The contrast between Fate Zero and Fate Stay Night.

[enotita]

Well yeah, I noticed her getting slapped around by the other by the other servants, but her character tho...

[Rafflesiac]

something something honor stuff with diarmuid makes her look stupid something something she's totes the best king something something she should've save iri from kerry and driven off into the sunset

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Is about all I recall from the usual arguments.

[Imperial]

They're mad that Kerry bullied her for her chivalry and most of the other Servants backed her into a corner at one point or another, making her look weak.

This is drastically different from Shirou bullying her for her wish and most of the other Servants backing her into a corner at one point or another, making her look weak.

[RacingeR]

You know, I see alot of people say that Fate Zero ruined Saber's character, how's that?

I wouldn't go as far as saying that her character was ruined, but she was heavily mishandled. Banquet of the Kings being very badly executed is probably the biggest example I can think of, but in general it felt like Uro didn't know what to do with her.

tbf I always found Zero's character writing to be rather weak overall, so its just a part of my issue with it.

[Bloble]

Zero is simultaneously better and worse than people think it is, but it still pales in comparison to /Stay Night.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Zero is simultaneously better and worse than people think it is

Yeah. I always feel like people praise its terrible parts and disparage its good parts. It's weird.

[Rafflesiac]

The Banquet of Kings was great though; Saber's suffering was delicious.

[Imperial]

You mean the absolutely idiotic, out-of-place, groan-inducing dogfight between Gilgamesh's ancient superthing and Lancelot's edgy jet was not the height of "realistic" and "adult" storytelling that puts those "retarded babies" of Stay Night to shame?

[TheSeaDragon]

Zero is simultaneously better and worse than people think it is, but it still pales in comparison to /Stay Night.

exactly

[GhostDIGIT]

You mean the absolutely idiotic, out-of-place, groan-inducing dogfight between Gilgamesh's ancient superthing and Lancelot's edgy jet was not the height of "realistic" and "adult" storytelling that puts those "retarded babies" of Stay Night to shame?

My god, I forgot about that. Remember Lancelot's sub-machine guns? Those were a thing.

[enotita]

You mean the absolutely idiotic, out-of-place, groan-inducing dogfight between Gilgamesh's ancient superthing and Lancelot's edgy jet was not the height of "realistic" and "adult" storytelling that puts those "retarded babies" of Stay Night to shame?

Really? I mean yeah, it was out of nowhere sure, but it was pretty badass and awesome.

[TheSeaDragon]

I already said it, but one thing that really bothers me about Zero is the treatment of female characters. Come on , im not a Zero hater per se, and im really far of a SJW or a trhird wave feminist, or whatever, but Uroboichi didnt even tried. Iri is the only decent one i can think of and she is still very dependant of Kiritsugu as character. Besides the ones he was forced to use, Saber and Iri, because even if she was given name and characterizacion, Illyas mother was still mandatory, Uro didnt even bothered to create female servants or masters. I will not call something like Hassan a proper female servant and the besides Iri, the closest thing to a female master was Sola , and she is the polar opposite of how you do a strong female, lol, and she was not the true master, anyways.
Typical sexism accusations against Fate Shirou aside, SN is really better in that apartament
Oh and speakin about Saber, you have the heroine of the source material being constantly bullied, and a big hairy macho guy thelling her how it is to be a king, and we are supossed to agree witn him.

[Sesto]

Zero is pretty decent. Stay Night is still better, though.

That said, I dislike hearing about how shitty Zero apparently is as much as I dislike hearing about how mature it apparently is. However, more than anything, I dislike seeing the same arguments retreaded over and over again. The actual truth is that Zero and Stay Night are both quite shit. Grand Order saved the franchise; there's no need to talk about those piles of trash anymore.

[Rafflesiac]

ssr shirou when

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inb4 lzo

[Spartacus]

Grand Order saved the franchise; there's no need to talk about those piles of trash anymore.

The real reason Seibah got bullied by OP plot NPs is because she didn't bring her NP draining water gun.

[Imperial]

The sub-machine guns struck me a logical extension of my-Noble-Phantasm-is-everything, and that idea had the decency not to overstay its welcome. They're discarded for a weapon more appropriate for a Heroic Spirit.

The dogfight is the absolute nadir of Zero.

[LJ3]

The dog fight was shit??

[Nobody]

ssr shirou when

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inb4 lzo

For the love of god, no.

SR only.

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The dog fight was shit??

Also yeah this is my first time hearing this.

[Magikewl]

SSR Limited Shirou is the only way to go

[Nobody]

SSR Limited Shirou is the only way to go

Have mercy on my wallet.