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Thread: Fate/Grand Order Mats

  1. #7621
    Trace: Overcringe King of Padoru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    Tamamo bypasses MR doesn't she
    Even with that, Exorcism of Grudging Spirits can nope her spells

  2. #7622
    虚無の境:意識 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    Tamamo bypasses MR doesn't she
    Tamamo's magic is Dakini stuffs which is Indian origin and moreso on Buddhism side, so it doesn't matter in the first place. The use of paper charms is just "kyan I'm miko fox!". Kiara for example doesn't even need the charms, just chant a mantra or something (which Tamamo also did when using the poison blast, citing the mantra for Dakini-ten).

  3. #7623
    Knight of 'Sumanai' Iceblade44's Avatar
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    The thing is though, how much of Japans magic doesn't have influence from India and China? Benkei himself is a Buddhist monk. In any case though as Pandoru pointed it out it doesn't matter that much given Benkei's other skill anyway.
    "Only in my company, will you not be a monster"


    anywhere than here

  4. #7624
    wwwww Spartacus's Avatar
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    Is Benkei (Fake) NP come from Benkei's legend or his own legend?

  5. #7625
    虚無の境:意識 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceblade44 View Post
    The thing is though, how much of Japans magic doesn't have influence from India and China? Benkei himself is a Buddhist monk. In any case though as Pandoru pointed it out it doesn't matter that much given Benkei's other skill anyway.
    I don't think using Buddhism magic to deal with, you know, the chief Buddha, is a good idea. And not all curses are evil in the first place, heck her magic is called Jujutsu, not majutsu. Extra made a distinction of the 2 for a reason, she's even called a jujutsu-shi rather than majutsu-shi. And not to mention the sealing has a chance to fail.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And Japanese magic being influenced from India or China doesn't mean magic from China and India are Japanese related. The foundation is still in India. Japanese magic I assume is onmyoudou stuffs for the most part tbh.

  6. #7626
    Knight of 'Sumanai' Iceblade44's Avatar
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    The Pilgramage? Well from my limited knowledge it's both yes and nope on both. That NP has nothing really to do with Benkei's feats, really it just ties into his role as a Buddhist monk. Now while that super important for Benkei's identity, nowhere in his stories do just find him being able to summon 500 Arhats. Now also to say Fake Benkei, Kaison is also a legit Buddhist monk, so it's as much of a thing for him to have it as would the real Benkei. Well you can always say that the journey of the Arhats(or what an Arhat represents in general) has some nice symbolism and themes that relates to Kaisons own story and wishes so it can be said to possibly fit. But other then that I don't see any other basis. Thou people who know about the story behind the Pilgrimage more feel free to correct me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    I don't think using Buddhism magic to deal with, you know, the chief Buddha, is a good idea. And not all curses are evil in the first place, heck her magic is called Jujutsu, not majutsu. Extra made a distinction of the 2 for a reason, she's even called a jujutsu-shi rather than majutsu-shi. And not to mention the sealing has a chance to fail.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And Japanese magic being influenced from India or China doesn't mean magic from China and India are Japanese related. The foundation is still in India. Japanese magic I assume is onmyoudou stuffs for the most part tbh.
    Still though, given Benkei's experience, both real and fake. I cant just see the mentions of Japanese magic as not relating back to the Buddhist side of it like Tamamo then it just being pure Japanese. I'm fine that Tamamo probably would still get past it thou, I'm just throwing out some skepticism
    "Only in my company, will you not be a monster"


    anywhere than here

  7. #7627
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    I don't think using Buddhism magic to deal with, you know, the chief Buddha, is a good idea.
    The chief Buddha stuck in the class container, no? I'd assume that would severely limit her power.
    Also, I didn't know Amaterasu was the chief Buddha, or even a Buddha, really. More syncretism?

  8. #7628
    wwwww Spartacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceblade44 View Post
    The Pilgramage? Well from my limited knowledge it's both yes and nope on both. That NP has nothing really to do with Benkei's feats, really it just ties into his role as a Buddhist monk. Now while that super important for Benkei's identity, nowhere in his stories do just find him being able to summon 500 Arhats. Now also to say Fake Benkei, Kaison is also a legit Buddhist monk, so it's as much of a thing for him to have it as would the real Benkei. Well you can always say that the journey of the Arhats(or what an Arhat represents in general) has some nice symbolism and themes that relates to Kaisons own story and wishes so it can be said to possibly fit. But other then that I don't see any other basis. Thou people who know about the story behind the Pilgrimage more feel free to correct me.
    I see, thanks for the insight!
    One of the things that bother me the most is when an NP and Skill didn't tell where the anecdotes come from and assume everybody should know already.

  9. #7629
    虚無の境:意識 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceblade44 View Post
    Still though, given Benkei's experience, both real and fake. I cant just see the mentions of Japanese magic as not relating back to the Buddhist side of it like Tamamo then it just being pure Japanese. I'm fine that Tamamo probably would still get past it thou, I'm just throwing out some skepticism
    I'm not sure you're aware of this but that kuji incantation is actually originated from Shugendou and Shingon Buddhism, the very same Buddhism school that Dakini aka Vairocana aka Amaterasu is the chief of. Heck the first of the 9 characters being cited in the seal is actually calling to Amaterasu - one of the 9 Buddhas or Bodhisattvas or Devas who grants miracle to the seals lol. Alternatively, there are other interpretations, with one had the 4th seal calling out to Acala - Vairocana's Aramitama, and the Aramitama of Vairocana/Amaterasu is...well...Tamamo.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    The chief Buddha stuck in the class container, no? I'd assume that would severely limit her power.
    Also, I didn't know Amaterasu was the chief Buddha, or even a Buddha, really. More syncretism?
    Where have you been all this time? it was mentioned not just in Extra mats but GO mats as well as in CCC and FGO itself and I've been repeating that ever since for awhile, ofc with my annoyance to the syncretism as well. Within what is available for Eng players, Tamamo Shark mentioned this as well if you build the pagoda in the first summer event, and later on Nezha mentioned it too. Also, what I replied to Iceblade above. It's not wise to use the technique originated from the very same school that your enemy is the chief of, since that person out of all enemies should knew how to deal with it and be able to avoid it.
    Last edited by Lily Emilio; November 22nd, 2018 at 10:36 PM.

  10. #7630
    虚無の境:意識 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Is Benkei (Fake) NP come from Benkei's legend or his own legend?
    It's from Kaison's legend. He is said to be immortal (live for 400 years). Traditionally Arhats are those who are on the final period to Bodhisattvas/Buddha rebirth and have extremely long life. They are also considered to be guardians of Buddhism in a sense (the Shaolin temple in China for example has trained warrior monks adopting the names and titles of Arhats). It fits Kaison's role as a battle monk who lived for 400 years, pretty much you can consider him an Arhat. His NP is just him calling out his peers.

  11. #7631
    wwwww Spartacus's Avatar
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    That's clear things up.

    Thanks Mizu.

  12. #7632
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One asterism42's Avatar
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    Super awesome NP rendered into a joke by GO gameplay

    not even an instant kill effect smh
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly
    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    I think Alex IV can eat Goku.

  13. #7633
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Animation update better have them 500 fellas going to Nirvana

    In 2030, obviously

  14. #7634
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    Super awesome NP rendered into a joke by GO gameplay

    not even an instant kill effect smh
    well in this case beneki was always a joke

    they should have just rebuilt him rather than use what was there
    Quote Originally Posted by FSF 5, Chapter 14: Gold and Lions I
    Dumas flashed a fearless grin at Flat and Jack as he rattled off odd turns of phrase.
    "And most importantly, it's me who'll be doing the cooking."
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.


  15. #7635
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Arha's Avatar
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    Speaking of Kaison, was he an actual dude or just a Fate OC do not steal? I've never heard of him and Google turns up nothing non Fate related.

  16. #7636
    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    JP Google?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  17. #7637
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arha View Post
    Speaking of Kaison, was he an actual dude or just a Fate OC do not steal? I've never heard of him and Google turns up nothing non Fate related.
    You sure you googling right?

    Also, there's a play based around him apparently.
    Last edited by Zork Knight; November 23rd, 2018 at 12:11 AM.

  18. #7638
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Arha's Avatar
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    Nope. I figured it would be easier to ask here than dig through google results that I can barely understand, if at all.

    Ah, I see.

  19. #7639
    Quote Originally Posted by castor212 View Post
    Batman CMT BMCMIIW

    Class: Assassin
    True Name: Hassan-i Sabbah
    Gender: Male
    Source: Middle East, “Old Man of the Mountain”
    Region: Middle East
    Alignment: Lawful Evil
    Height: 215 cm
    Weight: 62 kg

    STR: B
    CON: C
    AGI: A
    MGI: C
    LCK: E
    NP: C

    Setting creation: Nasu Kinoko
    Character design: Takeuchi Takashi
    CV: Inada Tetsu

    Main works appearance: Fate/stay night
    -----
    Class Skills

    Presence Concealment: A+
    Suppresses one's presence as a Servant. Suitable for covert action.
    By perfectly suppressing his presence, detection is next to impossible.
    However, as he moves in preparations to attack, the rank of this skill drops considerably.
    -----
    Personal Skill

    Throwing (Dirk): B
    The ability to fire dirks as bullets. These daggers are not for close combat use, and instead utilized for speculation.

    Self-Modification: C
    The aptitude to attach and fuse completely different flesh to one’s own body. The higher the ranking of this Skill, the further away one is from being a proper hero.
    This Hassan is able to obtain his “Zabaniya” as a result of Self-Modification.

    Protection from Winds: A
    A charm[1] that wards off wind, handed down to the people of the mountain.
    An indispensable article for when travelling through the desert.

    [1] while the kanji is 呪い, which usually means curse, looking at CM3, the intended reading is まじない, which specifically means spell/charm/incantation/magic formula
    -----
    Zabaniya
    Delusional Heartbeat

    Rank: C
    Type: Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm
    Range: 3~9
    Maximum target: 1 unit

    Zabaniya.
    The cursed arm. The arm of the demonic spirit[1] Shaytan, it excels in killing humans through curse.
    By making use of ether clumps, it fabricates from the reflection of the mirrored assassination target a double existence which interacts with the original. By crushing the fabrication, which resonated with the original, it curses to death the assassination target without even laying a single finger on the original.
    It is an assassination technique which invalidates powerful physical defenses and crushes the heart. No matter how powerful an armor it is, it holds no meaning against the Delusional Heartbeat.
    Opposing the Delusional Heartbeat requires not high level of CON but instead MGI and the ability to prevent the double existence from being created.

    [1]精霊. Same kanji used for elementals.
    -----
    Personage
    First pronoun: watashi
    Second pronoun: anata / kisama / ** (no honorifics)
    Third pronoun: anatagata / kisamara / ** (no honorifics)

    - Character
    The assassin of white skull clad in black robe.
    His face under the skull mask have been shaved off; from the beginning, there’s nothing there that one could call a face.
    He succeeded the name of “Hassan-i Sabbah”, and everything of his personal until that point was thrown away.
    For him, assassination is at the core of it a duty and a job; there is no grief or pleasure in it, and it is by no mean a heresy.
    Due to that, if one’s interest coincides with that of Hassan, who operates while separating his free will from the duty of assassination, then it is possible to establish a cooperative relationship with him.
    For instances, within a labyrinth created by a magus, Hassan who is in possession of high physical ability, proficiency in handling traps, and slipping in shadows while concealing himself with no sound behind the prey would most likely be an exceedingly heartening ally.
    To add, his cylindrical, atypical appearance of his arm is due to obtaining the “cursed arm” of Middle Eastern magic which specializes in cursing human, acquired as the result of Self-Modification.
    The arm of Shaytan which is a thing of no human is spiritually assimilated with his own arm, a physical act of incarnation. It is not easy to imagine how much pain and tenacity exist in such an act.

    - Motives and attitude towards Master
    Although speaking in human terms he cannot be said to be a virtuous person, he is devoted to the command of his lord.
    He would not betray those he had approved of as a lord, no matter how low said lord falls; his personality is that of a professional who would stay silent even in the face of a considerably unreasonable order.
    He had lost both his face and his true name, and regretted reducing himself to an individual known as “Hassan-i Sabbah”; his wish upon the Holy Grail is to regain his face and to be remembered in history as his own person.
    Due to that, there is a high probability of him being summoned by a magus who holds a longing towards the eternity of “perpetual youth and longevity”.

    - Speech example
    “************!”
    When jumping towards the “Barrier of the Wind King” during the battle against Saber, there was a plan to insert a line where he extols of their God, but it had to be censored because of adult circumstances. In the PS2 version, only the voice is added.

    “This is nothing to be admired at, but in a fashion this too is a “Holy Grail War”; surely you will not call it a cowardice, yes?”

    “Scary, scary. Now then, I suppose I shall do my best to not drowns in my own scheme. Painful as this is, this, too, is fate. Now then, I shall have you present that head of yours.”

    “AH! The young master has been done in!? ...Mm! I suppose the young master, who put his everything to it, is the one at fault; but here, I shall lend him my assistance!”[1]

    [1] The young master is referring to Shinji. They dont meet in FSN but in derivative works Hassan calls Shinji that. Also three out of four of this lines are from Tiger Colosseum (I think?), what gives lol.
    -----
    Historical depiction

    The leader of an religious assassination group, possessing its origin from the Middle Eastern.
    With the pseudonym of “Old Man of the Mountain”, he is one of the legendary chiefs of the religious assassination organization, the Nizari faction, which became the root of the word “assassin” through granting the drugs known as hashish to the extremities of mankind and training assassins.
    There are 19 individuals considered to be the successive generations of Old Man of the Mountain, each of them inheriting the name of the founder “Hassan-i Sabbah”.
    All of the Hassan-i Sabbah are masters who had cultivated a special technique, and they are also given the alias of “Hassan of XX”[1] in accordance to each of their secret technique.
    In addition, the founder Hassan-i Sabbah is a figure of 11th~12th century, leading his sect personally while positioning himself in the Fortress of Alamut of Midwest Iran.
    In FGO, the origin of the religious organization of Assassins is the same, but their actions afterwards differ from historical fact.

    [1]two kanji letters
    -----
    Ingame depiction

    Until the fifth chapter, he does not actively stand out in the main scenario.
    During his interlude, under the Master, who is the very definition of virtuous person, he joyfully hunted down the Roman thieves who had tried to kidnap children and train them as errands. He disparaged them, saying that “rearing anyone as assassins without even measuring whether or not they have the talent for it is beyond foolishness”, and exhibited the pride of a professional assassin.
    Incidentally, by means of his continuous, personal effort of self-policing, the crime rate in Rome rapidly decreased afterwards.
    Upon hearing that, Dr. Roman commented “Is he….. actually a good guy?”
    -----
    Depiction in previous works

    Originally, in the Holy Grail War of Fuyuki, the summoned Assassin class should have been any one of the successive generations of Hassan-i Sabbah.
    In Fate/stay night, due to Caster distorting the system of the Holy Grail War, an unrelated different individual was summoned as Assassin instead, but in one route the Hassan of Cursed Arm who should’ve been the one to be summoned made his appearance as Assassin.
    In the short novel of Fate/Labyrinth, he was summoned by means of a subspecies Holy Grail established by someone in the depths of Caubac Alcatraz’s seventh labyrinth. However, he offered the proposal of joint struggle to the other Servants who must take control of the state of affair, and contributed in establishing a temporary party consisting of 1 magus and 4 Servants.
    -----
    Connection with other characters

    Hassan of Hundred Faces
    “The most skilled yet misfortune Hassan, that one is. It does seem that there is another tremendously talented Hassan candidate on the same period as her, but… now then, I wonder what had happened then?”

    Hassan of Serenity
    “The purest yet most dangerous Hassan, that one is. A flower that none are able to touch, and thus pure even until the end; I had heard of her as such, but…. That a gentle young woman would know not of the warmth of others even until her death is truly cruel indeed... ”

    'Old Man of the Mountain'
    “Giving a comment would be beyond what I deserve, truly!”

    Gilgamesh
    “None should ever serve such a man.”
    -----
    Comment from Illustrator
    I thought that I shouldn’t be changing him too differently from the hanafuda version, so anyway I have memories of being worried with his facial expression change that uses his mask. His last ascension makes important of the Justice Hassan component within him. I’m glad that despite being only 2 star Servant in the game he is a character you can definitely use. I don’t even know how many he had saved my behind. He’s the main force in mine Chaldea. (Task Ohna)




    Throwing (Dirk): B
    The ability to fire dirks as bullets. These daggers are not for close combat use, and instead utilized for speculation.
    I love how he uses them.

    Protection from Winds: A
    A charm[1] that wards off wind, handed down to the people of the mountain.
    An indispensable article for when travelling through the desert.
    A very, very, convenient skill to have...

    When jumping towards the “Barrier of the Wind King” during the battle against Saber, there was a plan to insert a line where he extols of their God, but it had to be censored because of adult circumstances. In the PS2 version, only the voice is added.
    What adult circumstances?
    Thanks Castor.
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrapnel View Post
    Bob the Builder's evil twin.
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
    HF felt like Nasu holding up a megaphone and screaming, "LOOK AT HOW SAD THIS IS! ISN'T IT SAD? YOU SHOULD FEEL SAD!"


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
    > Einzbern

    > Making smart decisions


    Pick one


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Palingenesis just sounds like we're creating Sarah Palin.


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers View Post
    >tfw you betray your ideals to get some


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    In short, Japan's syncretism BS striked again.

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by castor212 View Post
    Curse
    Blessing
    of the Boobs



  20. #7640
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    Where have you been all this time?
    Well, I was asking more regarding real-life than in the Nasuverse proper, but I haven't read any of the mats, I haven't played CCC (or even vanilla Extra), and I didn't build the pagoda.
    So basically, if I understand you correctly, real-life Amaterasu isn't worshipped as a Buddha, but thanks to whatever syncretic theories and beliefs Nasu based himself on, Tamamo is both Amaterasu and a Buddha. Is that it?

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