Zero Fun thread

[Kirby]

I liked Gargantia more as a fish-out-of-water SoL than what it ended up turning into in the end :\

[castor212]

It's been a while since I've read Zero, tbh, so I don't think I could immediately cite a passage, but the various ways that Sola and Iri and Maiya felt 'love' spring to mind - I recall it always being described very distantly and without anything that made it feel real, despite how key to their characters it was. For that matter, Kotomine is another standout, now I think about it: to me, Nasu did far more in one scene of HF to make his situation feel resonant and poignant than Urobuchi managed with four volumes, while he's actually in the midst of trying to resolve his crisis.

what about Lancelot
pure curiosity on why you dislike the way he is handled
disclaimer: i grewup on the environment that is pretty scarce in terms of medieval stuffs like king arthur's legend

[Trubo]

Lancelot didn't really have much beyond AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRTHUR. His final fight against Saber is the only time I remember we got something other than that.

As for why I didn't like Zero much, it's hard to get invested in most of the characters that you already know don't matter in the long run. Waver was the one I enjoyed the most.

[Marmadillo]

I dont know about mattering in the long run. F/z works as a self-contained story, which is one of things I can praise without any caveats.

[Rafflesiac]

I quite enjoyed Zero, both anime and LN; the Banquet of Kings is still one of my favorite episodes in anime for how well everything comes together to establish Iskandar's position and how badly his justified confidence in himself shakes Saber's.

Also Fate/Zero and Madoka are really not similar to Thunderbolt Fantasy.

[Sesto]

Zero is good.

[Altaris]

I like Lancelot and Diarmuid the least out of all Zero servants because they feel way too melodramatic with their shit than i could stand for. Diarmuid gets screwed quite a lot so I can somewhat forgive, but Lancelot is way too emo for me, especially after reading his piece in Garden of Avalon.

Of the knight Agravainn is actually the one I relate to the most

[Polly]

I like Zero because I get seriously turned on by blonde girls in suits. And girls in suits in general. And motorbikes.

A blonde girl in a suit riding a motorbike? Instant like

[Seika]

what about Lancelot
pure curiosity on why you dislike the way he is handled
disclaimer: i grewup on the environment that is pretty scarce in terms of medieval stuffs like king arthur's legend

Partly it's that I just got the impression Gen was sucking Lance's dick as hard as he could, which I found deeply annoying.

Outside of that - or, not exactly outside that, because it plays into the impression too - the most concrete offence to me is Eternal Arms Mastery. You know how Nasu always always always sets up rules so he can break them for effect? EAM felt like an awful, feeble, misguided attempt on Urobuchi's part to do that. It gets no build-up, resultantly has no impact on the reader when it's revealed, could honestly just have been cut with barely a change, and yet it's an appallingly unsubtle, block undoing of the major +power -finesse conceit of Berserker class, which casts its shadow to this day. It's another of my prime examples of how Urobuchi fails to write a Nasuverse story in Zero. (Also, really, if Lance gets it, Herakles certainly should have had it in the first place too, so it's silly from that perspective as well - and I don't advocate Herk getting it either).

[aldeayeah]

I don't hate Zero, I just like FSN heaps more.

I find that Zero lacks some of the qualities that make the core Nasuverse stories endearing (to me).

[castor212]

Partly it's that I just got the impression Gen was sucking Lance's dick as hard as he could, which I found deeply annoying.

Outside of that - or, not exactly outside that, because it plays into the impression too - the most concrete offence to me is Eternal Arms Mastery. You know how Nasu always always always sets up rules so he can break them for effect? EAM felt like an awful, feeble, misguided attempt on Urobuchi's part to do that. It gets no build-up, resultantly has no impact on the reader when it's revealed, could honestly just have been cut with barely a change, and yet it's an appallingly unsubtle, block undoing of the major +power -finesse conceit of Berserker class, which casts its shadow to this day. It's another of my prime examples of how Urobuchi fails to write a Nasuverse story in Zero. (Also, really, if Lance gets it, Herakles certainly should have had it in the first place too, so it's silly from that perspective as well - and I don't advocate Herk getting it either).

Hmm, I see.

Would it change anything were, say, EAM got proper build up and proper (?) story integration, on the whole?

[RoydGolden]

Partly it's that I just got the impression Gen was sucking Lance's dick as hard as he could, which I found deeply annoying.

Outside of that - or, not exactly outside that, because it plays into the impression too - the most concrete offence to me is Eternal Arms Mastery. You know how Nasu always always always sets up rules so he can break them for effect? EAM felt like an awful, feeble, misguided attempt on Urobuchi's part to do that. It gets no build-up, resultantly has no impact on the reader when it's revealed, could honestly just have been cut with barely a change, and yet it's an appallingly unsubtle, block undoing of the major +power -finesse conceit of Berserker class, which casts its shadow to this day. It's another of my prime examples of how Urobuchi fails to write a Nasuverse story in Zero. (Also, really, if Lance gets it, Herakles certainly should have had it in the first place too, so it's silly from that perspective as well - and I don't advocate Herk getting it either).

I'd contest that Eternal Arms Mastery was really as irrelevant as you claim. It's pretty much the only reason he can use any of the weapons hijacked through Knight Of Owner with any remote degree of finesse. We certainly couldn't have had the whole crazy jet dog-fight without it, which was probably one of the best scenes in the whole thing.

On why Lancelot has it and not Herc... that's admittedly a bit trickier. Maybe Herc, though the greatest hero of his era, wasn't the greatest swordfighter like Lancelot (supposedly) was?

[Seika]

Would it change anything were, say, EAM got proper build up and proper (?) story integration, on the whole?

It'd help, certainly, though I'd hardly be a convert to liking Zero just because of the one change.

[Raylen Cypher]

I just loathe the walking carcass that created it, OP.

[castor212]

I just loathe the walking carcass that created it, OP.

butdoes the thing that the carcass creates also enter the realm of hatred?

[Raylen Cypher]

butdoes the thing that the carcass creates also enter the realm of hatred?

...Yes, I do hate him. On the grounds that his personal providence taints any works that he creates.

[castor212]

It'd help, certainly, though I'd hardly be a convert to liking Zero just because of the one change.

no, not zero but lance himself, cuz from what i understand your disliking of Zero comes to the fundamental writing itself which i understand

im just trying to wrap my head about Lancelot dicksucking, because, and this is just my general impression, he actually felt kinda shafted in terms of fleshing out the character due to not much showtime? sort of

[Raylen Cypher]

Oh, you're talking about this work specifically? I actually don't really feel much for it because it's a prequel. Of course, it is what it is because it takes place in the past so it was expected.

[castor212]

...Yes, I do hate him. On the grounds that his personal providence taints any works that he creates.

interesting. can you elaborate?

[Iceblade44]

Partly it's that I just got the impression Gen was sucking Lance's dick as hard as he could, which I found deeply annoying.

Outside of that - or, not exactly outside that, because it plays into the impression too - the most concrete offence to me is Eternal Arms Mastery. You know how Nasu always always always sets up rules so he can break them for effect? EAM felt like an awful, feeble, misguided attempt on Urobuchi's part to do that. It gets no build-up, resultantly has no impact on the reader when it's revealed, could honestly just have been cut with barely a change, and yet it's an appallingly unsubtle, block undoing of the major +power -finesse conceit of Berserker class, which casts its shadow to this day. It's another of my prime examples of how Urobuchi fails to write a Nasuverse story in Zero. (Also, really, if Lance gets it, Herakles certainly should have had it in the first place too, so it's silly from that perspective as well - and I don't advocate Herk getting it either).

I'd contest that Eternal Arms Mastery was really as irrelevant as you claim. It's pretty much the only reason he can use any of the weapons hijacked through Knight Of Owner with any remote degree of finesse. We certainly couldn't have had the whole crazy jet dog-fight without it, which was probably one of the best scenes in the whole thing.

On why Lancelot has it and not Herc... that's admittedly a bit trickier. Maybe Herc, though the greatest hero of his era, wasn't the greatest swordfighter like Lancelot (supposedly) was?

I Don't think EAM is that far-fetched, considering its just supernatural muscle memory. I agree with Royd that its main purpose was to give reason for his Noble Phantasm, and also to act as a foil on how Herk vs Gil fight played out in SN, or thats what I think at least.

Also to answer your question Royd in Athurian stories the reason why Lancelot has isn't because he's a master swordsmen but because he's a master EVERYTHING, are you amazing at the sword? Lancelot's better than you. Are you the greatest jouster in the realm? Lancelot's better than you. Are you supreme ladykiller known by all? Lancelot's better than you. No matter how much you were praised in the stories, Lancelot was just praised more.