yourself. "You'll be fine without me. Whatever hardships you face; whatever difficulties you'll have to endure -- just remember one thing: Persevere, and have hope. That way lies the path to tomorrow."
With those words, you pat her on the shoulder and turn away into the sunrise. No further goodbyes are necessary; you have the utmost faith that she'll succeed in any endeavor she commits to.
After all, she has, once before.
This is the Rite of Succession: The Grand Order.
~/{+}/~
When Alaya's sustenance ceases, and you've finally dispersed to golden dust, the girl says to herself, "Someday, I'm gonna be just as loaded as future-me."
Mashu shoots her a worried look.
"I don't think that's actually a healthy goal to work towards, Sempai ..."
Wow. What an ending. Looking forward to the extra chapters!
For some reason, I'd totally forgotten about the 'original' Gudako when ours was revealed to be one from the future. Considering she thinks in her reveal chapter "I'm not the Gudako Mashu refers to as Sempai" I'm guessing they did a swap-and-replace sometime prior to the final battle?
Also, if Gudako was from the future and knew Romani was Solomon from the start, why'd she go along with his scheme up til' the very end? I mean, I suppose she wouldn't have necessarily known about his plans to depower all Heroic Spirits through the FATE system, but you'd think she'd at least know not to take everything he's saying at face value. If she went along with it just for the sake of making his eventual defeat all the more ignominious, then that seems awfully risky for a supposed 'defender of humanity'.
Don't get me wrong. The story was great, I'm just... a little confused at certain parts.
GRAND ASSASSIN // Magdalena
Servant Card (Risque)
Master // Solomon the Wise
Alignment // Lawful Good
STR C
END C
AGL A
Mana D
Luck E
N.Ph EX
The bearer of the Blade and Chalice, who stands beneath the shadow of the Cross. The one called the Woman of Magdala; custodian to the sacraments unseen.
Of the entourage kept by the Saint in his travels of the Orient, there was one who stood apart from his disciples: A woman who partook not of prayer, and clad herself in the garb and mannerisms of a harlot.
To the faithful, it was inexplicable that a woman of vice would be tolerated amongst them -- but she was at the word of the Saint himself permitted to linger. Thus, after the daughters of the goyim who would profane their flesh at the behest of false deities, she was in mocking whispers called by the name of Qedesha -- the consecrated one, set aside for God.
The circle of Apostles were privy to a different truth:
Steeped in desperation to heal her sickly brother; in the blackest of arts that were the instinct and birthright of the men of Arzareth, she had before the Saint come as the dagger of his adversaries -- the first among assassins.
To answer her enmity, the Saint granted salvation. Shattering first the knives borne of her curses, he cast from her the demons that had come of her pain and passions, which twisted her further to distortion with every invocation of her ancestral craft. Thereafter, on finding her sibling, he bestowed upon him a miracle -- reversing the wasting ills that had consumed his limbs.
In gratitude -- unable to render restitution by the familiar means of the flesh -- the woman pledged herself to the protection of her benefactor, vowing to see him unharmed unto the termination of his pilgrimage; his appointed hour of judgment.
Her service did not end upon the hill of Golgotha. It did not end on the Day of Resurrection, or in the wake of the empty tomb. By the Pentecost, she had witnessed the birth of his legacy, and had come to understand that her debt was best repaid not to the man, but to the house that he had built -- the ministry he had founded.
It was in this conviction that she consigned herself to the shadows of the Rock and the Cross -- wielding her knives anew to secure and safeguard the foundation of the Holy Church.
Skills
Domain Imposition // Rank EX
By way of distortion, the Servant is able to regulate her immersion within the Domain of Man, controlling the extent to which she is percievable to humans. Differing from 'Presence Concealment,' upwards amplification of presence is possible, and suppression of existence may be initiated even in the midst of a hostile action. This skill also permits the bypassing of spatial obstructions, such as the perimeters of bounded field.
Witchcraft // Rank A
The discipline of intentional cursecraft control, often as achieved via formulaic ritual. At Rank A, curses deployed have the capacity to deny any law short of a Divine Mystery.
Blessings of the Saint // Rank A
A multi-fold blessing founded in Divine Mystery, primarily intended to confer immunity to mental contamination and interference. In the specific circumstance of Grand Assassin, however, certain anatomical modifications accompany -- including vocal masculinization.
Noble Phantasms
Pulsa D'Nura // The Angel of the Inferno // Anti-Unit - Rank EX
Though it takes the name of a Kabbalistic ceremony (the Sixty Pulses of Flame) that invalidates the heavenly forgiveness of sin, the Pulsa D'Nura as actualized by Grand Assassin is in reality an inversion of the concept -- the imposition of a curse that draws upon the vices of the victim, proportionally manifesting them as daggers, and actualizing injuries via the extrusion of the blades from the flesh. This technique may have had its origins in certain Near Eastern rituals of purification and public censure.
Though unblockable, the curse is not guaranteed to be absolutely lethal, and a number of limitations apply to its use:
a) The attack can be initiated only within melee range -- though range limitations can generally be bypassed via use of Domain Imposition.
b) The attack can be inflicted only upon targets of human descent -- specifically, of the 'lineage of Hawwah' (Eve).
c) Grand Assassin must directly communicate the nature of the attack. To facilitate this, her consciousness briefly interfaces with the victim in the moment of execution. Until the process is concluded, time outside of the communication is subjectively halted for both parties.
The seven vices targeted by the curse are Batalah (sloth), Ga'avah (pride), Gargranut (gluttony), Zimah (lust), Ka'as (wrath), Kamtzanut (greed), and Kin'ah (envy). The action of Pulsa D'Nura directly extracts the libidinic drive potentials invested in each vice, and materializes their essence in steel -- effectively forging a set of cursed weapons. As a consequence, the victim is temporarily purged of desires associated with each targeted vice.
Grand Assassin reserves an alternative mode of attack for targets of inhuman stature and origin.
Last edited by fallacies; April 18th, 2016 at 10:12 AM.
Laughter elicited.
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