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Thread: Night of the TATARI: Wild Mass Guessing and What if's?

  1. #3941
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclear Consensus View Post
    So our next enemy is someone with the Fifth, or a power close to it? Shudder.
    that's what Goetia did not the next person

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    A person Ereus's Avatar
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    I wonder what the deal with the Sefar are, I mean did they figure out how to cheat mystery due to the sheer power of the units they made?
    I person who probably exists.

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    That will be necessary Arashi_Leonhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ereus View Post
    I wonder what the deal with the Sefar are, I mean did they figure out how to cheat mystery due to the sheer power of the units they made?
    I find the irony of this statement amusing.
    Stuff I do for your attention and adulation
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  4. #3944
    僕はね、ヒマワリになりたかったんだ mewarmo990's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ereus View Post
    I wonder what the deal with the Sefar are, I mean did they figure out how to cheat mystery due to the sheer power of the units they made?
    I'm afraid I don't really understand the question.

    like, you seem to have an odd idea of what "Sefar" and "mystery" mean.

    In the first place, mystery is basically irrelevant when you aren't talking about modern magic.

  5. #3945
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Yeah, before the modern era magic dealt with divine mysteries. Totally different.

  6. #3946
    僕はね、ヒマワリになりたかったんだ mewarmo990's Avatar
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    it was a NAZO

  7. #3947
    A person Ereus's Avatar
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    What I meant was that magecraft gets weaker over time due to science being understood and such? Yet for the Sefar to design such a strong entity and be so technological, I was saying they either had no mystery or had 'cheated' it so to speak.
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    Never quacked for this Kyte's Avatar
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    It's an alien. It doesn't count.

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    僕はね、ヒマワリになりたかったんだ mewarmo990's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ereus View Post
    What I meant was that magecraft gets weaker over time due to science being understood and such? Yet for the Sefar to design such a strong entity and be so technological, I was saying they either had no mystery or had 'cheated' it so to speak.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by mewarmo990 View Post
    In the first place, mystery is basically irrelevant when you aren't talking about modern magic.

  10. #3950
    Say "Grail" one more time. Leftovers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukihime
    `We humans have flourished this much by isolating ourselves from nature. While we receive blessings from nature, we steal from it, and even if nature is destroyed, we will not be destroyed. We became the most superior race on this planet probably because of this one sin only we humans carry.

    `We can no longer be a part of nature. In its place, we have gained ways to even destroy nature, this whole planet. However, from the nature's perspective, this is evil. The world itself is a form of life, so it has the will to protect itself from us. But it does not have senses. So---it creates a presence, separated from nature like us, to remonstrate us.

    [...]

    `Nature, the earth, possesses a will. That is why it still exists and tries to stay beautiful. The problem isn't that we can't feel it. It's that the standard of what nature thinks is beautiful and the standard of what humans believe is beautiful are the same.

    `An existence which the world created to sense for it. These are what we usually call spirits. They are a transcendental species existing on another plane different from the remaining spirits of animals in the present world. The True Ancestors are one type of these spirits. They are born with the purpose to punish humans, so they only see humans as evil. Much as we think vampires who prey upon humans are evil, they view humans who prey upon nature as evil.

    [...]

    `---Humans are only enemies to the True Ancestors. As part of nature, no, as those whose power is linked to nature itself, their power has no limits. In the long history of the Church, there are only a few records of fighting against the True Ancestors. They get their powers from the world itself. Therefore in order to kill them, a conceptual weapon with the power to kill the world is needed.

    `Of course, such a weapon does not exist. So that means their 'death' cannot be caused by external factors
    Quote Originally Posted by Tale
    Shinso, True Ancestor.
    That's what the new representatives of the planet were called. Because of one flaw, the population of fairies who received flesh was decreasing. Sucking blood. Maybe the True Ancestors, who lusted after blood from the subjects they ruled and punished, were wrong from the beginning.
    It was an unbalanced system and there wasn't enough to be divided evenly, so in turn, their numbers decreased. Even so, the True Ancestors battled on.
    Even after the evil king of the moon was gone, they fought, ruthlessly battling the demons who tainted the planet. However...
    Human blood is the most poisonous. Especially for fairies. Once they take in human blood... they become demons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukihime Dictionary
    They were created by nature, which had no tangible method of self-defense toward humans. Therefore, they are extensions of nature.
    "If mankind is to be ruled, let man be the model." Under this premise, they were created with a mind and body structure similar to humans.

    [...]

    Though the True Ancestors possess godlike abilities, the fact that human ideas had no influence on their creation means they are not a type of Divine Spirit. They are an existence desired by the world, but not by humans. Because of this, they have gradually gone into hiding and dwindled in numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Moon
    `I do not understand. What I do know, though, is that your process is not very effective. After you were born as the ultimate being, the ones born after you were all too imperfect. You were the only one that went right, and all the other True Ancestors were just failures, weren't they? So you decided to modify this. The True Ancestors are just a phenomenon that occurs by need, but you taught them how to create it with their own hands. The reason is simple. You desperately needed a True Ancestor of the same degree of purity as yourself."

    [...]

    `Generally, the True Ancestors are accepted as a spirit of nature. That's why the beast of Alaya won't oppose them. The True Ancestors are more than just an enemy of the human race. They are the keepers of nature as well. Our subconsciousness both accepts and denies the monster called the True Ancestors, so Alaya's beast does not recognize them as a target of elimination."
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanwa
    Any True Ancestor aside from the very first one is artificial in some way or another. Arcueid is an Ancestor who was created even though there was really no need for her.
    大抵は、そろそろ新しい真祖という個体ができるぞ、という時に他の真祖が「今回はこういうことなんで、こういう役割に合った者にしよう」と言って粘土で形を造るというか、輪郭を決めるのですが。
    Whenever another True Ancestor can be created, the other Ancestors get together and say "Well, things are like this right now, so we need someone who can take this role" and then mold the new one.
    Arcueid was originated from nothingness -- a product to realized the pointless goal of "the strongest True Ancestor"... there are a few other secrets, but...


    Couple of thoughts.

    As far as Gaia's intentions went, it seems the True Ancestors' role as part of its counter force was meant to be regulating humanity and its (negative) impact on the planet. Since they're extensions of nature and can change it with just their thought, that janitor work could have been performed in a way that could be considered a natural disaster (kinda like CGs), but since they carried the flaw of the vampiric impulse and had to use most of their power to suppress it, maybe they never got around to be too useful in that way, since otherwise almost invincible beings would just be notable overall in lording over humanity and kicking it around*. (Tale does say they fought humans up to and after CM was defeated, but not everyone takes it that seriously)

    Then, given that new True Ancestors are created specifically in order to perform a certain role or function, like Arcueid being created to destroy the fallen ones and DAs, and assuming they didn't just sit around doing nothing much, what could other specific roles that need a super-fairy to carry them out be? Or is there some kind of prerequisite for the creation of TAs to be possible, and that is part of why their numbers kept dwindling even though they generally only had to deal with the blood-sucking impulse becoming too strong?

    *though there's interesting contrast with the other alien-based rulers of humanity that did depend on them to exist, plus the distinction of Tsukihime and Fate worlds is that in the latter human order is pulsing strong and in the former it's being ■■■■ and DAA - and consequently TA - exist...

    also >>>>"humanity's sin"<<<<

  11. #3951
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Maybe "protect location X" ?
    Or "destroy these aliens"

  12. #3952
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Was Arcueid created specifically to destroy demon lords, or was she created when the other TAs got bored and decided to see what popped out when they twisted all the dials on their Easy-Make Oven to eleven and then just ended up getting shoved into that role after?

  13. #3953
    Say "Grail" one more time. Leftovers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Maybe "protect location X" ?
    Or "destroy these aliens"
    Imagining TA society is difficult. Their roles can be CF-like adjustments to threats or just something related to a function of the planet like maintaining a realm, but then they all gave that up and went back to the castle once Arcueid reconstructed it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Was Arcueid created specifically to destroy demon lords, or was she created when the other TAs got bored and decided to see what popped out when they twisted all the dials on their Easy-Make Oven to eleven and then just ended up getting shoved into that role after?
    She was born in the 12th century when there were many fallen True Ancestors.@
    ` The True Ancestors could not ignore their fallen kin nor the Dead Apostles increasing in number.@
    ` That's why they created something solely for killing.@
    ` Without a need for anything else, the most pure True Ancestor created for punishment.@
    ` That is the True Ancestor called Arcueid.@
    She is a True Ancestor, born in the 12th Century for the sole purpose of hunting those True Ancestors that had fallen and become demon lords.
    Specifically for that role seems to have more explicit statements going for it.

  14. #3954
    It seems that plan backfired a little

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