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Thread: Create-A-Servant 2

  1. #621
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoydGolden View Post
    Sense in terms of the overall Nasuverse or just being self-consistent?
    well putting aside the whole change the legend in the throne thing.

    The thing that I have an issue is would be the creation of components.
    That just seems redundant since Servants by nature are mere components of a Heroic Spirit. There is no Servant that consists of a Heroic Spirit's entire legend. Therefore the act of breaking up a Heroic Spirit's legend to change the Servant is superfluous.

    Therefore, I think the NP would be better if you just drop the first part and make it so he's able to flip through and then materialize Servant's aspects.
    So like Gilles as a Caster, you touch him, you can put him to his Saber form.
    Cu as Lancer, you can touch him and put him into his prototype form, touch him again, put him to his Caster form. etc.
    Good for a 7vs7.
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    That's exaggerating my point.

  2. #622
    Heavens Feel Adlet's Avatar
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    Not sure if there's a thread for asking about things related to creating servant sheets too since I didn't see one, but I got a question. I'm thinking of remaking the Hitler sheet I made with my friends and well, I kind of plan on using some myths/rumours for it such as about the Nazi Gold and the Thule Society being rumoured to be a satanist cult.

    Is that a good enough source for when making Servant sheets? Because I have some ideas for it if I can use those ''myths'' as a source. And if yes, is black magic considered Witchcraft too or does it have it's own skill name in-universe?

  3. #623
    Will we ever know of freedom? RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adlet View Post
    Not sure if there's a thread for asking about things related to creating servant sheets too since I didn't see one, but I got a question. I'm thinking of remaking the Hitler sheet I made with my friends and well, I kind of plan on using some myths/rumours for it such as about the Nazi Gold and the Thule Society being rumoured to be a satanist cult.

    Is that a good enough source for when making Servant sheets? Because I have some ideas for it if I can use those ''myths'' as a source. And if yes, is black magic considered Witchcraft too or does it have it's own skill name in-universe?
    I'd say as long as the myths/rumors are fairly well-known and not, like, super-modern or anything (i.e from Marvel comics or the like) I'd say it should be fine. Stuff like the Holy Lance, Thule society Occultism and all that falls under the former category, I'd say, so go for it!

    Western black magic can be included under Witchcraft (just look at Mephistopheles) but you should make your own description rather then use the 'Dakini heavenly methods' one.

  4. #624
    Heavens Feel Adlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoydGolden View Post
    I'd say as long as the myths/rumors are fairly well-known and not, like, super-modern or anything (i.e from Marvel comics or the like) I'd say it should be fine. Stuff like the Holy Lance, Thule society Occultism and all that falls under the former category, I'd say, so go for it!

    Western black magic can be included under Witchcraft (just look at Mephistopheles) but you should make your own description rather then use the 'Dakini heavenly methods' one.
    Alright, good. Black Magic was a thing I wanted to include for him under the Caster class (but I'm primarily going to focus on him as Lancer) and yeah I wasn't really planning to relate it to the Dakini heavenly methods one. Anyways, guess I'll start working on him then. Hopefully he doesn't turn out too powerful aside from Longinus because I have a lot of ideas I wanna push into the sheet. Thanks for the reply man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adlet View Post
    Alright, good. Black Magic was a thing I wanted to include for him under the Caster class (but I'm primarily going to focus on him as Lancer) and yeah I wasn't really planning to relate it to the Dakini heavenly methods one. Anyways, guess I'll start working on him then. Hopefully he doesn't turn out too powerful aside from Longinus because I have a lot of ideas I wanna push into the sheet. Thanks for the reply man.
    You're welcome. Looking forward to the sheet!

  6. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    well putting aside the whole change the legend in the throne thing.

    The thing that I have an issue is would be the creation of components.
    That just seems redundant since Servants by nature are mere components of a Heroic Spirit. There is no Servant that consists of a Heroic Spirit's entire legend. Therefore the act of breaking up a Heroic Spirit's legend to change the Servant is superfluous.

    Therefore, I think the NP would be better if you just drop the first part and make it so he's able to flip through and then materialize Servant's aspects.
    So like Gilles as a Caster, you touch him, you can put him to his Saber form.
    Cu as Lancer, you can touch him and put him into his prototype form, touch him again, put him to his Caster form. etc.
    Good for a 7vs7.
    There's a difference between fighting Hercules with God Hand or all his spoils from the Labors and fighting a version of Hercules who hasn't done anything noteworthy enough to have any of the skills and NPs that his "complete" version has.

    To use your examples, he could change Cu to a version consisting of the single incident where he killed the hound, or change Gilles to a broke playwright. Neither of those would be anywhere near as threatening as their "full" versions.

    Your interpretation of cycling through different aspects isn't completely off base, but the NP is supposed to be more evocative of a writer dividing a complete story into chapters. It reduces the target to only one piece of a greater whole.
    Last edited by Funderfullness; September 14th, 2016 at 02:12 PM.
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  7. #627
    Alrighty Caster is finally done. I'm open to anything you folks might have to add. Personally I feel there are a few more Personal Skills that seemed appropriate, but I really didn't want to sift through the list. A lower ranked Wisdom of the Haunted Ground jumped out at me, same as a lower ranked Elemental, but that's about it.

  8. #628
    Will we ever know of freedom? RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maester1216 View Post
    Alrighty Caster is finally done. I'm open to anything you folks might have to add. Personally I feel there are a few more Personal Skills that seemed appropriate, but I really didn't want to sift through the list. A lower ranked Wisdom of the Haunted Ground jumped out at me, same as a lower ranked Elemental, but that's about it.
    I really don't think he needs both Magecraft and Witchcraft. Just one or the other should be enough. Also, since with that one taken out he'd actually only have one Class Skill, I'd say you could definitely include one or two more. Though, given that his NP grants him a whole bunch of magic-related Skills, that may not be necessary. (And Wisdom Of The Haunted Ground strikes me as Scathach exclusive)

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by RoydGolden View Post
    I really don't think he needs both Magecraft and Witchcraft. Just one or the other should be enough. Also, since with that one taken out he'd actually only have one Class Skill, I'd say you could definitely include one or two more. Though, given that his NP grants him a whole bunch of magic-related Skills, that may not be necessary. (And Wisdom Of The Haunted Ground strikes me as Scathach exclusive)
    My logic behind it is that Witchcraft was more derived from enlisting demons while Magecraft was more traditional magic(think of him as someone multi-classing as a Sorcerer/Warlock if you're familiar with D&D).

    I think you might be right about Wisdom of the Haunted Ground, it's just that the way it was worded led me to believe otherwise. Then again Skill descriptions can be rather vague....

    The other problem is that there really aren't many Skills that seem appropriate or functional for him; I mean, why take Familiars as a Skill when he could simply use Magecraft or Item Construction to make them?
    Last edited by Maester1216; September 14th, 2016 at 02:52 PM.

  10. #630
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    Any opinions on the sheet I did? I´m kinda curious to see what people think.
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  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallereon View Post
    Any opinions on the sheet I did? I´m kinda curious to see what people think.
    Looks interesting, a more combat capable Shakespeare; I like it.

  12. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adlet View Post
    Not sure if there's a thread for asking about things related to creating servant sheets
    This is basically the place to ask, but I also wrote a brief guide to use as starting blocks.
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  13. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maester1216 View Post
    My logic behind it is that Witchcraft was more derived from enlisting demons while Magecraft was more traditional magic(think of him as someone multi-classing as a Sorcerer/Warlock if you're familiar with D&D).

    I think you might be right about Wisdom of the Haunted Ground, it's just that the way it was worded led me to believe otherwise. Then again Skill descriptions can be rather vague....

    The other problem is that there really aren't many Skills that seem appropriate or functional for him; I mean, why take Familiars as a Skill when he could simply use Magecraft or Item Construction to make them?
    Hmm. I understand your reasoning, but having two overtly magic-related Skills even both ending in 'craft' just seems redundant. I'd recommend scrapping Witchcraft and giving him Familiars (Demons) or something of that nature, and maybe Librarian Of Stored Knowledge to represent his capacity for knowledge.

  14. #634
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    ​Was watching the last season of Castle yesterday. There was one ep about Aladdin's lamp and then I was like: Huuurrrrr I could make him into a Servant. And then I was like, what class would he even be? And then I re-read his story and thought about it a lot. After thinking about it a lot I realized there were too much stuff I couldn't explain in one of those cliff notes Zero sheets. So I decided to change my style and do one of those CM3 giant Servant things on him instead. I might actually be more fond of this style.

    Aladdin



    Class: Assassin
    Master:
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Sex: Male
    Height: 165 cm
    Weight: 65 kg
    Attribute: Earth

    STR: D
    CON: D
    AGI: C
    MGI: D
    LCK: EX
    Noble Phantasm: B

    Legend:

    A story later added to the One Thousand and One Nights when it was compiled by Anotine Galland. Because there is no Arabic source for the story, it is believed Galland invented the story himself. According to Galland though, he heard the tale from an Arab Maronite storyteller, Youhenna Diab. Either way, because of the mystery surrounding the origins of the story itself, Heroic Spirit Aladdin conforms to the Western-Only rule that is part of the 726th Holy Grail as it is entirely possible that his origins are Christian even if the story regales the tale of a notably Islamic culture. On the other hand, there are rumors that the mysterious storyteller was a descendant of Aladdin or was even one of the Djinns mentioned in the story.

    There is not much to discuss about the legend of Aladdin and the Wonderful Lamp considering how much it has pervaded mainstream culture. While the story is allegedly set in China, the culture is undeniably Muslim. Therefore, it is believed that “China” merely serves as a “once upon a time,” setting the tale in a distant realm the reader nor the storyteller has much information about. The other argument is that “China” may not refer to what we consider to be “China,” but Turkestan. Therefore, Aladdin’s cultural sphere is rather muddled. He boasts the highest amount of fame in the Islamic world but the staging ground of his legend is near China. However, he is pretty much a house-hold name worldwide because of Disney so this does not matter that much.

    Tactics:

    The Aladdin who manifests as an Assassin, is not the lucky child nor the wealthy prince, he is the man who has lost everything: his status, his palace, his lamp. It is during this period of time that he concocted a plan to assassinate Maghrabi, the magus who stole Aladdin’s possessions. At a later date, Aladdin also concocted another plan to assassinate Maghrabi’s wicked younger brother who interrupted his life.

    Portraying these two aspects Aladdin is not summoned with his famous lamp. Instead, he is only able to use his ring and the dagger that killed "Fatima." Even with these two weapons, Aladdin’s greatest weapon is undoubtedly his luck. In fact, one could say Aladdin’s entire legend is based around his luck whether it be good luck or bad luck. Because of this Aladdin is also greatly aided and hindered by his Reversal of Fortune Skill.

    The Master who summons this form of Aladdin must play a delicate balancing act between all these abilities.

    Class Skills

    Presence Concealment: B

    Hides one’s presence as a Servant. Suitable for covert actions. When he has completely hidden his presence, discovering him is exceedingly difficult. The rank drops considerably when preparing to attack.

    Most of this skill comes from Aladdin’s fifteen-year history as a scapegrace in the streets of his hometown. This skill could be seen in action when he infiltrated the magus, Maghrabi’s, workshop in an attempt to save his wife. Needless to say, infiltrating a magus’ workshop at that time, especially one who specialized in divination, has earned him such a rank.

    Personal Skills

    Reversal of Fortune: A

    A skill that signifies a change in one’s luck which is ultimately due to one’s own flaws. The opposite of the skill that Aladdin would usually be endowed with, 「Rags to Riches.」

    In Aladdin’s case, in two days, his EX rank LCK drops to A rank and every two days after that it Rank-Downs until it is E rank. Two days after that, all his saving rolls are halved and in another two days, all his Luck Checks must fail. At the same time his Golden Rule skill ranks down every two days until it no longer exists while his Discernment of the Poor skill ranks up in proportion until it is EX. The final blow is that his status as a Heroic Spirit also deteriorates every two days. You could call it an unhappy coincidence that his spiraling takes fourteen days to complete, the time limit of a standard Holy Grail War. Either way, at the end of the fourteen days Aladdin is nothing more than a vengeful ghost or wraith.

    A Reversal of Fortune is a common trope in fairy tales and serves as a moral message about being aware of one’s flaws and how it may affect one. Aladdin’s flaw is nothing more than his sheer greed. His acts of extravagance and his lust for more is what notified Maghrabi that Aladdin was alive and had the lamp. One could say this skill perfectly represents this aspect of Aladdin’s legend, it’s linchpin so to speak. Funnily enough, this a literal reversal of fortune too.

    The reason why his abilities specifically decrease every two days has to do with how, just after being spared from execution, Aladdin hanged around the capital for two days, not knowing what to do to save his wife and treasures. Failure to save them would mean his death. These two days are the blackest days in his life. One could say that his core, as an Assassin, is a repetition of these two days over and over again.

    Golden Rule: A

    A life in which money is fated to revolve around. Because of 「Reversal of Fortune, 」 it ranks down every two days.

    With the power of the lamp, Aladdin not only able to amass a giant fortune, but he also created a palace where just one window contained more jewels than the Sultan, Aladdin’s father-in-law, could gather. While he does not have the lamp, the ring will grant any material wishes just as well.

    Discernment of the Poor: E

    Insight to see through the opponent’s character and alignment. It is somewhat difficult to use words to deceive him. Because of 「Reversal of Fortune, 」 it ranks up every two days.

    Aladdin’s father was a moderately successful tailor; however, Aladdin refused to take up the trade. In a few years the father died of heartbreak, leaving Aladdin and his mother in destitute. Because his destitution was a choice rather than some stroke of fate, Aladdin had no time to consider his place in the world and the injustices of the poor and sickly. Therefore, while he has this skill, it may as well be non-existent.

    However, when he gained wealth and then lost everything, he reached a despair so deep he was about to take his own life. It is during these days of wandering that he survived on the alms and benevolence of those around him. That is the moment he truly gained insight on the weak and less fortunate.

    Protection of Elementals: C

    A blessing from the elemental within the ring. It is an ability that can make one lucky in dangerous situations. In Aladdin’s case, it can only be invoked when his presence is concealed.

    The story of Aladdin is about how a boy makes the most of luck. However, it should be noted that Aladdin is the luckiest when he is in a desperate situation, when he is trapped in the cave with no escape, when he is about to commit suicide, he accidentally rubs his ring and finds a way out of both situations. It is during both these episodes that he happens to be away from the view of others, a time where no one else knows where he is and what he is doing.

    Perhaps this may be a cruel trick from the elemental inside the ring.

    Noble Phantasms

    O’ Slave of the Ring
    The Thrall Wrapped Around My Finger

    Rank: B+
    Type: Anti-Unit
    Range: 0
    Maximum Targets: 1 person

    The Ifrit that lives inside the magical ring Maghrabi gave Aladdin. It was not a gift, but assurance Aladdin would obtain the lamp for him. With Aladdin unwilling, Maghrabi closed off the cave and let Aladdin die. Little did Aladdin know the means of escape was literally in his hands.

    There is slight confusion whether the djinn inside is a Marid or an Ifrit, as both terms have been used to describe the Djinn and the Arabian Nights sometimes does not make a distinction between a Marid and a Djinn. In the words of the Slave of the Ring himself, “Adsum! Verily, to completely cross the threshold and become a Marid like my counterpart in the lamp would truly be something! His Marble Phantasm is quite the sight.”

    The reason why he cannot finish his transformation into a Marid lies with the fact that he is bound to a ring rather than lamp. Even during the crusades of the thirteenth century, magi have found Ifrita in sealed magical lamps they used as catalysts for their spells. However, the root of the word Ifrit supposedly means “to rub dust,” even if they are considered infernal elementals. As a result, at their core, they are spirits of the earth rather than spirits of fire or air. Coupled with being sealed in a ring, an earthly, fertility symbol, rather than a lamp, a fiery, illuminating symbol, the Slave of the Ring is closer to his origin than those pesky Ifrita ever could be. At the same time, he can never make the transition to a Marid, even if he is an elemental from the Age of Gods. In terms of regression his quality is D, quantity is also D, and his composition is Pre-Sixth Century Pseudo-Divine Fertility Phenomenon. With this, he is even capable of teleporting his master to distant lands or making a feast appear out of thin air.

    The summoning of this ally, the activation of the Noble Phantasm, requires a successful luck check. Needless to say, as the war goes one it becomes harder and harder for Aladdin to summon the Djinn. At the same time the Slave of Ring is his only trump card.

    Personality-wise, the Slave of the Ring is a slightly snooty butler. Even if he is always ready to do as Aladdin commands he will make slightly backhanded comments if he considers the command to be “base,” or “pedestrian.” Even so, he is very loyal to his master, that is, whoever holds the ring at that moment. The only time he would consider breaking his master’s trust is when impressing a cute Ifrita. Probably shouldn’t take him to visit Jerusalem.

    As for his feelings towards the Slave of the Lamp, the Slave of the Ring sees him as some sort of unreachable upperclassman. It’s a somewhat unhealthy reverence, the type that doesn’t allow the Slave of the Ring to question whether it is possible for him to do perform feats the Slave of the Lamp can. There are some cute points though, like how Slave of the Ring booms “Adsum!” whenever he is summoned; that’s actually something he got from the Slave of the Lamp.


    misc notes
    Aladdin's wish for the grail is to obtain the grail. In this form Aladdin is on his quest to retrieve the lamp and whenever he hears "wishgranter," he just assumes it is the lamp even if it's not. But at the same time, there really isn't much difference between two supposedly omnipotent wish-granting vessels so does it really matter?

    Aladdin is a rather weak Heroic Spirit considering his feats are more about being lucky than combat or skill. He has been shown to be quite clever and he did win an actual war without his lamp so he's not completely useless.

    When summoned Aladdin is a restless and mischievous soul who is slightly weighed down with his need to regain his lamp (the grail). The obsession grows and grows each day until it utterly consumes him, after all this Aladdin is the embodiment of a reversal of fortune. Becoming more and more ruthless and desperate, the only ending for him is one of ruin. Which is ironic because of how he overcame such a predicament in his legend. Well, maybe if he has an understanding Master who balances him out.

    Design-wise, having something be able to grant all your wishes was way too OP. So I tied that with his theme. As the war drags on for longer and longer, he gets weaker and weaker, but also stronger in a different sense. Basically, he's trapped by a specific moment in his legend his only escape from that hell is to win or die. He totally remembers everything about his legend, but maybe that just makes him all the more desperate, since he knows he's regained the
    wishgranter
    lamp
    before.

    Yeah, you probably shouldn't summon Aladdin as an Assassin. Well, he's a fun guy at the beginning though.

    Btw
    Ifrita =
    Spoiler:
    Last edited by You; September 16th, 2016 at 01:08 AM.
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    On You's tombstone it will read
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    That's exaggerating my point.

  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by RoydGolden View Post
    Hmm. I understand your reasoning, but having two overtly magic-related Skills even both ending in 'craft' just seems redundant. I'd recommend scrapping Witchcraft and giving him Familiars (Demons) or something of that nature, and maybe Librarian Of Stored Knowledge to represent his capacity for knowledge.
    That actually makes a lot of sense. Really anything I could have Caster do with Witchcraft could be done just as well with Magecraft; his whole style of combat is kind of likee your usual Warlock or Necromancer; throw trash mobs at your enemy until they get overrun or you can attack from a better position.

  16. #636
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Bird of Hermes's Avatar
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    Welp, You has just blown my Aladdin out of the water.Thats good stuff.
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  17. #637
    The Moe Lion Draconic's Avatar
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    Considering making a rather, er… unconventional (technically impossible) version of Lancer Diarmuid. I'll only say this: His alignment is going to be Lawful Evil.
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  18. #638
    Made those edits to Caster, anything else immediately jump out at people?

  19. #639
    Will we ever know of freedom? RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconic View Post
    Considering making a rather, er… unconventional (technically impossible) version of Lancer Diarmuid. I'll only say this: His alignment is going to be Lawful Evil.
    Hmm. Lancelot did wield a lance at one point (heck, it's even in his name) though I'm not sure if it ever had any special title (though you could always use 'Secace', a name for one of his swords and just say it's a spear instead) so he'd certainly be eligible for that Class, though I'm not sure where the 'Lawful Evil' part is coming from. In any case, if you have an interesting idea, I wouldn't let canon hold you back. Your Vortigern sheet was really good and I'm looking forward to seeing more of equally high quality out of you.

    And remember. It's all just fanfic anyway.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maester1216 View Post
    Made those edits to Caster, anything else immediately jump out at people?
    The Skills I suggested definitely fit him a lot better, yeah. Other then that he seems pretty cool and with no real faults I can think of.

    Nothing jumps out at me, hits me over the head, steals all my money and runs off laughing maniacally into the sunset. I think that analogy got away from me...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Now that I've started reading about Jason in Percy Jackson's Greek Heroes, I might try doing a sheet of him next, if inspiration strikes me.

    It'd be a mix of the Grand Order version of him (such as the super-duper charisma) with my own take more directly based on his legend.

  20. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoydGolden View Post
    Hmm. Lancelot did wield a lance at one point
    what does lancelot have to do with diarmuid besides the whole ntr comparison

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