Fate/Grand Order Mats

[asterism42]

Question: Is Goddess of War listed as one of Penny's Noble Phantasms?

[castor212]

Nope

Doesnt mean it isnt

[Dragolord09]

Nope, though in theory it should possess the same abilities as the one possessed by her sister, even if they are different sashes. If it's the full effects of the sash you're talking about, I'm afraid you'll have to wait until the next volume of Strange Fake to come out and (hopefully) reveal its abilities.

EDIT: Sniped.

[Arha]

That really doesn't matter. Jeanne is known as a famous hero and Gilles is as the guy that went crazy murderous after she died, that's it. Having Gilles, the character portrayed as her devout follower in everything, be a superior commander to THE flag bearing, leading, Ruler-class Servant, Jeanne d'Arc just makes no narrative sense.

And yet Lancelot is the better swordsman.

[pinetree]

And yet Lancelot is the better swordsman.

That's completely different, Lancelot's legend is that he is the greatest knight and that's how he's been portrayed from the start, having her be inferior technique-wise makes sense, specially because when we're talking about battle prowess, the focus was always on Excalibur, while Arondight is almost an after-thought for Lance.

[Kelp24]

plus there's Galahad

[pinetree]

Your argument would make sense if they called Lancelot a better king, leader or his sword more important/powerful.

Edit: muh merge

[castor212]

what if

Revelation OP

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my headcanon is Gilles having MilTac mean he is undeniably in possession of a sound, instinctive tactical mind
but instructions from the Big Guy is above that

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actually now that i take a second look nothing really says jeanne is more op in tactics than gilles
is probably the case where jeanne is better leader because revelation and charisma while gilles is better tactician so the one who lead and inspire better is jeanne but the one dictating the tactics are gilles

or something

should probably check jeanne mats to check whether or not there's something along that line hmm

[Deathhappens]

That really doesn't matter. Jeanne is known as a famous hero and Gilles is as the guy that went crazy murderous after she died, that's it. Having Gilles, the character portrayed as her devout follower in everything, be a superior commander to THE flag bearing, leading, Ruler-class Servant, Jeanne d'Arc just makes no narrative sense.

A) That is, literally, exactly what happened

B) They don't have to expand on it if it would somehow diminish Jeanne's contribution not being the absolute top dog that gave all the orders (cough waifu favoritism cough), but they can at least not reverse it completely to where Gilles is the one who learned from Jeanne. If you're going to the trouble of making a Servant for him, and specifically a new form disconnected from the serial killer he was to become later, why not at least grant him the achievments he actually historically posessed?

[castor212]

where does it say Gilles learn tactics from Jeanne?
mat says nothing about that, am i missing something? whered u get that

also tactician isnt necessarily commander

[Deathhappens]

I mean, you could just look at what I quoted earlier

It's either funny or sad that Gilles de Rais, the one who actually commanded France's army and had the actual military training (along with the entirely ignored here Jean de Metz, albeit his role was much smaller in the grander scope of history) is presented here as "acquiring military merit as Jeanne D' Arc's assistant" and "fighting under the flag of the saint". Like yeah, we know who the waifu that prints money is, but since you went to the trouble of making a version of him representing his knightly merit couldn't you at least render unto Caesar?

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Specifically, it's under the headings of his Military Tactics skill and Saint War Order

Personal skills:
Military Tactics C:
Tactical intuition in a battlefield in which a large number of people is mobilized, not for one versus one battles.
As Jeanne Darc’s assistant, he obtained several military merits.
In the case of being under an attack similar to a siege battle, a bonus is particularly added.

Noble Phantasm:
Saint War Order
Rally upon the sacred banner and roar



Rank: B
Type: Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm (Self)
Range: 1
Maximum number of targets: 1 person

Saint War Order.
A Noble Phantasm that reproduces the moments when he was fighting under the flag of the saint Jeanne, in other words, the moment at which he was shining the most.
Together with a status up effect similar to Mad Enhancement, performs attacks automatically until the targeted enemy has been completely silenced. A bonus is added to the damage from attacks.

[castor212]

Neither of those said Gilles learn tactics from Jeanne

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neither assisting someone nor being under someone mean he is receiving tutelage in tactics from her though?

i mean like my above post said, it could very well simply mean Gilles is assisting Jeanne with his tactical expertise

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also, 補佐 means adviser, or an assistant in a capacity of an adviser
and fighting under the flag could easily be translated as fighting while gathering at the flag (旗に集る), and either case does not imply Gilles learning tactics from Jeanne
I think you're a bit overreaching here if youre drawing the conclusion that Gilles learn tactics from Jeanne from that 2 things

[SpoonyViking]

"Military merit" sounds more like he gained fame (or maybe that he won victories) by fighting under Jeanne than that he learned something from her.

[castor212]

"Military merit" sounds more like he gained fame (or maybe that he won victories) by fighting under Jeanne than that he learned something from her.

yes

directly from dictionary, in english 戦功 would be merit in war / distinguished war service.

[Deathhappens]

Maybe so, but the fact that it's listed under his Military Tactics skill is rather damning.

[fumei]

I thought fishrin's whole thing was being picky with the exact meaning of words

hmm

[Deathhappens]

I have a lot of things, thank you very much.

[SpoonyViking]

Maybe so, but the fact that it's listed under his Military Tactics skill is rather damning.

"Tactical intuition in a battlefield [...]
As Jeanne Darc’s assistant, he obtained several military achievements."

None of that implies he learned anything from Jeanne.

[fumei]

I have a lot of things, thank you very much.

I remain unconvinced for the moment

[castor212]

Maybe so, but the fact that it's listed under his Military Tactics skill is rather damning.

Miltac listed that he perform good military deeds
How is that damning

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Still dont get how you jump from that to Gilles is Jeanne student