Things have changed in the past month regarding Divine Spirits in Nasuland, so here's a thread to keep track ofOriginally Posted by Kirby
what arai has said about itinfo and discuss it maybe?
Extella12,000 BC, the dawn of the 2nd Age of the Gods.一万四千前、地球の文明 (旧石器時代、第二神代の黎明期)
<deadchevalier> Altera says that her sword is the embodiment of the act of fighting, that was wielded by one of the original gods, the god of war that would later become the base concept of the gods Ares and Mars. She treasures it because it's a spoil from the greatest enemy she faced. By gaining that sword her essence also changed from "white giant" to "sword wielder", whic
<deadchevalier> and then it turns out the original gods were aliens ha.<deadfish> hm interesting
<deadfish> the sefar entry in the mat book
<deadfish> says something like 後の『軍神の概念』を倒した際
<deadfish> also that the basis of Mars losing to Athena is from thisLooking at that pastebin
So is this saying that the gods used to not be divine spirits?Oh right in the true route Tamamo does go on to drop a few lines to make it sound like Amaterasu definitely was present 14,000 years ago, but she also has a line saying that the gods (神々) were from before they became divine spirits (神霊).<deadchevalier> there were aliens
<deadchevalier> that then became the basis of divine spirits
<deadchevalier> or something
<deadfish> i'm not sure what's going on
<deadfish> but it's clear that there had been deified nature as gods back then
<deadfish> so it wasn't just ancient aliens
<deadfish> but they also emphasize the bit about concepts taken form
<deadfish> phrasing like 疑神化した自然
<deadfish> it sounds like gilgamesh's father
<deadfish> directly made a contract with sefar
<deadfish> father as in not his mortal one
<deadfish> basically in exchange for letting those gods live
<deadfish> kyte it sounds like the sumerian gods chickened out
<deadfish> and the greek ones actually fought sefar
<deadfish> ＋https://twitter.com/fgocomikemat/sta...43323364229120
<deadfish> particularly the gods of olympus
<AriadniensisM> arai, doesnt that just confirm that
<AriadniensisM> the originals and the gods are not the same
<deadmaggot> it does
<deadmaggot> the bit about the war god also makes it clear that it was just the original of ares and mars
<deadmaggot> Altera: 自然（せかい）の具現の神々の一柱、“軍神”と呼ばれる存在が手にしていた力です。 のちにアレス、マルスと呼ばれる戦闘神の剣。 Zabi: アレスは古代ギリシャあたりの神様だったような？ マルスは確か、同じ神様が 古代ローマで奉じられた際の名前で―
<deadmaggot> Altera: そうですね。 彼らの原型（オリジナル）の概念としての神、 それこそが一万四千年前の“軍神”でした。 だから、あの剣は… 最大の強敵であった“軍神”を打倒して、手にした唯一の戦利品（だいじなもの）。
Babylonia<deadfish> True Ether
<deadfish> the fifth theoretical element
<deadfish> this is the same thing that t he black barrel is made of
<deadfish> the power that creates planets, the power that creates heavenly bodies
<Satehi> post AD ether, pre AD true ether
<Satehi> ?
<deadfish> true ether is the source by which gods are established
<deadfish> yes
<deadfish> the ones who ruled that era were the gods. nature or concepts might be another way of putting it
<deadfish> there are gods in the sky, gods in the earth, gods in the sea, gods in so so and so
<deadfish> the rules of nature are the authorites wielded by the gods
<deadfish> laws of nature i mean
<deadfish> many modern magi believe that many legends are interpretations (emphasis on the interpretations of the age of gods
<deadfish> the gods did exist
<deadfish> but they disappeared with the coming of the era of man
<deadfish> and it had three stages
<deadfish> decline
<deadfish> separation
<deadfish> and
<deadfish> something else
<deadfish> actually hold on
<deadfish> the stage of decline
<deadfish> started with some big disaster 14,000 years ago
<deadfish> or it is theorized that it did
<deadfish> separation is gilgamesh's time
<deadfish> the third stage
<deadfish> is something called moment or origin
<deadfish> i'm not really sure the context
<deadfish> but da vinci said it was observed in 700 bc
<deadfish> also it looks like the main gods of the pantheons have already disappeared off the face of the earth by gilgamesh's time
<deadfish> the maryoku back in the age of gods was inherently different in any case
<deadfish> and that's what they called the true theoretical element<deadfish> basically divine spirits even in gilgamesh's time were reduced to just observing human historySpoiler:The age of the gods, and divine spirits. Given that you've finally arrived in the era regarded as the end of the age of the gods, it's time to cover these two topics in greater detail.
You already know what divine spirits are, but the age of the gods... well, to put it simply, it's the era when the gods walked the earth.
In the world of magi, the magical energy in the atmosphere is called mana. It seems the further back in time you go, the more of it there was.
Basically, it is the magical energy of the earth itself. For humans, it was something akin to an endless supply of gasoline.
The individual magical energy possessed by magi and heroic spirits, on the other hand, is called od.
It is magical energy produced by special nerve tissues called magic circuits. However, the scale of the earth and humans is different.
The amount of mana is unimaginably vast, while the amount of od is trifling.
But, ever since the start of the common era, this mana has been decreasing steadily.
Accordingly, twenty-first century magi can only engage in their mystic studies with magical energy from living bodies... which is to say, od.
There's a reason for the decrease in mana, but we'll skip over that this time.
At any rate, the age of the gods was overflowing with mana. And it wasn't just the amount that was different, it was the quality as well.
The mana of the common era is known as ether, the fifth imaginary element. It is artificial magical energy.
Before the common era, when human civilization was yet undeveloped, magical energy was known by another name.
True ether. The power that births planets. That which composes heavenly bodies. The fifth theoretical element.
This true ether is the very fountainhead that brings gods into existence.
The ones who controlled this era were not humans, but gods. Or maybe you could call them nature, or concepts?
There were gods in the air, the earth, and the sea. Love was a god, hatred was a god, even war and death were gods.
The laws of nature were authorities wielded by the gods.
The world belonged to the gods. You could even say it was the gods.
There is some debate as to whether those gods and the gods that exist in legends, faith, and religions around the world today are one and the same.
At the very least, modern magi consider most legends to be "interpretations" of the age of the gods.
The gods certainly existed. However...
They disappeared with the coming of the age of man.
This disappearance is divided into three stages: the Decay, the Separation, and the Turning Point.
The Turning Point is observed to be sometime around the 7th century BCE.
The Decay began 14,000 years ago, after a large-scale disaster led to the decline of the prehistoric mythological civilizations.
And, 2600 BCE, where you are now, is the end of that age of the gods and the time of Separation when the gods disappeared.
Mesopotamia was no exception. Though the Mesopotamian gods tried to extend the age of the gods, their scheme was foiled by a single king.
A king created to bind man and god together. A hybrid of god and man. A man expected to be the linchpin of heaven.
...The Hero-King Gilgamesh.
Against all odds, he chose the exact opposite path from the one laid out for him by the gods. It was humanity's graduation.
Due to his defiance, the gods gradually lost their power, and disappeared from the face of the earth.
By the time you're in now, they're already gone. Their roles fulfilled, they faded from this world.
They exist only as hollow divine spirits, watching over the world from another, higher dimension. Or at least, that's the going theory.
The chief gods must have left behind some vestiges of their existence.
But after a thousand years, even those will fade completely, until ultimately people recognize them only as "legends."
That's why I'd thought you'd never meet any "living" gods, but...
Looking at the data from earlier, the goddess Ishtar looks to have a spiritual foundation infinitely close to the "original."
...Divine "authority" is a mystery that surpasses sorcery. You'd be right to call it a manifestation of the All-Knowing and Almighty.
Though it's still not clear exactly what the "threat" to that era is, the goddesses are undeniably your enemies.Her Sumerian divine name is Inanna, and this name is actually the older one. Ishtar is her Akkadian divine name.シュメル神名ではイナンナといい、名としてはこちらの方が古い。イシュタルはアッカド神名。
金星の女神であり、人に繁栄をもたらす豊穣を司る女神であり、戦いと破壊を司る女神でもあり、 『天の牡牛』 という恐るべき神獣をウルク市へ送り込んだ、とにかく傍迷惑な女神。
A goddess of Venus, a goddess that rules over good harvests which brings prosperity to people and also a goddess that rules war and destruction. Having even dispatched a fearsome divine beast called “Bull of Heavens” to the city of Uruk; at any rate, goddess who is a nuisance to others.lol『山脈震撼す明星の薪』
ランク：Ａ＋＋ 種別：対山宝具
さんみゃくふるわす みょうじょうのまき。
アンガルタ・キガルシュ。
シュメル神話においてイシュタルが行った最も
「破壊的で」「残忍な」行為―――
神々の王さえ恐れ、敬った霊峰エビフ山を
“ただ気にくわないから”と蹂躙し、死滅させた
逸話を宝具にしたもの。
メソポタミア神話曰く、イシュタルはエビフ山に
分け入り、一歩ごとにその神威を増し、最後には
山脈の頂を鷲づかみにし、その地脈の心臓部に
槍を突き刺し、エビフ山脈を崩壊させたという。
この逸話を元に、宝具使用の際は金星にワープ、
管理者権限で金星の概念を手中に収め、
概念惑星としてマアンナの弾倉に詰めて放つ、
という神をも恐れぬ行為をやってのける。
またの名をジュベル・ハムリン・ブレイカー。
warp to venus
then take the concept and fire the concept of an entire planet
only A++ anti mountain
hohohohohohohohohohohohohohoBecause Chris wanted it
Spoiler:Authority of the Beast: A
Anti-humanity skill. It allows her to demonstrate extra damage against anything born from her womb, be it heroic spirit, divine spirit, whatever. This isn't bestowed just to the main body of the Beast II, but to all monsters born from her.
Independent Manifestation: B
The skill of appearing in the material plane by oneself. Once she appears, she will paint over the Indian Ocean in a span of seven days. When she manifests, she will continue to produce monsters without rest which will devour humanity. However, her main body cannot embark on land. The job of exterminating humanity is left to her children. Furthermore, this skill demonstrates her nature of already existing across all of time and space, so it is not just able to cancel attacks via time paradoxes using time travel, but cancel out all forms of instant death attacks.
Self-modification Ex:
She uses the black sea of life to remake her spiritual foundation. She is able to grow from her normal state (femme fatale) to a dragonoid form of over 60 meters in length. Tiamat in her dragonoid body cancels out all attacks of rank A++ and below
Sea of Life: EX
The Beast II is the sea of life itself. As she is circulating the True Ether of Genesis, unlimited magical energy is being supplied in her ocean. Those who are captured by the black mud and sink into the sea will receive at random skills like Self-Modification, Bio-transformation, Bio-merging, Self-replication. When they leave the sea, they will be subjected to a geas on the cellular level with the Beast II (an amino-geass) and automatically be turned into an enemy of humanity
Nega Genesis: A
The same type of skill as the Nega Messiah of the Beast VI
A conceptual bounded barrier able to subvert the modern theory of evolution, prediction of Genesis. Having this, the Beast II gains strong resistance against the Noble Phantasms of Servants born from proper human history.
Monstrous Strength: A++
Power as a monster. This increases her own strength. Virtually of the highest level. With the black mud as her body and the form of a dragon, Tiamat’s strength is that of a giant.
<deadfish> tiamat is a primordial god
<deadfish> so she'd be on a higher level than the other oneOn this 人類悪 stuff
Spoiler:Gilgamesh: Now, Merlin truly did say “evil of humanity”?
Mashu: Yes he did. He said the King of Magic awoke one of the seven evils of humanity.
Mashu: I beg your pardon, King Gilgamesh, but what are the evils of humanity?
Gilgamesh: What, have you not found out yet? I thought you already discovered what they were in your quest.
Gilgamesh: The evils of humanity are blights of humanity; they refer to the many disasters that would destroy humanity.
Gilgamesh: They become stronger the more humanity advances, like cancer eating human society from the inside.
Gilgamesh: They are backwater residing in human history, to be frank.
Da Vinci: Do you mean something looking for vengeance like the Gorgon? Something that will destroy humanity with enmity?
Gilgamesh: It’s the opposite, o fair one.
The evils of humanity are not the evils that will destroy humanity.
Gilgamesh: They are the evils that humanity are to destroy.
Mashu: The evils that humanity are to destroy?
Gilgamesh: Yes, hm. You should ask for an explanation from one suited for it.
Gilgamesh: For now, just remember that they are disasters that threaten human history: the self-destruct mechanism and fail-safe system in humanity that were the basis for heroic spirit summoning.
Gilgamesh: The seven evils of humanities. They too manifest as spiritual foundations, as seven disasters born by the beastly nature of humanity.
Gilgamesh: In other words, Class Beast. What the King of Magic awoke was such a beast.
Ishtar: Hold on. The primordial sea is supposed to be Mother.
Ishtar: Isn’t this anomaly supposed to be the work of the goddess Tiamat?
Gilgamesh: Fool. I am saying that Tiamat is the Beast. The foe we face is a legitimate and true god of primordial earth.
Spoiler:A womb that had been cut away and discarded after Genesis.
As the mother sea, she had been used as the soil for creating life, but when the environment of the Earth became stable and ecosystems came to be, she was no necessary and was exiled to the world of imaginary numbers (the other side of the world; not even a parallel world, but a lifeless space of imaginary numbers)
Once ecosystems had arisen, there was no need for a being who designed lifeforms randomly. In the process by which lifeforms gain intelligence appropriate for this planet, she was nothing but an obstacle. Since then, Tiamat waited in the world of imaginary numbers for the chance to return to Earth.
Quetz addressing Tiamat as "the primordial sea which weaved the basis of us humans"
Emphasis on the "humans" part.Some kind of dream sequence
Spoiler:
???: ---n’t go---
???: ---Don’t go---
??? .---n’t leave me---
??? ---Don’t leave me---
???: ---Don’t leave me behind again---
è This is…
???: Come back…come back…
Come back to me once more…
??? Once more…once more…
??? No….no…
???: Don’t, don’t ever
???: Don’t love me again
è What was that?
??? It was an original sin. It was one of humanity’s original sins.
???: There are many types of sins. Tricking others. Manipulating others. Being envious of others. Taking lives.
???: All these are the evils that only humanity bears. All these are the poisons that affect only humanity.
???: However, among them is the oldest of evils. The original sin II. The sin of leaving ■ and departing from paradise.
è Yes, but even so…
??? Life was born from the sea. The primordial sea Nammu. The goddess of the beginning Nammu.
???: To humanity, the goddess is the sea itself. The sound of the waves will become calls pronouncing your sin
???: Remember. Don’t forget.
???: This voice is your original sin.
???: This name is your salvation.
???: Its name is
??? Aa, Aa-----Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa----
è It sounds so sad…
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
enough with the aliens lel<deadfish> the mesoamerican pantheon are aliens sort of
<deadfish> some asteroid hit the earth, and something in it infected the plants in the area and managed to survive and eventually became microorganisms which turned the local animals into "gods"
<deadfish> so divinity in south america is passed on from human to human
Spoiler:
<deadfish>regression to the age of gods....up to the jurassic erathe last part has more than that.Merlin says that Gods that care about mankind are suffering from bugs in their programming. The proper gods with only one function (god of war, god of death, etc.) don't care about humans, but the ones with multiple functions tend to love mankind, and he says this is not natural for them and probably caused by how having to handle so many different roles messes them up.
Basically gods who have more than one function are at the risk of a "logic error."
The example given is Ishtar being a god of war and also a god of love.
Because she has these two roles she will kill all those those she loves, that's the risk of have a god with too many function. They end up mixing with each other.>Artemis recognises Altera as "the enemy"
Point out what's missing/wrong so it'll be added.
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