Create-A-Servant 2

[RoydGolden]

I suddenly realized how downright perfect it was to have Saint Patrick as Oisin's Natural Enemy. Since I depicted Patrick as a guy obsessed with creating a 'utopia' through Christendom and Oisin as a guy who's seen a so-called 'utopia' and was all "Eh, it's not all that", it totally works to have them as rivals. The philosophical fight-banter practically writes itself!

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Added more detail into Oisin's personality section reflecting what I just wrote up above. Really nice when you work out a really good character conflict without even intending to.

[SpoonyViking]

In any case, it's not exactly clear why Diarmuid has it and others don't [...]

I don't know. Why do Saber and Beowulf have Instinct and others don't? Why do Herakles and Sasaki have Mind's Eye (False) and others don't? Why doesn't Robin Hood have Clairvoyance?
I'd suggest not adding things to a sheet "just because"; add them because they fit the original legends (like Cú Chulainn's Battle Continuation), fit the "plot" (such as it is in a Create-a-Servant sheet; an example is Gilles de Rais' Noble Phantasm, which let him become a threat against whom the other Servants could band together), or both (Lancelot's Eternal Arms Mastery).

As for the rest, let's see...

Parameters: I don't know why you gave him END B-. MGI could probably be reduced to D, but I think there's justification for LCK B.

Skills: Magic Resistance seems a bit high; D should be fine.

Noble Phantasms: I think Slabhraí Sos' Rank could be reduced to C.
My only real criticism is about Embarr, which is too powerful and also doesn't really fit the legend. My suggestion would be to rework it so it provides nearly instantaneous healing to Oisin by means similar to a Dead Apostle's curse of restoration, and also give it an ability to temporarily evade an attack by entering another dimension (so, instead of a super attack like Bellerophon or Via Expugnation, it would be a super defense).
Basically, instead of ripping off Adam's Reality Marble, rip off Avalon. :-) Oh, and the Rank should probably be increased to at least A++, if not EX.

[RoydGolden]

Parameters: I don't know why you gave him END B-. MGI could probably be reduced to D, but I think there's justification for LCK B.

Skills: Magic Resistance seems a bit high; D should be fine.

B- is to reflect the whole 'falling off his horse and turning into a frail old man' thing. Other then his Endurance should be fairly high since he fought for seven days and nights straight (even with faerie help). And Mana- B is because of his association with faeries (magical creatures).

Magic Resistance- C seems fair enough since he's from the tail-end of the heroic/divine age.

Noble Phantasms: I think Slabhraí Sos' Rank could be reduced to C.
My only real criticism is about Embarr, which is too powerful and also doesn't really fit the legend. My suggestion would be to rework it so it provides nearly instantaneous healing to Oisin by means similar to a Dead Apostle's curse of restoration, and also give it an ability to temporarily evade an attack by entering another dimension (so, instead of a super attack like Bellerophon or Via Expugnation, it would be a super defense).
Basically, instead of ripping off Adam's Reality Marble, rip off Avalon. :-) Oh, and the Rank should probably be increased to at least A++, if not EX.

Weren't you the one who said the 'usual' rank for an NP, without conceptual shenanigans would be B? Slabhraí Sos' is on its own a straightforwardly powerful barrage of attacks, and also has some rather potent conceptual stuff on top, so I think rank B is fitting enough. Mind you, if all strikes connect, it's pretty much a one-hit kill against Servants by their very nature.

Regarding Embarr... I intended to rip off Avalon actually, only the 'active' rather then 'passive' aspect with the whole 'shielding the user from any harm' thing. With a bit of St. George's horse mixed in, which also made him immune to attack while riding it. Your suggestions are good, but then I wouldn't be able to work in the 'injuries come back immediately when he dismounts the horse; which helped tie it in to Oisin's legend. I'll think about it, though.

Thanks for the feedback!

[RoydGolden]

I'll think of heeding Spoony's suggestions for the sheet tomorrow, probably. Just a little tired right now...

I did add a sentence to his first NP mentioning how he aged 300 years after falling off the horse, though.

[SpoonyViking]

B- is to reflect the whole 'falling off his horse and turning into a frail old man' thing.

I don't think it's necessary to portray that, especially with the way his NP works (more on that below). I mean, it's not as if Saber is walking around with Mordred's sword in her gut, right? :-)

And Mana- B is because of his association with faeries (magical creatures).

B? You have it as C in the sheet.
Regardless, would merely an association with faeries be enough to justify the Rank? Cú Chulainn is an actual demigod, and a spellcaster to boot, and even then he "only" has C. Medusa has B, but she's a semi-divine legendary monster from the Age of the Gods (her profile even notes that's why she has an unusually high Magic Resistance).
I'm not particularly dead set against Rank C, but is there anything in Ossian's legend which points to him being particularly skilled or gifted with handling magical power?

Magic Resistance- C seems fair enough since he's from the tail-end of the heroic/divine age.

So is Iskander, who has a D; and Astolfo, who faced a variety of magical enemies, also has a D (without Luna Break, of course). Even Lancelot (as a Saber) and Gawain, two heroes from the last spurts of the Age of the Gods in Britain and who are also closely associated with fairies, "only" have Rank B even in the Saber Class.
So, again: I'm not particularly dead set against Rank C, but is there anything in Ossian's legend which points to him being particularly adept at resisting magic?

Weren't you the one who said the 'usual' rank for an NP, without conceptual shenanigans would be B?

Yeah, but Slabhraí IS "conceptual shenanigans"; it's basically a tweaked version of Rule Breaker which doesn't have as high a chance of breaking contracts, but actually has a chance of outright killing (or at least harming) the enemy.

Mind you, if all strikes connect, it's pretty much a one-hit kill against Servants by their very nature.

Nah, you're underestimating Servants. Saber could last two days even without a Master, and while she has an unusually large reservoir of mana, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine others could still fight at least for a little while.

With a bit of St. George's horse mixed in, which also made him immune to attack while riding it.

Eh, who knows if it will still work like that once it officially appears?

Your suggestions are good, but then I wouldn't be able to work in the 'injuries come back immediately when he dismounts the horse; [...]

Sure you could. I don't see why you think so?

[RoydGolden]

I don't think it's necessary to portray that, especially with the way his NP works (more on that below). I mean, it's not as if Saber is walking around with Mordred's sword in her gut, right? :-)

Hmm. Fair enough. I might consider getting rid of it.

B? You have it as C in the sheet.
Regardless, would merely an association with faeries be enough to justify the Rank? Cú Chulainn is an actual demigod, and a spellcaster to boot, and even then he "only" has C. Medusa has B, but she's a semi-divine legendary monster from the Age of the Gods (her profile even notes that's why she has an unusually high Magic Resistance).
I'm not particularly dead set against Rank C, but is there anything in Ossian's legend which points to him being particularly skilled or gifted with handling magical power?

Sorry, I got that confused. In any case, I feel the rank is fair enough (and in Cu's case, he'd have it as higher if summoned as Caster).

So is Iskander, who has a D; and Astolfo, who faced a variety of magical enemies, also has a D (without Luna Break, of course). Even Lancelot (as a Saber) and Gawain, two heroes from the last spurts of the Age of the Gods in Britain and who are also closely associated with fairies, "only" have Rank B even in the Saber Class.
So, again: I'm not particularly dead set against Rank C, but is there anything in Ossian's legend which points to him being particularly adept at resisting magic?

It's not just a matter of age but the amount of supernatural happenstance in one's legend. Astolfo may've encountered a bunch of supernatural stuff but Oisin outright lived a fair portion of his life in a totally magical land ruled by faeries. That's got to give him a greater experience regarding magic.

Yeah, but Slabhraí IS "conceptual shenanigans"; it's basically a tweaked version of Rule Breaker which doesn't have as high a chance of breaking contracts, but actually has a chance of outright killing (or at least harming) the enemy.

I guess. I just figured that since it has a rather powerful concept, and was a straightforwardly powerful physical attack, such a rank would be justified. Rule Breaker had a strong concept, but was really weak otherwise and nearly useless for combat, whereas mine is a lot more powerful all around at the expense of a somewhat weaker concept. In any case, statting these kinds of things up is always hard, but I'm fairly comfortable with the choice I made. Might change it to C sometime though. You do have a point.

Nah, you're underestimating Servants. Saber could last two days even without a Master, and while she has an unusually large reservoir of mana, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine others could still fight at least for a little while.

Huh. I always assumed most Heroic Spirits would last only a few hours at most without a Master. How long did Medea last, exactly? Since she obviously had quite a bit of Mana...

I'm really grateful for the in-depth feedback Spoony, and I wish I got stuff this good more often. I'll consider making some changes to his first NP as you suggested sometime tomorrow. For now, I'm a bit too tired to trust myself to do it effectively. Again, thanks!

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As per Spoony's advice, I nixed the - modifier from Endurance, raised Embarr to A++ and lowered his second NP to C. More changes may be incoming tomorrow.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

It's not just a matter of age but the amount of supernatural happenstance in one's legend. Astolfo may've encountered a bunch of supernatural stuff but Oisin outright lived a fair portion of his life in a totally magical land ruled by faeries. That's got to give him a greater experience regarding magic.

Astolfo went to the moon. There is very little in Nasuverse more magical than the moon.

But in all seriousness there's nothing that says "those that live immersed in magic better at resisting magical effects." Lancelot was raised by a freaking fairy in a magic fairy land, his MR as a Zerker is still crap, he just gets other things to reflect his time surrounded by magic, you know, what with Fairy Protection. I'm not in particular for either rank specially, but once again, this isn't what MR means. Lancelot is in fact very particularly pointed out to gain MR from a magic ring, rather than any innate ability.

Huh. I always assumed most Heroic Spirits would last only a few hours at most without a Master. How long did Medea last, exactly? Since she obviously had quite a bit of Mana...

Few hours. I think he's mistaking Saber for an Archer with IA, which gives them days at high ranks. Iskandar's guys with E- in the skill have "thirty turns."

[RoydGolden]

Astolfo went to the moon. There is very little in Nasuverse more magical than the moon.

But in all seriousness there's nothing that says "those that live immersed in magic better at resisting magical effects." Lancelot was raised by a freaking fairy in a magic fairy land, his MR as a Zerker is still crap, he just gets other things to reflect his time surrounded by magic, you know, what with Fairy Protection. I'm not in particular for either rank specially, but once again, this isn't what MR means. Lancelot is in fact very particularly pointed out to gain MR from a magic ring, rather than any innate ability.

Whatever, I still think the rank is fair enough. And Berserker!Lancelot's rank was so low because, again, he was a Berserker, a Class which normally wouldn't have that Skill at all.

And there's nothing that says those more familiar with magic have better resistance but A. It makes sense and B. Far as I know, there's nothing that says what determines a rank in Magic Resistance at all (other then a select few things like having dragon blood or divine protection).

Few hours. I think he's mistaking Saber for an Archer with IA, which gives them days at high ranks. Iskandar's guys with E- in the skill have "thirty turns."

That's more what I'd thought initially.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Whatever, I still think the rank is fair enough. And Berserker!Lancelot's rank was so low because, again, he was a Berserker, a Class which normally wouldn't have that Skill at all.

He has it as a personal skill. It's because he has a ring. And then drops because he's a zerker.

And there's nothing that says those more familiar with magic have better resistance but A. It makes sense and B. Far as I know, there's nothing that says what determines a rank in Magic Resistance at all (other then a select few things like having dragon blood or divine protection).

It's pretty obvious that what determines a rank in MR is having something that gives MR, and then it's modified based on class, with Sabers giving a big bonus, Lancers Archers and Riders being neutral or slightly on the positive side, and Zerkers definitely in the negative. You want to give him high MR? You wank something about how he's part god or has a dragon inside or has a magic item or I AM A PURE AND VIRGINAL MAIDEN or whatever. Saying "well he lived surrounded by it" isn't wank, that's what a shitton of Servants who don't have any MR still experienced. Lancelot was raised by a fairy in her fairy lake land and doesn't have any innate gift for MR, he just has a purdy ring.

Seems very strange to have to tell you to wank something.

[RoydGolden]

He has it as a personal skill. It's because he has a ring. And then drops because he's a zerker.



It's pretty obvious that what determines a rank in MR is having something that gives MR, and then it's modified based on class, with Sabers giving a big bonus, Lancers Archers and Riders being neutral or slightly on the positive side, and Zerkers definitely in the negative. You want to give him high MR? You wank something about how he's part god or has a dragon inside or has a magic item or I AM A PURE AND VIRGINAL MAIDEN or whatever. Saying "well he lived surrounded by it" isn't wank, that's what a shitton of Servants who don't have any MR still experienced. Lancelot was raised by a fairy in her fairy lake land and doesn't have any innate gift for MR, he just has a purdy ring.

Seems very strange to have to tell you to wank something.

I think it's kind of silly to say that only being part god or dragon or whatever qualifies you for high-ranking Magic Resistance, instead of... y'know, actually encountering and fighting magic. You do have a point though, I just don't really think this is a worthwhile issue to debate. Also I figure the case with Lancelot was more like as Berserker his 'natural' Magic Resistance was sealed (since it isn't an ability of that Class, no matter how much he would otherwise qualify for it) so he just relies on the ring's MG, which is rank D.

Whereas as Saber he gets his full B rank which comprises the ring as well as his own natural ability. Mind you, B is still a pretty high rank. Anything higher then that is as you said, reserved for people who were half-dragon or god or whatever.

Also, Oisin technically is part divine since he's the son of Fionn, who himself is descended from the war god Nuada. I just didn't bother mentioning it in the sheet itself since it would only qualify as a very weak level of divinity (heck, even Fionn himself only has it at D for some reason).

[Seika]

- It is said that the three classes Saber, Lancer and Archer have strong Magic Resistance.
To put it simply, magic is pretty much useless against them.
It's because they are fighters who fought through the age of myths, when magics were used widely.
Magics that magi use now would probably dissipate just by touching them.
(Prologue, Day 3)

[RoydGolden]

- It is said that the three classes Saber, Lancer and Archer have strong Magic Resistance.
To put it simply, magic is pretty much useless against them.
It's because they are fighters who fought through the age of myths, when magics were used widely.
Magics that magi use now would probably dissipate just by touching them.
(Prologue, Day 3)

So it confirms that they have naturally high Magic Resistance because they lived in eras where magic was widely used. Basically what I thought.

[You]

Gilgamesh naturally E rank MR and he lived in Babylon

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People who lived in eras with a lot of magic generally get high MR because there's more of a chance for them to encounter magic and fight it. Like even if Alex is AOG his MR is still D because he basically didn't encounter any in his legend.

[RoydGolden]

Gilgamesh naturally E rank MR and he lived in Babylon

That's because his treasury compensates for it. Also, Gil is so hax he doesn't need high Magic Resistance. And him having it at such a low rank is because of how lackluster Kirei is as a Master, actually. Normally he'd have it at rank C, which is... not high, but not super low either.

[Mcjon01]

I think it's kind of silly to say that only being part god or dragon or whatever qualifies you for high-ranking Magic Resistance, instead of... y'know, actually encountering and fighting magic.

So it confirms that they have naturally high Magic Resistance because they lived in eras where magic was widely used. Basically what I thought.

Artoria boasts the greatest rank of resistance to magic among the Servants. She is capable of completely neutralizing high thaumaturgy involving magic circles and instant contracts. Even modern magi of the highest level cannot wound her directly with magic. Artoria is even able to resist a command of action powered by one use of a Command Spell. Such is the extraordinary rank of her Magic Resistance, sufficient to shake the very foundation of the Servant system. If the opponent is someone who attacks with magic, Artoria will charge without fear and decide the battle in one fell sweep.
Also, per her "Pendragon" name, Artoria possesses the element of the Red Dragon, charged with the task of protecting the kingdom. She carries the very magical power of the dragon. This humongous magical power is also the source of Artoria's Magic Resistance. Because she possesses characteristics of a dragon, Artoria would have difficulty against beings such as Siegfried, who are associated with tales of "dragon slaying." If she is targeted by "dragon slaying magic," it is possible that Magic Resistance will not function to its full extent.

[RoydGolden]

People who lived in eras with a lot of magic generally get high MR because there's more of a chance for them to encounter magic and fight it. Like even if Alex is AOG his MR is still D because he didn't encounter any in his legend.

Okay, but Oisin genuinely did live around and was surrounded by magic, as well as being blessed by a faerie. I think the rank I gave him is reasonable. I agree that someone who lived in the AoG but never encountered magic wouldn't have a very high rank, but that's not the case with him. And his rank isn't even that high, anyway.

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If you care to know, my personal logic behind giving out ranks is that D~C is for people who were surrounded by magic but weren't so much known for fighting it, B is for heroes with strong religious faith or legends of specifically fighting against magic and A is, as Mcjon said, for those who were directly gifted by gods, descended from dragons or what have you.

[Mcjon01]

Anyway, I misread the argument because the text walls got big and I skipped to the end.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Also I figure the case with Lancelot was more like as Berserker his 'natural' Magic Resistance was sealed (since it isn't an ability of that Class, no matter how much he would otherwise qualify for it) so he just relies on the ring's MG, which is rank D.

Why would he need a ring that gives him D magic resistance if he naturally had magic resistance? It'd be like, Berserker Herk wearing armor.

On another point, Nero and her "nonexistent MR in life" has a C MR as a Saber. While we have to wait to see if Saber Lance says anything about his MR, it stands to reason that having B MR is because oh hey dude had something in life that gave him a bit of MR, lets boost the shit out of it as a Saber.

[RoydGolden]

Why would he need a ring that gives him D magic resistance if he naturally had magic resistance? It'd be like, Berserker Herk wearing armor.

On another point, Nero and her "nonexistent MR in life" has a C MR as a Saber. While we have to wait to see if Saber Lance says anything about his MR, it stands to reason that having B MR is because oh hey dude had something in life that gave him a bit of MR, lets boost the shit out of it as a Saber.

He'd naturally qualify for it as a Heroic Spirit, but that doesn't mean he gets it under every Class. The way I see it, his 'natural' Magic Resistance is sealed as Berserker so he can only rely on the ring's (much weaker) degree of protection while as Saber he has his natural resistance to sorcery combined with the ring to give a much higher rank.

[You]

Okay, but Oisin genuinely did live around and was surrounded by magic, as well as being blessed by a faerie. I think the rank I gave him is reasonable.

C rank is fine.

I mean nitpicking the difference between C and D MR is generally peanuts for a class that innately has MR.

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If you care to know, my personal logic behind giving out ranks is that D~C is for people who were surrounded by magic but weren't so much known for fighting it, B is for heroes with strong religious faith or legends of specifically fighting against magic and A is, as Mcjon said, for those who were directly gifted by gods, descended from dragons or what have you.

that's not good logic.