Fate/Grand Order Mats

[Magikewl]

Then ask questions instead of posting your weird half-baked "theories"

[Laserman]

Then ask questions instead of posting your weird half-baked "theories"

.

[Sandstorm77]

I know that you are a veteran in this field.

Respectfully speaking, instead of posting a gif making me even more confused, can you please enlighten me on how the whole thing exactly works?

I'm totally grasping at straws here and only know bits and pieces. Fandisks only slightly helps. Mediocre understanding of Nihon - go can only get me that far, and I know that there is something out there even more greater than what I know.

I mean just the way you interpret the convertation above you is already weird. You was explaining thr difference between how tamamo's ofudas differ from medea's magic. Then you suddenly go on about japanese magic>magecraft and how we can see that from the great mages that are from japan? Which came out of nowhere and made no sense.

[mewarmo990]

Respectfully speaking, instead of posting a gif making me even more confused, can you please enlighten me on how the whole thing exactly works?

ok.

Japanese Magic is odd, but compared to Magecraft, it's much more effective.

Just look at the Magi that TM version of Japan has produced.

They may be specialists, but they're exceedingly good at it.

Trope page was right. Nasu writes the rules, then introduces a character that becomes broken by breaking the rules.

What you are calling "Japanese Magic" and "Magecraft" aren't separate things. Magecraft is just one of several competing translations for 魔術. It's all magic, magecraft, sorcery, whatever. Ignore the super special miracle 魔法 Magic for now.

In modern times, mages and what most people consider magic are mostly based on the European understanding of magic, because the Association is the currently dominant magical culture (along with the Church and their 'miracles'). That includes Rin, Shirou, Aoko, Touko, etc. These characters featured in stories are extraordinary, but they don't represent everyone that comes out of Japan. There are extraordinary magi in other parts of the world too, especially in Europe where magical culture is concentrated.

Also, just because someone comes from Japan doesn't mean they have to use a brand of magic that is indigenous or peculiar to that region. For a lineage with an established foundation, they probably do, but what I mean is that someone like Shirou being an "exceedingly good specialist" has nothing to do with "Japanese magic."

Of course, there are systems of magic all over the world that don't fall under the umbrella of the Association, but most of the time there isn't very much info about them other than passing mentions. Some are labeled 呪術. It's not 100% clear what the difference is from 魔術 (in real life there's no real difference between the terms). It's probably just a subset because the TM definition of 魔術 is very general. Tamamo is an example of someone who can use 呪術. She's also an ancient priestess and goddess avatar so I wouldn't go comparing her to other people.

Don't rely on TV Tropes. It feels like the only people who say "Nasu breaks his own rules all the time" are the people who don't actually read the stories.

[asterism42]

Also, people who can do extraordinary things usually make for more interesting characters to write about.

[mewarmo990]

Yes, and it makes sense that many of the featured characters in Type-Moon stories are Japanese, because TM is Japanese and almost all of their readers are Japanese.

[asterism42]

Honestly, are there even that many rule breakers from Japan? Touko and Rin are extraordinary, but at the end of the day they both use pretty standard magecraft. Same with Shirou; a Reality Marble's pretty out there, but it's nothing, like, illegal. Archer's a Servant so he's probably stronger than when he was (will be?) alive. Aoko's a Magician, so she doesn't count.

[mewarmo990]

Honestly, are there even that many rule breakers from Japan?

nope

you can't really compare Heroic Spirits to modern living people

and yeah the definition of 魔法 is "impossible for everyone else"

[castor212]

uh so

basically 呪術 is a subset/type of 魔術 right

honestly the description from tamamae profile just makes me confused

[Lily Emilio]

uh so

basically 呪術 is a subset/type of 魔術 right

honestly the description from tamamae profile just makes me confused

Yes. majutsu is the general term for all the w/e magical-jutsu. There are different kinds of jujutsu. Tamamo's jujutsu contain many curses, charms and other weird shit, but she refuses to use many curses related to the Dakini methods cuz trauma. Meanwhile, Mephisto's jujutsu are classic Western curses, which is from a different branch of jujutsu unrelated to the ones Tamamo uses.

[castor212]

tl;dr shit is confusing

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well not really but I wish they give us some more cnocrete stuffs on 術-ism

[hayate]

Don't rely on TV Tropes. It feels like the only people who say "Nasu breaks his own rules all the time" are the people who don't actually read the stories.

Duly noted.

Yep, still have lots and lots to learn.

This will take a long while. Even longer than the thesis that I'm revising now.

Thanks for the treasure trove of info.

[Mazyrian]

An interesting bit that I remember was discussed on occasions: on Herc's entry it says that it could be summoned as Saber, Lancer, Rider or Archer, but no mention of Assassin
(BTW, Lu Bu has the qualifications for 5 classes: Lancer, Rider, Assassin, Berserker and Archer)

[Nuclear]

Yes. majutsu is the general term for all the w/e magical-jutsu. There are different kinds of jujutsu. Tamamo's jujutsu contain many curses, charms and other weird shit, but she refuses to use many curses related to the Dakini methods cuz trauma. Meanwhile, Mephisto's jujutsu are classic Western curses, which is from a different branch of jujutsu unrelated to the ones Tamamo uses.

Does Mephisto use his own body parts or w/e to cast jujustu like Tamamo does?

On another matter, wouldn't it be okay to translate jujutsu into, I don't know, "cursecraft"?

[castor212]

An interesting bit that I remember was discussed on occasions: on Herc's entry it says that it could be summoned as Saber, Lancer, Rider or Archer, but no mention of Assassin
(BTW, Lu Bu has the qualifications for 5 classes: Lancer, Rider, Assassin, Berserker and Archer)

is this basically a retcon then?

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btw mazyrian, i have 2 question

was the "curses" mentioned in Tick Tack Bomb uses the same kanji as 呪術

also, if Mephisto's CLown's Laughter is specifically targetting human species, does it work on Servant or not

[Lily Emilio]

was the "curses" mentioned in Tick Tack Bomb uses the same kanji as 呪術

Yes, so?

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Does Mephisto use his own body parts or w/e to cast jujustu like Tamamo does?

On another matter, wouldn't it be okay to translate jujutsu into, I don't know, "cursecraft"?

I don't know.

I prefer not to do it because it's confusing enough with other curses. But you can call it witchcraft/cursecraft...etc

[castor212]

Yes, so?

then that means tick tack bomb usage is inline with Mephisto usage of 呪術 right

[You]

Does Mephisto use his own body parts or w/e to cast jujustu like Tamamo does?

On another matter, wouldn't it be okay to translate jujutsu into, I don't know, "cursecraft"?

tamamo is dakini traditions.
mephisto is classical western.

they are leagues apart.

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Honestly, are there even that many rule breakers from Japan? Touko and Rin are extraordinary, but at the end of the day they both use pretty standard magecraft. Same with Shirou; a Reality Marble's pretty out there, but it's nothing, like, illegal. Archer's a Servant so he's probably stronger than when he was (will be?) alive. Aoko's a Magician, so she doesn't count.

there was one in 2004
it's owner's name was Kuzuki Medea.

[asterism42]

She ain't Japanese. She's from Georgia, I believe.

[You]

then that means tick tack bomb usage is inline with Mephisto usage of 呪術 right

ish